Help - western girthing system!

[~Perdita.M~]

My new barefoot arizona has just arrvied, its lovely!:D But.......I have no idea how to do up the cinch on it, it looks so complicated! I bought a professionals choice neoprene cinch, as we do have slipping issues ( big tummy!) Anyway, at the moment there is a strap on each side, sort of all tied up.....and I don't know what to do with it:o Could anyone explain to me in very very basic terms how to do it? Or have any photos of it done up.or know of any websites that explain it well?:confused: Many thanks in advance!

[No_Angel]

get one of these, they look easy:D
http://www.horseandharmony.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=267_269&products_id=1148

how about this http://www.newrider.co.uk/Specialisms/Western/Mounting/western_mount2.html

[bexj]

The NR description is much better than I could do! You also have to cinch a Western Saddle much tighter than an English one, because you can't do it up once you are on board. otherwise you end up all wonky by the end of the ride, like my friend at the yard:eek:

[qhlady]

hi all....don't mean to butt in, but a western saddle should NOT be cinched as tight as an english, and DEFINATELY not tighter!

A well fitting western saddle will actually allow a rider to mount without slipping even with NO cinch attatched! Sounds crazy I know, but I read that somewhere, years ago, and I've tried it and it's true!

You can do alot of damage to a horses back with a hard western saddle that is cinched too tight. If your saddle slips that much, try a breastplate, and or a non slip pad, or get a better fitting saddle.

[smaggi]

hi all....don't mean to butt in, but a western saddle should NOT be cinched as tight as an english, and DEFINATELY not tighter!

A well fitting western saddle will actually allow a rider to mount without slipping even with NO cinch attatched! Sounds crazy I know, but I read that somewhere, years ago, and I've tried it and it's true!

You can do alot of damage to a horses back with a hard western saddle that is cinched too tight. If your saddle slips that much, try a breastplate, and or a non slip pad, or get a better fitting saddle.

I completely agree. My first western saddle did not fit my horse well and was always slipping. I bought a new saddle and had the fit checked by a friend that teaches back country horsemanship at the college in town. He said it fits Cisco perfectly. I can also mount without the cinch attached. We live in really hilly country, so I use a breastplate, but I don't overly tighten my cinch and the saddle stays right where it should be.

[Jessey]

I have to agree, I hate to see horse cinched so tight they can hardly breathe. Even with Bo's not so good fitting saddle by the end of a ride I can normally silde my entire arm under it with hardly any force at all, it never moves and this horse is a serious bronc'er and rearer, I just use a flank cinch and breat plate to give the saddle more overall stability.

Think of the cinch tieing like doing a tie, basically you go down through the cinch loop, back up through the rigging and out from behind to one side, then bring it across the front of the strap (the one going from rigging to cinch) tuck it back into the back of the rigging so it comes out the front, as it comes out, loop it under the bit that went across the strap and pull down firmly to secure.
I wouldn't tie off with a synthetic strap, always buckle as they tend to undo themselves.

Any chance you can post some pictures of the saddle on your horse? I am contemplating buying one but not sure if it will look 'western' enough for competition :o

J x

[~Perdita.M~]

Ah fret ye not.....its a western treeless saddle, so not at all hard rigid and heavy. And I have also bought a non slip cinch, non slip pad ( horse side and saddle side) and also a breastplate! I'd like to think my pony could breathe whilst being ridden lol!:)

[~Perdita.M~]

Oops cross posted Jessey! Yes I can certainly get photos, was planning to anyway to assist with learning to tie it! Have had lots of help on this thread I put here : http://ihdg.proboards91.com/index.cgi?board=Discuss&action=display&thread=1149677833

Will get some photos tomorrow when we try it on him:) Im expecting it to look huge though as he is shortbacked, but the western style didn't come any smaller.......hoping it will be ok looks wise, and fitting wise as there is no weight baring other than where you sit....we should be ok

[joe21]

My new barefoot arizona has just arrvied, its lovely!:D But.......I have no idea how to do up the cinch on it, it looks so complicated! I bought a professionals choice neoprene cinch, as we do have slipping issues ( big tummy!) Anyway, at the moment there is a strap on each side, sort of all tied up.....and I don't know what to do with it:o Could anyone explain to me in very very basic terms how to do it? Or have any photos of it done up.or know of any websites that explain it well?:confused: Many thanks in advance!

The link posted by No_Angel really shows it the best. One thing missing from there, however, it the off-side cinch attachment.

