More breathing woes ...

[notpoodle]

(hope im not boring you to tears by now).

pony is still weezy/breathing hard :(

so far we had ...

2 weeks on ventipulmin (which worked a bit, but not *that* well(

and

a blood test which, according to the vet, came back 'fine', ie not anaemic, no infection, no allergy stuff

vet doesnt think its her heart either

still, she is NOT coughing and has no nasal discharge.

all very strange :rolleyes:

i have since also enlisted the help of an equine herbologist back home (over the phone ...) and shall be receiving some tailored breathing herbs (with err icelandic moss ... the mind boggles)

anyone got any thoughts on this?

Julia
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[notpoodle]

uhm, anyone?

[LMS]

Did anyone have any suggestions as to what may have caused the breathing problems?

I had a horse that had asthma & to kick start the treatment with ventipulmen, we administered prednisone intramuscularly for a few days.

But not having had a horse with breathing problems now for almost 10yrs, I don't know what to suggest. I know of some people who use Zev and there's also Predef. But I don't know what's available where you are.

Are you wetting your horse's food? If he's stabled, it's also a good idea to sprinkle water on the floors & shavings to keep the dust down.

Are there birds nearby? Some horses are bothered by chickens, pigeons etc

And your vet doesn't have any suggestions other than ventipulmen? How frustrating! Can you get another vet's oppinion? When I'm frustrated with my vet, I push the envelope & bombard him with questions (after I research it of course so that I have more questions when he tries to placate me with a generic answer). I'm sure he gets annoyed but at least he gets the answers for me (he's often had to call for advice from the 2 hospital universities) probably so that I'll leave him alone.

That or he passes the case over to his partner who has no bed side manners! Then the sparks fly!!!:rolleyes: :D

[notpoodle]

shes not stabled at all at the moment, but lives out 24/7. her feed is always dampened down (she likes it, er, soupy, anyway). i suppose i could get another vet next time (am with a big practice ie lots of vets), but im a bit worried he'd just launch into a series of very pricey tests which won't have an outcome either :rolleyes:

she was quite puffed out today, althought she had done b*ger all :rolleyes:

i hope these herbs will work at least a little bit, i don't like seeing my pony all huffy and puffy :( (apart from that, friends assure me she is looking fabulous, shiny, not too podgy etc)

Julia
x

ps: there are birds nearby (pidgeons, crows and some chickens on the other side of the farm which i have never actually seen), but we've been at ther farm for almost a year now and she hasnt had any touble with the, er, local 'wildlife' before

[notpoodle]

anyone else got any thoughts on this? it's doing my head in :o if its not dustrelated, if its not an allergy, if its not an infection .... what the hell could it be?!

Julia
x

[FudgieFoo]

Firstly is she overweight?

Its been quite hot the last few days. Does it improve on cooler days?

Which vets do you use? (I'm in the uxbridge/hemel hempstead area of London)

Is it worse in the summer or winter? (eg. has it only started recently)

[Sooty]

removed as posted in the wrong place - sorry!

[nutkin]

we have a couple of horses at our yard who suffer badly from wheezing problems.They are both fed No Wheeze and it works wonders for both of them.

[FudgieFoo]

I've used Easy Breathing and it seems to work a wonder. My mare has COPD and she doesn't cough when worked with Easy breathing.

I'm thinking along the line of pollen reaction. Except that hes been tested for allergies.

[notpoodle]

she is not overweight.shes been on airways plus over the winter and up until the ventipulmin started. she now refuses to eat the airways plus though (dont blame her, it smells like paint stripper ...). shes weezy when its not hot as well unfortunately :(

and for the n-th time .... She is NOT coughing!

@ fudgiefoo: im with the Royal Vets College (of err Supervets fame!)

Julia
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[notpoodle]

she is not overweight.shes been on airways plus over the winter and up until the ventipulmin started. she now refuses to eat the airways plus though (dont blame her, it smells like paint stripper ...). shes weezy when its not hot as well unfortunately :(

and for the n-th time .... She is NOT coughing!

