Underweight?

[Rarah]

Not sure if my girl is slightly underweight. (Not sure if you can tell from a pic either, but here goes!)

You can feel her ribs without pressing - but everyone else I've asked (fairly inexperienced people) seem to think she's OK.

Here's a couple of pics

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d151/gokartbandit/03-06-06_1622.jpg

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d151/gokartbandit/03-06-06_1309.jpg

There's hardly any grazing at my farm. I thought this would be a good thing - I thought Logic would be prone to being a bit of a tubby monster but she seems to be starving (or am I just being a softie mum?)


ETA - she's a 6 yr old clydesdale x

[LMS]

You can see a few ribs but she's still in the acceptable weight range because she is still quite fleshy in the rump, withers & neck area.

She could probably use an extra 100lbs but I wouldn't worry too much at this point. She looks fine. On the other hand though; I wouldn't want to see her loose any more weight because she is of a heavier breed type.

You have a very pretty mare:)

[bexj]

Loving Logic:D :D

I'd say she is ok too, this time of year when the grass is full of sugars and growing like crazy will soon put some weight on her, and you don't want her too fat at the moment. She is nicely covered - you can just feel/see her ribs, which is fine, her bum is gorgeous and doesn't show her hip bones, neither is it like a big fat apple:D

More pics please......:p

[domane]

Well, I'm no expert but she looks a little underweight to me... her neck is quite thin too but this could be because she is stretched out in the piccy, or it might just need some muscle? What sort of work has she been doing? She clearly has a large slice of Clyde in her and I would think she a few extra pounds would do her no harm. I certainly wouldn't want her to lose anymore.

Pink's Lady is good with conformation and weight issues... ;)

But that aside, her coat looks lovely and shiny and LOOK AT THOSE LOVELY WHITE FEATHERS!!!! :eek: :D How do you manage that??? What's your secret? Cherry's look "clean" but never Persil-white.... c'mon, 'fess up? How'dya do it???? :confused: :D

[Rarah]

......I wouldn't want to see her loose any more weight because she is of a heavier breed type.


This is what worries me. We don't have any grass. The field is bare!!!:eek:

I kept my part-loan horse on this farm last year and the lack of grazing wasn't a problem because he was prone to gaining weight.

Her saddle (which is supposed to be a good fit I'm told) seems to be too wide for her so have been riding her with a riser pad and her girth was too lose until I added the riser pad. Don't want her to lose more.

When I went to the local tack shop last weekend to buy some hard feed, the shop owner told me they don't stock hard feeds this time of year because most people just rely on grass. I am feeding her horse and pony cubes - about the equivalent of 1½ pints (if you visualise that volume) plus carrots and apples. She's gone through a bale of hay this week whilst she's been in (but she's out most of the time).

[Rarah]

But that aside, her coat looks lovely and shiny and LOOK AT THOSE LOVELY WHITE FEATHERS!!!! :eek: :D How do you manage that??? What's your secret? Cherry's look "clean" but never Persil-white.... c'mon, 'fess up? How'dya do it???? :confused: :D


:D :D :D It took 5 people about an hour to scrub her clean yesterday !!!

.... and we were still put to shame when we went to a show today. Some of the horses there looked like they'd been painted with tippex - you needed sunglasses on if you wanted to look at them :cool:


Oh - I might add her neck dosn't normally look like that. I think she was stretching her neck out - hoping for another carrot!

[domane]

If you are anything like me, you will resent turning her out after all that effort because you just KNOW she will find the muddiest spot and wreck all that hard work in about five minutes flat!!!! :mad:

GRRRR!!!! :D

[vjoy23]

Sorry to say it but I would say she is underweight................... you shouldn't be able to see the ribs on a clydie and from the pic you most clearly can. She looks quite tucked up underneath and very little on her kneck.
Im sure alot of people have been in the same position and some time or another with not having much if any grass and it is a worrying time.
If it was mine that needed to have weight put on I'd give her adlib good quality hay and 2 or 3 smallish feeds a day.
I hope this hasn't offended anyone

[Pink's lady]

She is slightly on the thin side, but I won't worry. Pink looked like that a month ago, but has started to put a little weight on and is now perfect. She's now in electric fencing (much to her disgust ;)) to keep her at that weight and there is almost no grass in there.

She will be a good doer so you will always want her to be slightly lean.

