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Franqui
25th Jun 2006, 09:06 PM
Hi everyone. I haven't managed to get on here lately, because I've been really busy with our TWO ponies!

Dexter has been slowly improving. His barging is much improved since we used a knotted halter on him (lent by one of the other liveries). He's been lunging well. Liz got on him again the other week. Hubby and I led her over the motorway bridge, but Dex didn't bat an eyelid. We got him down onto the Vale, past noisy kids, dogs, cars and a motorbike, oh and some rude teenage boys (LOL). When he got onto the grass on the Vale, he got very excited, and Liz got scared he'd rear, but he didn't. However, on the way back, he planted again and started a rear. We grabbed him and got him moving forwards, but Liz leapt off after another few strides as she was scared again. We ended up leading him back to the yard with her shaking all the way.

We've had another girl off the yard, fearless type, and a good little rider. She knew his history and, despite our hopes, he reared at least 10 times with her this morning, usually when someone walked past the field or another pony passed.

So we've decided he is definitely not for us. I'm still injured, but Liz has lost all confidence in riding him. I don't think that's doing either of them any good. He's a lovely pony in so many ways. Stood like an angel for the farrier this morning. But he clearly is a rearer. Oh, and he stood beautifully for one of the other liveries to measure him (which we hadn't done), and he is 13.1, rather than 13.2.

We do feel as if we've been 'done'. When we tried him, he was really well behaved - no sign of any problem. It's easy in hindsight, but the signs were there that the previous owner knew... she told the vet she used tranquiliser gel when clipping him, and tranquiliser gel for this and that... and he reared a bit when the vet took his blood. I was assured he had no vices, and no he doesn't in the sense that he doesn't weave, crib-bite or windsuck, but I do think rearing is something that should be mentioned at purchase?! We did see him ridden by someone else before trying him, although the owner's daughter was 'feeling unwell', and he did nothing wrong. When he was loaded onto the lorry, he did start rearing slightly. It's all so easy in hindsight, and I didn't ask the specific question, does he rear? Would you expect someone to tell you if a prospective purchase reared? Or am I just being naive??

We feel very sad, because he has really settled down at the yard now. And we feel duty bound to tell any prospective buyer/lessee that he rears, which will probably limit the number of people who would want to take him on.

On the brighter side, I couldn't bear seeing Liz so unhappy. It's taken a lot of her enjoyment out of horses. So we went and bought a Connemara schoolmistress. She's forward going, but safe, and has lots of experience at 12. Her last owner but one has already been in touch to give us loads of her history, and she's exactly as described by her last owner. She's bang on 14.2, so definitely no question of us being too big for her, like we had with Dex (although he rides 'big' so we don't look any bigger on him than her).

So, be pleased to have any advice from you as to what we should do as to selling Dex. Thanks.

Est
25th Jun 2006, 09:44 PM
Rearing is classed as a vice, which by law must be declared at time of sale, even by a private seller.
I suggest you send a strongly worded letter by recorded delivery outlining this fact, and stating that you are therefore rejecting the pony as mis-described and unsuitable for the purpose he was bought for. Say you wish to arrange his return at the seller's cost, and a full refund of all monies paid, otherwise you will take legal action to recover your money. You could also say you are taking legal advice on pursuing a claim for negligence on the part of the seller as her failure to declare the vice (as was her duty in law) has led to personal injury.
I bet she sh1ts a brick :)
If you don't want to get involved with the seller again, sell him on yourself at a slight loss - someone will want him anyway. My friend sold her mare on because she reared all the time when ridden and it destroyed my friend's confidence. Her ad was honest about the problem. A competent teenager tried her (the mare reared several times during the trial) and bought her anyway, and both she and her parents were 100% happy that she would be able to sort out the rearing in time. It may take time to make sure he gets the right home, but I'm sure you will :)

Franqui
25th Jun 2006, 09:53 PM
Thanks Est. I'll sleep on it and see what hubby and Liz want to do.

The new mare is called Song Duchess and I'll try and get some photos uploaded.

neen
25th Jun 2006, 09:59 PM
Sorry you've had such a trauma, Franqui. I really think they should have mentioned the rearing! I don't understand how anyone can sell on a horse knowing that they are putting the buyer in danger like that. Your injuries were bad enough, but they could have been much worse.

