Good news! He is nearly 5!!! [Archive] - New Rider Message Board

Little Dolphins

4th Jul 2006, 10:36 PM

Blimey, this is all a bit shocking, Dee! Never had an inkling that anything was amiss; poor you!:(

My YO (who's great I have to say. Wish you could move here but too far, I know...) has a big-boned mare. She has only really come in to her own at 6 years old and is now being brought on for competion work. Up to then YO did as you are doing with Coops, nice and gradual-like.

There are some really poopy people out there. Now you're vindicated, yay!!

Hope things at the yard cool down and the sniping stops
xx

domane

5th Jul 2006, 06:32 AM

Wow! You would never have guessed that there were "undercurrents" Dee!!

FAB news about Cooper... I'm joining you in the imaginary two fingers ("Ner ner ner ner nerrrrrr!")

You have NOTHING to be concerned about with your lovely boy.... just LOOk how well you are all doing... :D

Whatanejit

5th Jul 2006, 07:24 AM

If you had a week off work and therefor time to re-read the Cooper posts you will notice that I did hint at it.;)

xx

Dee

Skib

5th Jul 2006, 08:02 AM

Dee,
I hope you are in touch with people on NR who know the other yards near you? Emma Gardner who posts knows a lot. I ride out with an AI who knows many Surrey places. Including Epsom.
I understand that it isnt easy to move a horse and it is not something you want to do too soon for Cooper or when you are pushed for time. And it means sacrificing your friends and share and settling in with new people.

The other thought that struck me is that you have been in a positon like mine. Where knowledgeable professionals are anxious on your behalf and dont want you to come to any harm? You are blond, pretty, female. So there is the vulnerability factor. And dont recognise that in your other life you are a knowledgeable and highly competent woman, able to make decisons for yourself.

Clare-22

5th Jul 2006, 08:33 AM

Yay good news about getting his age confirmed, hopefully they will keep their noses out now :rolleyes: I bet they are just jelous at the time and effort you are putting into Cooper, and the results you are getting, using unconventional methods. l feel for you though as it is horrible being on a yard with an bad atmosphere.

Whatanejit

5th Jul 2006, 08:36 AM

xx

Dee

Est

5th Jul 2006, 09:03 AM

Could write an epistle about yard antics but am leaving that for a good bitch in the pub.

Oooooh, let me come ;)
It sounds like you've put up with a lot of cr*p :mad: There's always got to be someone who is an "expert" and knows better than anyone else... I always think of Wally's signature line and smile to myself.
Promise us you'll move soon even if not immediately ;)

teabiscuit

5th Jul 2006, 09:08 AM

YO's comments tonight as I yee hah'd in her face were that he must have had a hard start in life and that is why he was so tall and gangly.

Dee

not only those with ID in them, 1/4 shires do that too ;) , they can look imature until they're 5 or 6 too :eek:

ignoramouses-all of them.

you shouldn't have to put up with that treatment, grrr on your behalf
xxx

Wings

5th Jul 2006, 11:27 AM

Dee, what a pain about the yard problems. It can really take some of the pleasure out of being with your horse, can't it?

I hope it all sorts itself out, once they realise you are doing a great job with Cooper. I understand you would prefer to stay at your current yard, where he is settled. If not, I can recommend our very nice yard in Worplesdon (south of Woking), but I don't know if that is too far for you to travel.

We all know that your are doing such a good job with Cooper, and making so much progress. It's really sad that some know-it-alls feel the need to put you down.

Lucyad

5th Jul 2006, 11:39 AM

Goodness, they sound terrible! Everything that you are doing sounds just right though, so stand your ground. Half CD seem to take a while to mature as well, I have another gangly 6yo! But am feeding him lots of calories.....From this post it seems a typical problem of the larger breeds.

Tots N Dots

5th Jul 2006, 12:12 PM

I am not on a yard and am blooming glad with some of the stories I hear on here and from friends, what right does someone have to tell you what you should do and refuse to return your stuff? YOU PAY THEM TO HOUSE YOUR HORSE AT THE YARD! have they not heard the old addage that the customer is always right? you do not pay to get c**p all the time, if they rented a house woulkd they like to be told what curtains they can hang in what colours, or what furnature they were allowed? they would deem the landlord as crackers, but oooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh getting off my soap box before I bubble over, you stick to your guns and your reversed peace sign babe and show em what for!

Mimi + Me

5th Jul 2006, 12:39 PM

Good news that you were right about Cooper's age, bad news that you've had problems with your yard.

At the end of the day, horses are our relaxation, fun and respite from the other stresses that we all have to deal with in other parts of our lives. Hassle, bitching and snide comments from the YO/other liveries is not something you need is it?

Well I'm glad to know I'm not alone because I'm having a few probs myself with where Mimi is, so I may well be hunting for new Surrey accommodation for her in the near future!

You just have to weigh up the pros and cons of where you are and when the cons start outweighing the pros I guess it's time to move on!

I'm actually really surprised that you were having the odd problem, you always seem so positive and optimistic, I really enjoy reading Cooper's progress each week although I don't always post on your threads.

Take care and don't let the bu****s get you down :D

teabiscuit

5th Jul 2006, 12:44 PM

Whatanejit

5th Jul 2006, 04:29 PM

Cheers for the words of support guys.

I only hinted at issues before on cooper's thread but strongly hinted when replying to other threads of people in the same situation.