There are typically two ways the cinch is attached to the off-side. One way is to tie it with a latigo, exactly as shown in the link. The other is to connect it "belt buckle" style. This is done with a thicker leather than a latigo which is doubled up. The "pin" on the cinch goes through the hole in the strap just like a belt. Which method you use largely depends on the type of off-side strap you have on your saddle.

In either case, the cinch should be centered - equal distance down from the saddle on both sides.

Also interesting that you are using a neoprene cinch to avoid slipping. I was having some slip problems which caused me to move to a mohair strand cinch. When my horse gets hot and sweaty, the neoprene tends to slip, while the mohair does not. Of course, YMMV.

[~Perdita.M~]

Thanks Joe......the off side.......seems to be able to be buckled only. There is a double short strap with holes in it. Not long enough to tie up I dont think. Re the neoprene, we shall have to see! I have never tried a neoprene anything before, I was just advised that they were the best for non slip. I will bare the mohair in mind should we suffer any problems though! I could imagine it rubbing or pinching a little, will have to see!

[smaggi]

Also interesting that you are using a neoprene cinch to avoid slipping. I was having some slip problems which caused me to move to a mohair strand cinch. When my horse gets hot and sweaty, the neoprene tends to slip, while the mohair does not. Of course, YMMV.

I agree. Nothing beats a Mohair strand cinch.

[Keket]

Thanks Joe......the off side.......seems to be able to be buckled only. There is a double short strap with holes in it. Not long enough to tie up I dont think. Re the neoprene, we shall have to see! I have never tried a neoprene anything before, I was just advised that they were the best for non slip. I will bare the mohair in mind should we suffer any problems though! I could imagine it rubbing or pinching a little, will have to see!

All we use is neoprene at our barn and the horses love it. Doesn't pinch them or rub or anything. And easy to clean too! :D

[~Perdita.M~]

Oh thats good to hear, was starting to wonder if I was evil for daring to have something other than mohair!:D

[smaggi]

Oh thats good to hear, was starting to wonder if I was evil for daring to have something other than mohair!:D

Not evil, just a new school rebel. :D

[bexj]

Oops I stand corrected - apologies. I am not an experienced western rider, but have only gleaned what I know from many experienced western riders at my yard. It looks like I had firmly grasped the wrong end of the stick on this one;)

[qhlady]

Bexj, didn't mean to offend, but theres an awful lot of "western" riders in the UK that do our discipline no good at all, there's alot of "quality american tack" being imported... from china... and I promise you... you wont find quality western tack for sale in the USA in "pony-cob or full" sizes...

I compete in western competition across the UK against international horses and riders, and I avoid certain clubs/instructors/western riders/trainers etc like the plague... just as in english, there are "experts" everywhere, and if you don't know any better, then how can you say what is correct and what is not?

I am not trying to say your friends are not competent, but the fact is that a western cinch should not be as tight as an english, and your friends should loosen their cinches... or get a saddle that fits.

Also, bear in mind a western saddle sits further forward than an english, so they may simply have their saddle in the wrong spot, giving the impression that it's been moving too much. It's the same as people complaining western saddles hurt their knees, or ankles... reason being they have not set the fenders...not something people think of when coming from english saddles.

Either way, they and their horses could be enjoying their western tack more! And I hope I haven't caused more offence!

[Jessey]

I have a Pro Choice neo cinch, its GREAT, we don't slip and my horse prefers it, strand cinch's pinch his sensitive bits :rolleyes:
I'll keep a look out for the pictures :D

[joe21]

Thanks Joe......the off side.......seems to be able to be buckled only. There is a double short strap with holes in it. Not long enough to tie up I dont think. Re the neoprene, we shall have to see! I have never tried a neoprene anything before, I was just advised that they were the best for non slip. I will bare the mohair in mind should we suffer any problems though! I could imagine it rubbing or pinching a little, will have to see!


Double short strap with holes... that's the type that buckles like a belt. Not meant to be tied. You just want to buckle into the hole that centers the cinch when it is fully tied.

On neoprene vs. mohair... didn't mean to imply that one is better or less prone to slipping. I have ridden horses with a neoprene cinch and there is no slip, no rub, no pinch. That's why I was so surprised to see the opposite when I got my horse. The neoprene just didn't work with that particular horse, and I have no idea why.

When I switched to mohair stranded, so many people told me it would slip, pinch, give him sores, etc. I found - on this particular horse - that mohair was perfect for him. There is no right or wrong here, just what works best for your horse. Like I said, YMMV (your mileage may vary).