@ fudgiefoo: im with the Royal Vets College (of err Supervets fame!)

Julia
x

[nutkin]

What did the bloods test for allergies test? It is possible that there is something she is allergic to that they didn't test.Being asthmatic myself I know that when they spray the fields nearby to my horse my chest gets worse.Is this a possibility?

[notpoodle]

no idea how they tested. i was only told the outcome of 'no allergies, not anaemic, not an infection' (dont you love vets ....). thing is, shes been in the same square mile for two years now and was never weezy in the summer (we're not in a rural area, so any spraying would be very close by) before.

Julia
x

[FudgieFoo]

So your getting the best care then!

I get referred there when my vets can't work out whats wrong.

Where do you keep her?

Try a liquid base supplement? I know Easy Breathing (NAF) comes in liquid form.

And what do your vets think on it being pollen related? Did they rule that out with the allergy tests?

[notpoodle]

shes in north london (green belt!) and out 24/7 with 5 other mares at the moment. ive since ordered a german breathing supplement in pellet form that is proven to have an effect .... should arrive soon, its worth a try.

vet has now decided he didnt think its pollen related, seeing she wasnt much better when it was raining all the time.

argh!

Julia
x

[FudgieFoo]

Hopeless! Sometimes I wonder why we spend the money on vets......... peace of mind I guess!

The new supplement sounds good. Maybe try resting her till she's been on it a week, let her live out and just check on her. Then once she's been on it a week start with some light work. Keep a diary of the symptoms now, once shes on the supplement and when she starts working again (to allow you to compare now to the past.)

Don't forget it can take up to 3 months to see an effect.

Don't change anything else in this time otherwise you wont know what effect the supplement is having.

Good luck!

[notpoodle]

yep, such was my plan. she'll be out out out though, with light work (ie 10 min plods in walk) as vet said i should exercise her very gently (the fact she is not err very fit at the moment doesnt help!).

Julia

[Sooty]

oops - really sorry notpoodle :eek: my post was supposed to have been a new thread - didn't realise I was still in yours! It was only when I went back to find it that I realised .... will go and remove it and post elsewhere! Yes I know your girl isn't coughing :o

[Jessey]

Could it just be that she is very unfit? you don't have to be fat to be unfit ;)

TBH if there was nothing in the bloods and nothing in her enviroment seems to be effecting her (I assume you have tried the normal change bedding/feed etc) I would be looking to get her lungs scoped to see if there is anything visable going on down there.

J x

[notpoodle]

she is quite unfit but not that unfit. she did go out most days in the winter so was moving about and stuff.

thought about the lung scoping thing ... unless vet insists, i'd rather not because i am not really in a position to afford that unless it really is neccessary. sorry that sounds terrible, but i am not rockefeller :( sadly.

Julia
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[teabiscuit]

no it doesn't sound terrible, you could have her scoped, pay the bill, have to deal with a distressed horse (from the scope) and still be no nearer finding out whats going on-this is one of those difficult decisions that only the owner can decide in my experience.
hope Angel starts to improve soon
xx

[Jessey]

I know what you mean about paying for it, is she insured, would they cover an investigation?

Just a thought, my friend has a young mare who has a partially paralised larynix, she is what they used to call a roarer, shows no distress at all and is perfectly healthy but wheezes all the time, perhaps your mare has developed something like that?

On my old loan horse I used the NAF DTox supplement occasionally, that really did seem to make his breathing easier when it got really bad.

Best of luck

J x

[notpoodle]

how do they get a partially paralyzed larynx?! is that something theyre born with?

Julia

ps: i had thought of some sort of 'defect' since she isnt coughing or snotty or anything ....

[FudgieFoo]

If your insurance covers it it may be worth a try. Least then your have some answers?