You don't want her to loose any more weight, but you don't want to be put much more on either, maybe just a little.

She is however lacking muscle and that makes her look thinner. She ideal weight for a good-doer coming out of winter (so many a little thin 2months on) and for laminitics.

The grass is probably enough to maintain her, but not for her to put weight on (which is ideal for you, and makes you life SOOOOO much easier). SO - I'd start to feed her just a little and then cut it down again when she gets to the perfect weight - when you can still easily feel her ribs, but not see them quite so much.

I'm guessing she's getting fed nothing right now? If so, go and buy some Hi-FI orginal chaff (and a supplement to go with it) and give her a big round scoop of it daily. That should slowly put the weigth back on her. There is no urgency at all and you want her to gain over the next 4-6weeks. If she's already getting fed or LOOSING weight still, up it to Alfa-A.

She is NOT thin, just lean and with more work to build muscles, she's look lovely very quickly.

you shouldn't be able to see the ribs on a clydie

Actually, you should be able to see the ribs on any horse, regardless of breed, in certain lights. It's just most horses are over-weight;) But yes, Logic is slighly (only very slighly) too ribby

[love4horses]

My vet says that if you can see backbone all the way done the back line thin the are definitely under weight, regardless of fat rump or fat belly. I say she definitely could use weight. I don't necessarily agree with "all horses ribs should show". Now in Thoroughbreds, from a distance you should be able to see the ribs shine (that would most likely happen in sunshine), but when up close you can't really tell they have ribs showing. The way I've always heard from many articles, vets, etc. you shouldn't be able to see ribs badly, but they should be easily felt when you press your finger across the rib area. And if you can't feel their ribs at all... they are too fat!

I think she should gain some weight. Feed some grain and weight supplements if you get to worried... And instead of getting all of our opinions, Call your vet out and get theirs. They can definitely help you out!

[Rarah]

I'm guessing she's getting fed nothing right now? If so, go and buy some Hi-FI orginal chaff (and a supplement to go with it) and give her a big round scoop of it daily. That should slowly put the weigth back on her. There is no urgency at all and you want her to gain over the next 4-6weeks. If she's already getting fed or LOOSING weight still, up it to Alfa-A.


At the moment she has 1 feed a day - about 1½ pints (in volume) of horse & pony cubes plus hay whenever she's in. We've gone through a small bale of hay in a week - does that sound about right for this time of year?

She is losing weight, BUT she's only been with us a week, so might just due due to the stress of moving.

How's about the horse & pony cubes PLUS the Alfa-A?

[nat17]

She is very pretty, and very similar to Podge. :)

Personally, I would feed her some high fibre cubes 2 or 3 times a day with chaff ( Pref Hi Fi ). I would say 1/2 scoop of HF Cubes and a scoop of Hi Fi. Also give her as much hay as she wants whilst in once or twice a day. Just remember to introduce the feed slowly especially if she is a little unsettled with the move.

If I were you though I would call Dengies feed helpline, they can offer the best advice really.:)

[mogadoga]

I would say a little underweight, Baileys have a great feeding:weight ratio on their website which would be good. And i found dodson and horrell to be excellent when i got in touch. They didnt push their products. Bailically said what im feeding is ok and i could switch to {D&H} and still get the same from it.

[joey_olop]

I wouldnt say she was underweight more lacking in muscle tone. I have a horse like that(not as heavy) and he looked terrible a few weeks ago you couldnt see his ribs but his neck and bum were so scrawny!! His head looked too big for his body were his neck was so thin.

When I spoke to my instructor about he said it was the muscle he was lacking and not that he was underweight. He has since given us lots of excercises to do and he is looking lovely now.

Id say thats what up with yours. Either ask your instructor or vet see what they say.

[JOJOBA]

Not read all the replies but when I found her for you I thought undermuscled, rather than underweight.
We are just coming out of winter though.

xxx

[Kanuma]

I would say underweight. i dont like being able to see ribs on horses, but you should be able to feel them easily!!
I have a pony who lost 100lb in 2 weeks due to illness he looked scareily thin on his tummy and neck, he had ribs sticking out every where, but still had an apple bum.
Harvey my little welsh b always has a crest no matter how skinny he is.

[Casey76]

Another vote here for undermuscled not underweight. I think photos can be deceptive too, casting shadows in funny places. You can *only just* see her ribs.

