Western Riding - QH

[iluveventin]

Hi,

My friend is very intrested in western riding and would like to buy a QH, The question is... what weights do they take ? i've been searching the net and i cant seem to find anything out about the weight these horses can carry. On looking the QH seems quite fine really for a weight carrying male so i'm thinking that maybe a QH isn't what he really wants, Basically he wants to ride western on something fairly safe, what type of horses do you suggest ?
Any info gratefully received

[Skib]

I'd like a quarter horse too. And anyone who wants to ride Western will do well with one.
But in the UK there is not a big knowledge pool about Western tack and western riding, nor a big pool of breeders, so these horses sell at a premium. Was talking to my own teacher this morning. And she said that quarter horses vary a lot. Moreover quarter horse is a very loose description.

Quarter horses (as you must know) were race horses, sprinters. But here in the UK they are thought of as general American horses used by cowboys - which some of them later were.
And they are now bred and used for reining competitions. However today's men are bigger, and they need horses with more stamina, so I was told in Texas that the quarter horses have been cross bred with TBs, increasing the chest (lung) capacity, and giving them more stamina, also making them bigger. This sounds similar to the way the French cross percherons with Arabs to breed riding horses. Many men weigh quite a lot and riding horses are bred to meet that demand.
So the weight bearing capacity of a quarter horse will vary from horse to horse and it should be possible to import one from the States, where they are not expensive and there is a wide choice, which is able to carry your friend.
If you want info in the UK there is an American Quarter Horse Society which advertises every week in Horse and Hound.

[cvb]

There are QH breeders in the UK, so not all of them are imported.

QH are bred to carry 6ft cowboys all day, so I would certainly describe them as weight carriers :D

The American Quarter Horse Association UK do have a website but I can't get it to load right now ...

QHxTB are often referred to as Appendix horses, as they are in the Appendix of the breed register. Do watch out - QHs have quite small upright feet and if you breed them to a big rangy TB it *can* cause issues with the feet. A friend who used to breed them was looking for a stallion to import and had grerat trouble getting one to pass the vet !

I have an Appaloosa mare who is very QH in shape etc (Canadian bred).

In general you need to remember western saddles are not light. For example mine is 30 something pounds in weight. So whatever horse you look at needs to carry person PLUS saddle happily.

But any horse can, in theory, do western. You want to look for the calmer smoother paced horses - but there are draft horses doing western :)

And natives, cobs etc etc.

http://www.wes-uk.com/ for more info on western in the UK. But your profile doesn't say where you are ? If you *are* in the UK, bear in mind Quarter Horses are either imported, or bred from imported stock for not many generations - so tend to have a premium attached.

[Peace]

As cvb says, what you want is a good old-fashioned "bulldog" type QH - not one with a lot of TB in its background. You can read more about that type on the National Foundation Quarter Horse website:http://www.nfqha.com/breedstan.html

The racing folks started breeding in TB to get more speed, but in the process lost the QH temperament and soundness, IMO.

[smaggi]

Peace is right. We have 3 QH. Two of them are bred from the King Ranch cutting horse Mr San Peppy bloodline. They are short, stocky, musclebound, bulldog QHs. Here is a picture of Mr. San Peppy to give you an idea.

http://www.nostalgical.com/mrsanpeppy.htm

Our other QH is ranch bred from Ciderwood bloodlines. He is taller, with longer finer legs and built for speed. He is not Appendix registered and has all QH in his bloodlines, but his line is not as stocky as the other bloodline.

[Keket]

I second what cvb, Peace and smaggi have said. The Quarter Horses around here (Atlantic Canada) are anything but "fine". They're smaller, stocky horses, rather muscle bound. At least, that's how I like to see them. ;) Some people cross them with Thoroughbreds to get the stamina and because they want to refine the Quarter Horse.

Examples:
Dun By Storm (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/darknepthys/meandsadie3.jpg), she's a Paint, but mostly with Quarter Horse bloodlines (owned by RI)
CS Nimble Coquette (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/darknepthys/Coquette/1.jpg), registered Quarter Horse (owned by RI, fussed over by me)

Of course, I'm not sure what the Quarter Horses over there look like. I'm hoping they're the same, but there's always a chance that they're finer.

[smaggi]

cvb, You may be right. Maybe the imported QHs in the UK are finer built.