[carrieh]

We had a mare scoped today because of breathing problems. She's the ID mare belonging to a friend of mine, but because my friend is a schoolteacher and therefore at work, I coped with horse/vet/scope! The vet is a lovely man and gave the mare a sedative first, then had a thorough investigation of her airways through the scope. I was all of a quiver as he asked me to push or pull the tube according to his instructions whilst he looked at the pictures [!] but we managed. I have to say the mare was a love through all of this, and just went back to grazing when the sedative wore off after the vet had gone.

He put some sterile saline down the tube and then drew it back off again, to send off to the lab for tests. It was a very cloudy colour, certainly not right, with little bits floating in it. And when he showed me the pictures down inside her airway, it was definately pretty horrible. He said he thought she had a secondary infection on top of a primary condition, and that the primary condition was probably asthma rather than COPD, and not in any way dust-related. The mare lives out 24/7 all year round. The vet said he thought the asthma was being caused by an allergy to something in the air or plants in the field or even being near the airport. We'll know more when the lab results are back. Her larynx itself was fine, totally clear. The problem was further down the airway.

However, she WAS coughing, although not a great deal. Mostly she was heaving, even at rest. My friend had her on Airway Plus for the last couple of months and it did seem to help a little, but obviously not enough.

As with a human I suppose, it's so hard to find out what they are allergic to. I hope you can find some answers Notpoodle.

[notpoodle]

ddid your friend do anything else to get her better or is she still heaving? could the vet do anyting about the allergy?

unfortunately, mine stopped eating the airways plus :rolleyes: i started her on some other herbs (got those from germany ...) today which she gobbled down ... hopefully that helps a bit!

[carrieh]

ddid your friend do anything else to get her better or is she still heaving? could the vet do anyting about the allergy?

unfortunately, mine stopped eating the airways plus :rolleyes: i started her on some other herbs (got those from germany ...) today which she gobbled down ... hopefully that helps a bit!


The mare is still heaving, although not as bad as she was. We are waiting for the results of the tests on her scope, so I'll post here when I know more. The vet said probably about a week for the test results to come through, then he should know more about how to treat her. But it's likely she will need an inhaler.

He said it wasn't a dust allergy, it was an 'outdoors' allergy, something in the air, plants, maybe even the fallout from the jet fuel at the nearby airport.

[notpoodle]

please keep us posted, i'd be very interested to see what comes out of the scoping :)

can they suddenly develop an outdoors allergy?


Julia
x

[Jessey]

Notpoodle, I have known the larynx problem to be both from birth and developed, its what they used to call 'broken wind', race horses often get it as they are running at peak all the time (don't know why but over exertion can cause it) and some horses just always seem to have had the problem.

There is a way to deal with it surgicaly, its called a tie back operation and they basically secure the flappy bit back out of the way to clear the airway, but it is not nec. to have it done if they are not doing hard work, it causes no pain or discomfort and most compete at lower levels with it fine.

J x

[notpoodle]

hehe my pony's never done a day's hard work in her life :D

i did some digging on larynx stuff ... i dont think it's that, she's not making funny noises when worked and her er vocal chords seem to be doing fine (she whinnies quite a lot at the moment ...)

Juila
x

[k8schmutz]

Good to see you and Angel the other day! Sorry to hear you're still having problems, if you get the vet out again ask for Duncan. He's really lovely and explains everything he's doing/thinking really clearly unlike others I've had.

[notpoodle]

yeah, i heard that as well. am just a bit worried that a different vet is going to start the whole pointless rigmarole (lets try this, lets try that, no idea etc) all over again.

good to see you, too btw! and errr let's never attempt to longrein the beastie again, haha :)

Julia
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[Jessey]

you can get different degrees of paralysation, my friends mare is absolutely fine in every way apart from you can hear her breath/wheeze when she does anything more than a walk :D

[k8schmutz]

Good idea! You'll have to come have a go with Lulu, she doesn't try to follow you around :D
When Lulu had her colic thingy I had Jason out the first time and then had Duncan the second. No conflicts regarding anything and he was much better overall.