But do you want to risk sending him back there? Or would you rather find him a good home yourself? Someone else may be able to advise on whether you could pursue a claim but at the same time not send him back.

Hope it works out -- I'm sure you've done the right thing. Looking forward to hearing about the new pony!

Greentchr
26th Jun 2006, 03:30 AM
Perhaps the seller will agree to refund you the difference between what you paid for him and what you will be able to sell him for. I would not let that seller off the hook, no matter what! I hate it when people put money over morals!

By all means check into legal procedures and threaten him with it!

Good luck with Song Dutchess! sounds like a dream...

Bay Mare
26th Jun 2006, 05:50 AM
I agree with the other posters, it was digusting that it wasn't mentioned to you. Unfortunately there are people like that around who are quite happy to lie or cheat no matter the consequences.

Just a thought (and you may have looked at this already), have you had teeth, back and tack checked? Have you tried him in a bitless bridle? If you haven't it may be worth a try, if he relaxes and looks like a different horse immediately you could have yourself a bitting or mouth issue which can be 'cured' given patience and time.

Another option would be to get an RA (http://www.intelligenthorsemanship.co.uk) in to do an assessment and see if they have any ideas.

My mare reared when I got her, everything from small bounces to full up rears. When it got to over a dozen times in one hour I knew that I had to sort it out! Her issue (and I'm not saying that this applies to your horse) was that she had been booted into a very tight unforgiving contact we think so found contact of any kind unpleasant or even painful. I only had to pick up the reins (I don't use a tight contact) and she'd be up. She felt that she couldn't go forwards, couldn't go backwards so the only way was UP. I had to take her out of a bit completely for a few months and then gradually reintroduce it. She's currently in Sprenger WH (the Ultra with a wheel in the centre of the lozenge) and is much, much better :)

All the best to you whatever decision you finally make :)

Franqui
26th Jun 2006, 09:11 PM
Hi, thanks all for the advice (and a pic of Duchess should now be on my avatar!).

We've not got enough money to have a full fight in Court over it if she made a fight of it. I did take it up with her and, of course, so far as she's concerned it's all my fault. Apparently I shouldn't have ridden him so soon and the poor thing should have had two months to settle in before anyone tried riding him :eek: I haven't gone back to her with the further 'evidence' of his continued rearing, nor that we noticed she shut her daughter up when she said "Mum he's rearing again" on the horsebox.

To be honest, we don't think we'd get anything out of her without a Court fight, and the problem is not only lack of cash to fight, but the fact that we would have to add some sort of expert evidence to convince the Court. The previous owner is a professional groom and in a "her word against ours", she has the greater credibility going in.

I'm sure we'll be able to sell him to the right sort of person eventually. We're hoping to get Paige to ride him on a reasonably regular basis and maybe even take him to the Pony Club shows. I want him to go to a good home as he's not nasty.

So far as his back goes, I am going to have it checked, although the vet found nothing wrong with him before. His teeth have been checked regularly, and his saddle was made to fit last year and does not seem to cause him any problem. However, I have a bareback pad and am going to see if he's the same with that. He goes very happily in a Happy Mouth jointed fulmer snaffle with lozenge. It's a pretty gentle bit and he has a very soft mouth. However, he has reared when on a long rein or short, so I don't think it is being sensitive in the mouth.

I've looked on the RA list and we do have one near us, so I'll try getting her out.

Will keep you posted as to how it goes. One of the girls on the yard currently rides a 12 hander and is apparently looking for a bigger pony. I know she likes Dex, so maybe?...

Thanks for all the advice

Dummer&Drummer
27th Jun 2006, 12:24 PM
oh poor you, im so sorry its terribly sad when things end up this way, but hey good luck and good news re the new pony

just a few things ive learnt and heard.

i would not enter into a full court fight, maybe the best thing you can take away is a hard lesson learnt and learn from it and move on taking the positives :o xxx

and i am sure you will be able to find him a loving home

good luck honey to you and your family x

Franqui
29th Jun 2006, 09:37 PM
Thanks everyone.

Good news! There are two people who want to loan him now. I'll be so pleased if he can stay on the yard. Will keep you posted.