I just about jumped up and down on Saturday when I saw Pintos ribs when he turned in a circle. He could still do with losing a bit more weight, but he is muscling up nicely with correct work.

Maybe I'm just used to seeing 'lean machine' horses over here though?

[Rarah]

Thanks for all the replies.

Will up the feed slightly as there is a serious lack of grass around here.

If she is undermuscled how do I go about building muscle up?

Before she came to me she was worked around 4 hours per day in a riding school on a weekend (both days). During the week she was out in the field,

Now that she's settled in and is making friends we will be working her up to an hour each evening during the week and upto a couple of hours on a weekend (prob just hacking on a weekend).

What can I do specifically to build muscle? Trotting up hills? Lungeing? Trotting poles in school? General schooling?

Thanks :)

[JOJOBA]

Lots of trotting up hills! Great for bottoms :p
A lot of it will come from being ridden regularly and cared for properly. And, hate to say it, but working hard! By that I dont mean working fast, you can keep her in walk for the whole time if you like, so long as she really lifts her back and uses her bum and stretches etc. I think she'll find that really tough going at first though so I wouldnt do it for long! :D
Hector was being ridden a lot when I bought him but was being cared for poorly and fed incorrectly. I only used him for lessons and Pony Club but the difference in him was immense, just from being looked after in a way that suited him better - hang on, I'll show you....
On arrival - had been ridden for an hour each day but fed badly, feet and teeth never checked and in tack that didnt fit.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/jojobapics/HECTOROLD1.jpg


After a couple of months -
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/jojobapics/oldpc1.jpg


After a year or so -
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/jojobapics/plait1.jpg


His current kind of build (fluctuates depending on time of year quite a bit)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/jojobapics/trot3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/jojobapics/summer1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/jojobapics/summerhec1.jpg


Have a feeling Logic will be similar.
His weight hasnt increased immensely, just shifted into more correct places :p
Sorry didnt mean to take over your thread, just trying to show what I mean.

xxx

[Pink's lady]

Hectors a good example of how lack of msucle can make a horse look scrawny and skinny. He's probably not carrying any more fat in the later pictures, but he's certainly more muscled.

Logic has a serious lack of muscle, but I think she is also slightly under-weight. Not hugely, but a little.

If she's still loosing weight on that feed (pony-nuts and hay) then you will need to up it a little. Get rid of the pony-nuts (there's not really much point to them;)) and put her onto alfa-A, probably 2large round scoops daily. The hay won't be nessersay in the field - although it's looking bare there will still be enough for her to be eating continuosly. Don't put her onto hard feed -she doesn't need it and it's a bit like giving someone under-weight a chippy ;) She's be much better off slowly putting weight back on with the Alfa-A, which is also high in protien, which will help whilst she builds muscle. It'll alos make her think she's getting fed more ;)

What can I do specifically to build muscle? Trotting up hills? Lungeing? Trotting poles in school? General schooling?

All of the above ;) JUst make sure she's working correctly at all times - so pushing from behind, with a nice head-carraige (i.e no giraffe or nose trailing on ground)

[jUmPingIsLifE]

well, she may be slightly underweight. her rump picture looks good though.

the rule of thumb is you should feel the ribs but not be able to see them when the horse is standing.
however, i would rather see a horse slightly underweight then overweight.
obviously you want to get the ideal weight though if you can get it. that isn't always easy with some horses.

[vjoy23]

Maybe I'm missing the point but surely a horse thats getting worked regularly needs more than a field with no grass!! At the moment I'm lucky we have plenty of grass but if I didn't I would be feeding hay adlib even just as a filler. One of ours came to us in a similar state and they are quite similar to urs being a stocky type.
I'm not trying to shoot anyone down but how can you build muscle when you're not feeding anything to give the horse energy? With ours I fed little and often with plenty of hay, the weight came on gradually and was then put on 2 small feeds a day minus the hay when there is grass. A young horse needs the right nutrition in order to grow properly and I do agree maybe you should speak to a nutritionist.
You have got alot of conflicting views on here and if I were you I should think I'd be confused as to who is right.
I'm sorry PINK I really don't agree with anything you've said and maybe you should do some research into the breed

[bexj]

Maybe I'm missing the point but surely a horse thats getting worked regularly needs more than a field with no grass!!