Here's a picture of my little 14.2H bulldog, Cisco.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c361/smaggi1/turkeyFeathers.jpg

[cvb]

LOL, wasn't me that said it ! It was the original poster, and I don't know what QHs they have seen. All the ones I have seen have been proper QH shape :)

I know you QH folk aren't too keen on spots, but here's my "little" mare trying on her new saddle last year.
http://groups.msn.com/NRphotos/cvbfifi.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=5659

[smaggi]

LOL, wasn't me that said it ! It was the original poster

Oops, I stand corrected!:p

cvb, Your little mare QH looks like she 's a Yankee from the US. That's exactly what I'm used to seeing here. We have a fleabitten grey gelding with dark black legs that has as much color as yours. I love spots. The more spots, the better.:D

[Peace]

cvb, Your little mare QH looks like she 's a Yankee from the US.

Certainly not!:eek: Why, Miss Fi's mane and tail are Confederate grey. Anyway, one would think an appaloosa might be more at home in a rebel army.;) :D

[cvb]

Ah, but she's a canadian lady ;)

she just got her the long way round, via Sweden !
(www.qar.ca is her breeder)

[Jessey]

Do check out the AQHA UK web page, it has loads of info.
There do appear to be two distinct types of QH's here in the UK, those they call the pleasure horses, over 16hh and a bit finer and the bulldogs up to about 15.2hh and very chunky. There was a stage about 15 years ago when alot of horses came in that they wanted bigger horses (english rider tend to go for taller horses) so thats what they bred for. Now people are realising that you don't need all that height to carry weight so the trend with many of the breeders is going back to the bulldog type horses.

This is my girl early this spring, she's 3 - http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y291/Jessey129/Jess/JessRoundPencroped.jpg
and this one is at 18 months oldhttp://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y291/Jessey129/NR013.jpg
She is 15hh and wears a 6'6" rug as she is very broard in the chest and hip, even though she is only 50% QH, 25% Paint and 25% TB.

A friend of mine is 6'2" and weights about 16 stone, his horse is only 14.2 but he is very stocky, he copes perfectly with carrying John and has been for years :D I think it also depends on the way someone rides, novices often ride 'heavier' than those with more experiance.

[smaggi]

Certainly not!:eek: Why, Miss Fi's mane and tail are Confederate grey. Anyway, one would think an appaloosa might be more at home in a rebel army.;) :D


Woah now Peace, sorry for the Yankee comment. ;) Us Yankees up north wouldn't want to stir up another Civil war in the states with you southern folks.

[smaggi]

Why, Miss Fi's mane and tail are Confederate grey.:D

Hmmm! I thought I distinctly heard our grey horse Snuffy whistling Dixie the other day, but I thought I was hearing things. :D

[Peace]

Hmmm! I thought I distinctly heard our grey horse Snuffy whistling Dixie the other day, but I thought I was hearing things. :D

Must be one of our secret agents.;)

As long as we're sharing pics, here's one of Quanah looking rather bulldog-ish.:)

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a245/paintmisbehavin/meandquanah.jpg

[joe21]

<snip>
And they are now bred and used for reining competitions. However today's men are bigger, and they need horses with more stamina, so I was told in Texas that the quarter horses have been cross bred with TBs, increasing the chest (lung) capacity, and giving them more stamina, also making them bigger. This sounds similar to the way the French cross percherons with Arabs to breed riding horses. Many men weigh quite a lot and riding horses are bred to meet that demand.
So the weight bearing capacity of a quarter horse will vary from horse to horse and it should be possible to import one from the States, where they are not expensive and there is a wide choice, which is able to carry your friend.
<snip>


Actually, today's men are not necesarily bigger. The old west cowboys were sometime tall (6ft or more) - they just rode smaller horses. The traditional QH is not very tall (14-15hh, I think?). Yes, some people are breeding them taller today, but that is more of a "fashion trend." Many (most?) real cowboys doing real ranchwork and rodeos are still riding the traditional (is "foundation" the right word here?) QH.

Also, with all the modern conveniences, medicine and technology we have today, I would venture to say the the 1880's ranch QH needed more stamina and had to work harder than the typical ranch or show horse today.

Confirmation is more important than height when looking at the weight a QH can carry. I am a tall person and would feel better about riding a stocky, well built 14.3 QH than a thin legged, small hoof 16hh.

That said, you should have no problem finding a QH that can carry someone of just about any size/weight. It is a very versitile breed.