--Joe

[jroz]

Also, bear in mind a western saddle sits further forward than an english, so they may simply have their saddle in the wrong spot, giving the impression that it's been moving too much. It's the same as people complaining western saddles hurt their knees, or ankles... reason being they have not set the fenders...not something people think of when coming from english saddles.



qhlady, what do you mean by "set the fenders?" Does this refer to when someone uses a broom handle in the stirrups to break in the fenders/stirrup angle?

[bexj]

And I hope I haven't caused more offence!

No offence taken whatsoever. I think it is probably my understanding of what has been said, rather than them not knowing - one of my friends runs a highly respected Western tack shop and is a trained Western saddle fitter, so she does know what she is talking about. But, as I have had little experience of it (and am hugely open to learning:D ) I must have grasped the wrong concept on this one - I am kind of learning from watching, listening etc etc etc....which doesn't necessarily allow for asking questions at the right time:D :D

I appreciate the time you have taken to correct me - after all, most of us are learning about things all the time, and if we were all to get offended at being corrected on something, then we'd be in a right mess wouldn't we!:D :D

[qhlady]

Jroz, hi, yes, setting the fenders is when you usually soak the stirrup leather and wide part of the fender, then either twist and "lock" with a broom handle, or lay on the floor and stack books or something heavy on the folded fender until it dries, then you will find your stirrups are hanging at the correct angle for your feet, and not trying to turn your ankles all the time... not always nessesary as some saddles come "ready turned" and the softer leather ones don't always need doing, but a heavy roping saddle or such would DEF want turning.

[qhlady]

Bexj, thanks for not being offended... I don't come on here much, and try to avoid some forums as you can so easily get in a scrap with a bunch of people... it's scary!

I'm American, and I get so annoyed over here when I see people doing western badly as it is already so hard to get the "english" folk to look at us with some respect. When I first came to this country, I couldn't find a western rider for love nor money, now everybody is getting on the bandwagon. I think it makes me (wrongly) accuse alot of people of being cowboy wannabes rather than western horsemanship students! I get the same way about Parelli, Monty etc... Love them for opening everybody up to a "new" way of doing things, HATE that they claim it IS new and costs and arm and a leg! All hail the Dorrances and Ray Hunt!:D

I saw a "demo" the other week at a local country show that I had to walk away from... this was by a canadian instructor...? The spins were wrong, the stops were wrong, the crazy woman had them trying to slide on grass with no plates on... and her reins were so tight on her crazy horse that I thought she was going to be launched into next week at any moment... not my kind of western riding thats for sure! But THIS is what the public get to see, and think is riding "cowboy style" you know! Burns my butt for sure!!

I wish some of the UK mags would come to an AQHA show, and see it for real you know. Oh well, if we make it into the olympics maybe...

I wonder if your friend is the same person I just bought an equiflex saddle from, most awesome saddle I ever rode in. I always swore I never would, being a "traditional" sort of gal, but my wood tree saddle was just not doing my baby any good at all, and that was slipping too, no matter what pad, cinch, breastplate... nightmare. I sat in one of the equiflex saddle, and it was like riding bareback. Love it. And on my ever changing three year old, it moves not an inch. I have also treated her to a pro choice air ride pad, and HIGHLY recommend to anyone with slipping saddles or pressure spots and dry spots. Well worth the money.

Gonna stop waffling on now! Bye for now!

[bexj]

Bexj, thanks for not being offended... I don't come on here much, and try to avoid some forums as you can so easily get in a scrap with a bunch of people... it's scary!

Please stick around - we could do with the advice! It's generally quite a friendly board though - I know what you mean about some people getting really antsy on some boards:D Hopefully, we are not like that on here.

I'm American, and I get so annoyed over here when I see people doing western badly as it is already so hard to get the "english" folk to look at us with some respect.

There is nothing worse than someone practising anything badly, let alone claiming to be an expert. I read a question recently on another board, where a rider quite genuinely asked how she could start riding western, and was met with ridicule about the clothing in return. Poor person has probably been put off western for life.:(

I wish some of the UK mags would come to an AQHA show, and see it for real you know. Oh well, if we make it into the olympics maybe...