Thats why the majority of people on here, including Pinks Lady, suggests that Logic is fed Alfa-A to supplement her diet of grass, to build up her protein and also to build her muscle. ;)

I also own a hw cob, and she is in reasonable work (about the same as Logic will be getting - ie an hour or so schooling per day, plus longer faster hacks at the weekend) and she gets grass only during the day, and a haynet at night while she is stabled. She is not losing weight, but she is also not fat, like she was when we first got her. I don't want her getting fat again - its too dangerous.

[Rarah]

You have got alot of conflicting views on here and if I were you I should think I'd be confused as to who is right.
I'm sorry PINK I really don't agree with anything you've said and maybe you should do some research into the breed

Not confused at all VJoy, but thanks for your concern.

I think the overall consensus is that Logic is slightly underweight, but it's more due of a lack of muscle and that her feed should be increased as should her work.:)

Sarah
x

[Rarah]

Have a feeling Logic will be similar.
His weight hasnt increased immensely, just shifted into more correct places :p
Sorry didnt mean to take over your thread, just trying to show what I mean.

xxx

He looks like a completely different horse. In the first pic he looks so sad.

[becs]

Jojoba - now we see why you're called "Hector protector"! What a transformation. He now has curves in all the right places and looks more alert & happy.

This thread is quite an eye-opener for me - didn't realise what a huge difference muscle mass could make. Maybe my retired boys should do a bit more, to keep their figures, so to speak!

[Anna**]

I agree with most that yes very slightly underweight but mainly its lack of muscle which will take time and hard work ;) She looks like a lovely mare and I hope you have lots and lots of fun together.

[Kanuma]

to be honest. i dont think mucsle makes that much difference, you need energy and protien to convert into muscle anyway, and so more feed. My old retirees are not ribby. Niether of them have been ridden much in the last couple of years. Pride has been ridden most of all being a couple of times a week during summer and not over winter. Harvey hasnt been ridden for 2years now, except for one 8 year old child going for a walk on him once. Neither have good muscle tone, but you cant see thier ribs and you can just feel their ribs. both are out 24/7 on good grazeing and weve never had to worry about lammi even though harvey was prone to it. I personaly would rather see one slightly overweight then underweight as i find it easier to get weight off them then put it on, but i hate seeing FAT horses. Harvey as problems eating, i would suggest splitting your feeds into smaller amounts.

[Pink's lady]

You have got alot of conflicting views on here and if I were you I should think I'd be confused as to who is right.

The only ones who' saying anything different is you :confused: Everyone else thinks she's a little under-weight but mostly needs to muscle up. Which means more food, but certainly not hard-feed. Alfa-A should do it just fine.

I'm sorry PINK I really don't agree with anything you've said and maybe you should do some research into the breed

What, you mean like owning one?;) Like this -
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v715/Pinkslady/Pink/FurryPinkinsnowedit.jpg
Who's basically exactly the same as Logic. Except that Pink is as over-weight as Logic is under (i.e just a little) and is now in electric fencing.

[JOJOBA]

Sarah -
Give the nutritionists at Dengie a ring, they are really helpful. I had a chat with one who gave a lecture through our yard. They encourage people to feed fibre based diets, and reckon horses dont need hard feed at all. The woman who lectured us has an event horse fed entirely on roughage.
Our yard changed it's feeding a little and now all the horses (except the oldies or those with problems) just get AlfaA, oil, sugar beet and veg. They all look really well on it. They also all get ad lib haylage.

Becs - thanks :p, he's a good example of what good care can do - I never did anything special with him, just fed him well, made sure he was comfy and happy, and the rest sorted itself out.

vjoy23 - I dont think anyone was really contradicting each other, there are varying opinions on how best to feed but none that are radically dissimilar.

xxx

[eventerbabe]

i think logic looks absolutely spot on weight wise. i wouldn't want to see her put on any more, but i'm paranoid about laminitis and have seen a clydesdale succumb to it. the bigger they are, the harder it hits them. i do think she lacks overall muscle tone and i am positive that once she's muscled up she will look loads better. my laminitic welshie looked similar to logic in early spring. but after a few months of work she's muscled up beautifully. we have stuck with lots and lots of walking, raised poles, light schooling (because she's been out of work on and off for 5 years) and hacking.

Defo cobntact dengie. i've spoken to their reps at blair and they are so helpful. i'm a fibre-based diets now.