[Skib]

I've been away for a bit so missed the latest posts here. Was very interested, Smaggi, in the King Ranch descended quarter horse and pics, because, though I didnt name names, the place where they explained the breeding to us was King Ranch.
And the aim (again as I understood it) was to give the horse more stamina and strength, not to make a finer legged horse.
I personally added the bit about men being bigger. Sure there were tall cowboys but I was referring to the weight of the average American these days which is almost certainly more than it was before 1914, and thus of the average tourist who wants to trail ride on a quarter horse?

[Peace]

That, and the fact that most cowboys were teenagers and hung up their spurs by their mid-twenties - I suspect they were lighter than the average middle-aged tourist.:)

[Kat8Tootsie]

Hey your worried that a Qh cant carry the weight right ?

Ok so im from Alberta( not sure about every one else) but like Qhs are one of the only breeds u see around here and they can carry respectable wait i mean (no offence to these mentioned) some of the people that go to gymkhana with us are very heavy set and these horses motor but the only thing is where is the horse that ** considerin perchaseing from ? because some QHs i must admitt dont look like they are fit to carry alot of weight

well i dont no if i helped at all but i hope that i did if no i may be able to tell u more info especially if u can b a lil more specific u can email me at jubjub81@hotmail.com

[Skib]

I am the ignorant one on this thread.
I dont understand, you see. How does one in the USA define a QH today?
can it have TB mixed in?
What is special about King Ranch cutting horses, apart from the training?
King Ranch offer a special day tour with lunch for tourists who book in advance and want to focus either on the cattle business or the horses. But we didnt have that much time and went on the standard tourist bus trip and I dont know enough to understand. Here is the website and what does upgrade mean?
http://www.king-ranch.com/quarter_horses.html
I do have some pics (I think) which I could post later, though no time this morning. I also bought their leaflet on training their riding horses.

[Peace]

How does one in the USA define a QH today?
can it have TB mixed in?

I don't show in any of the association shows, so I can't give you the same answers as someone well-versed in the criteria of the various breed registries (AFQHA, AQHA, APHA, etc.) But from a lay perspective, it seems to me there are two distinct types of QH in the US - the taller, finer type (with more TB in its background) and the shorter more old-fashioned stock horse type (with less TB in its pedigree, although most QHs have some - I think foundation QH's must have less than twenty per cent). At least on the east coast very few people use QH's anymore to work stock, but QH racing is becoming very popular - so you see lots more of the taller, finer type.

That's why my Quanah went through so many owners (five in three years) before I got him - nobody wanted such a short horse! He obviously wasn't going to be very fast, so not racing material, and not tall enough to impress the western pleasure judges. In fact, I had to argue with his owner before me that yes, I really wanted to buy him and no, I didn't need to go and see him first. The previous owner was tired of meeting people at the boarding stable only to have them take one look and get back in the car! Turns out, though, he became quite the little h/j'er, so I think I'd get a good price for him as a hunter pony. But I'm not planning to part with him!:)

As for reining and cutting horses - I don't know beans about that sort of thing. I would think a shorter horse with a lower center of gravity would be better suited for the work - but from looking at the King Ranch pictures it seems that's not the type they're going for.

[Skib]

Thank you Peace.
My King Ranch pics are not wonderful but here is group and (below) the mare moving out of my main picture left.
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a303/Skib39/Historic%20horses/Kinghorseherd.gif

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a303/Skib39/Historic%20horses/kingranchmare.gif

This (below) is a special breeding group, aiming to get chestnut foals from a darker mare. The dark horses suffer in the south Texas heat and light ones sunburn easily. Chestnut is considered ideal.
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a303/Skib39/Historic%20horses/kingranchbreedingweb.jpg

[smaggi]

As for reining and cutting horses - I don't know beans about that sort of thing. I would think a shorter horse with a lower center of gravity would be better suited for the work - but from looking at the King Ranch pictures it seems that's not the type they're going for.

I don't do any showing either. I have friends that do some cutting and I went to see the pro cutting at Equine Affaire and talked to some of the people there. From what I'm told the biggest thing they look for is cow sense. They breed horses with an inherited ability to work with cows kind of like pointing breed bird dogs are bred with inherited the ability to point game.

As far as confirmation, I was told they want a horse that is agile and can move quick. When I was there I saw a lot of short stocky horses, but there were exceptions. I think it's kind of like a Guard vs a Center in the NBA. A guard needs to move quick and they are usually shorter than a center. You could also take a look at Olympic sprinters in track and field. On average they are usually shorter and stockier than the long lean distance runner.