I went to the AQHA show at Arena UK recently, but unfortunately didn't get a huge amount of time to watch the classes, as I was working on one of the trade stands (Hooves Equestrian). I was totally impressed by what I did see though - most of which was in the warm up arena. Next time, I will try and watch as well as work:D

Nice speaking to you:D :D

[~Perdita.M~]

Well tried saddle on pony today.....managed to tie it up properly, the buckle pin just does not stay in! so followed the knot thing, went ok. However, didn't like the saddle on him at all, much too long, and perched, and even the wide pommel I bought as an extra item was too narrow.....so the whole lot has to go back:( Have got a photo, so you can see what I mean I hope.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/fenellamaxwell/arizona.jpg

[Esther.D]

See exactly what you mean and agree - we have the same saddle (in the size 2) on Alfie but he is very different in size to Sham! can't find a pic of the saddle on him. Rupert wears the Cheyenne and thats ok on him - perhaps worth a try?

[~Perdita.M~]

Looks ridiculous doesn't he! Like he has a tortoise shell on:D Blimmin' saddles.:rolleyes: Apparantly the size one is the same size as our old fitform....but I know that didn't look like that! I could try the cheyenne....in size 0 I guess. Thing is, I really wanted the western style, otherwise should have just kept the fitform. Oh well. Only other one I have my eye on is the phoenix.......but where on earth do I get the extra cash for that!

[LMS]

I saw a "demo" the other week at a local country show that I had to walk away from... this was by a canadian instructor...? The spins were wrong, the stops were wrong, the crazy woman had them trying to slide on grass with no plates on... and her reins were so tight on her crazy horse that I thought she was going to be launched into next week at any moment... not my kind of western riding thats for sure! But THIS is what the public get to see, and think is riding "cowboy style" you know! Burns my butt for sure!!

Oh please! Oh please! I hope that you all don't think that canadians are all wannabe cowboys! Trust me we're not all like that! And honestly: a good western instructor is difficult to find in our area anyways.

Sounds like that woman got lucky into being invited or however she got the privilege of doing a demo. Bad riding is just that no matter where you're from.

I'm not taking offence to the remark, I'm just making sure that all don't think we're all like that!

I've certainly met a few instructors, from both disciplines that I've just scratched my head & wondered how the heck they got certified! And what's worse are the ones that are not certified but somehow managed to convince others that they are good!:confused:

Anyhow, back to the original topic: yes that saddle is really not a good fit, what a shame.

So what are your plans now Perdita?

[LMS]

I don't know if you can use this, but here's a site that poped up when I typrd in your saddle http://barefootsaddle.com/
http://search.ebay.co.uk/treeless-saddle_W0QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ3

[No_Angel]

looks like youve got a bit too much padding under the saddle:) maybe try a thin navajo numnah off ebay so it has no seams.
i dont think the saddle looks too long, if you look at the cantle block its infront of his loin, maybe stuff the cantle if you think its too long (and maybe the pommel if its too narrow, but will probably fit a bit better with less under the saddle:)

[~Perdita.M~]

Ah thanks, yes it is a very thick pad. Good though. Is the grandeur pad from barefoot, has shims etc inside. Very grippy! But anyway........saddle still not great without it, so it will be going back. The only other saddle that I had in mind is the phoenix, so just have to scrape the extra £££ together for that and be saddle-less for a bit:eek: Only thing is that I wanted the suber one and I don't think you can get that in either the 16 or 17 inch ones:rolleyes:

[No_Angel]

what size rug does sham take?
ive had my 18inch prolite gp fhoenix on my 12hh section a who takes a 5ft/5ft3 rug and 14hh welsh d who takes a 5ft6/5ft9 rug, fine on both (and very stable):)

[~Perdita.M~]

He's in a 5'6.......I don't think his current shape or lack of it helps....big belly and slighty dippy back:rolleyes:

[Jessey]

God it does look pretty huge doesn't it :eek: I didn't realise you could return it if it didn't fit, I have been asking around trying to find one to try before I buy. I would deinatly want to now, I am very dubious about the pomel being too narrow, my girl is super wide :o

QHLady, I know what you mean, I am a Brit but learnt western on an old cattle ranch in montana and from reading from american books etc, have also trained with a few people who have spent time in the states to train. But I also watched a western demo at the country fair in the next village, I was appauled and left within minutes, it was terrible, he didn't show the gaits well, when the mare spooked he said he was demonstraiting 'working that ramp' (she spooked at a ramp in the arena) he has her in a bosal and was hanging on for dear life the whole time :( also his tack was poorly fitted - I could have done a better demo with my 3 year old!

J x