I have a busy, stressful job yet incredibly rewarding at times - I strike a good work : life balance which keeps me sane.

Cooper is part of our home life and we just couldn't believe it when the ill feeling started on our second day when we needed help the most.

Thank goodness for RI! Thank goodness for NR!

I want to share with you guys the stories about my horse and get your reassurance, advice and guidance - writing his / my / our diary takes a lot of time and I enjoy it by talking about him, evaluating what we did during the week and planning what to do for the next week. If I started to dwell on every conversation, look, intonation of the only negative side to our new life with Cooper it would really get me down. I am a glass is half full sort of a girl and that is how I cope with things.

I am also aware of how the internet makes the world a lot smaller and Coops and I are not exactly anonymous:D :D so was reducing the risk of anything getting back to them.

I guess I was also a teeny bit worried that they were going to be right and he was going to be a real baby boy.

I've made some good friends at the yard, I see the trouble makers for what they are, rise above it/ them and have a good old bitch in the pub with my livery mates - once again we don't do it too much as it can be so negative.

We would definately have gone if it wasn't for Coopers main handler, the head girl, as she has given us quiet words of support. We are very grateful to her.:)

So peeps don't think I have been spinning you a fairytale - it is all true I have just sensored a lot of the bad bits for my own sanity.:confused:

The flood gates have opened now, though and you know what - you havn't heard the half of it!!!!!!!!!!:cool:

Where is my Kenny Everett big hand? I'm off to the yard soon to get the big boy ready for RI to school.

xx

Dee

Skib

6th Jul 2006, 06:31 AM

Two questions watanejit.
Why is what you are doing with Cooper unorthodox? Sounds like textbook stuff from Kelly Marks and Michael Peace to me.
(and thinking of your trec practice day, I am assuming you have seen her leading and backing though L or S shape poles. I did that at a one day course once.)

And why did you call him Cooper?

BeachRiding

6th Jul 2006, 07:13 AM

That's great news! But, I would leave that yard ASAP!

Whatanejit

6th Jul 2006, 07:22 AM

Skib

1. Absolutely nothing unorthodox as far as I can see. But strangely, despite other horses on the yard having flighty, spooky problems we are the only ones who set up obstacles with flags, Tarpaulin etc. Lots of the yard are happy hackers who keep to themselves and then there are the eventing group. Once again they are mixed with some very nice people and those who are not so nice.

2. Why did we call him Cooper?

As Clare 22 is realising thinking of a name for your un named horse is difficult.

In summary, he is an Irish horse with Cob/ draught, TB and goodness knows what else in him. When we walk our dogs on the common there is a very dog friendly pub called The Jolly Coopers that we end up in for a little refreshment. No airs and graces but friendly and they don't mind muddy boots or dog hair.
So a Cooper is someone who makes barrels, ID were working and pleasure horses and somewhere in Cooper's ancestory OH and I though ( after a few gins and he a few beers) that they may have pulled barrels of Guinness around the streets of Dublin;) and hey presto we found a name.

So his show name is The Jolly Cooper:)

xx

Dee

capalldubh

6th Jul 2006, 07:47 AM

Yes, Dee,

When I was a kid (and actually, I think, fairly recently) there were still occasionally Guinness floats being pulled around Dublin by horses! They were lovely, too - but then as a horse mad three year old I thought the milkman's horse was perfect so maybe not very discerning!

I like your reason for choosing the name - and Cooper is a great name :)

fitz

6th Jul 2006, 10:41 AM

That sounds like a horrible atmosphere. I think if stuff like that went on in my yard it would really take my enjoyment out of riding. I'm quite vulnerable to treatment like that though... as I dont realise people are being deliberately nasty until afterwards.
Are you sure its not a good idea to move?
You're doing so well with Cooper.

Until last year, there was still one horse being used to draw fruit and veg from the city centre market in Dublin. Theres another horse in Rialto that brings coal around. Lovely big draft types

Whatanejit

6th Jul 2006, 11:43 AM

http://www.wandsworth.gov.uk/Home/LeisureandTourism/Museum/Heritagetrail/towncentre.htm

Scroll down under the map to see pics of draft horses pulling the Young's brewery cart in Wandsworth. Just heard they are planning to close the brewery soon, though.

We did a tour of the stables about 10 years ago - gorgeous horses.

xx

Dee

fitz

6th Jul 2006, 11:49 AM

They're beautiful horses. The Dublin versions pull flat bed wagon things, and are a wee bit scruffier than that. Real auld Dublin stuff:D

someone spoke to me like that last year and I kind of listened to them at the time... but it really knocked my confidence for weeks.. I wish I'd thicker skin sometimes cos I dont think I'm doing a bad job of keeping two horses healthy, happy and going well when I've no proper income..

HairyCob

6th Jul 2006, 07:56 PM

Could write an epistle about yard antics weekly never mind one about me and Coops but am leaving that for a good bitch in the pub.

Don't forget to invite me!;)

Seriously, sorry to hear that there are 'problems' at your yard, but it sounds like you have it well under control, and know exaclty what you will and won't tolerate, so good on Ya girl!:D

Can't believe 'they' thought Coops was two or three... eeejits, actually no, that's not a good thing to call 'em, is it, W'jit? Ar*£holes is more like it;)

cazrider

7th Jul 2006, 07:41 AM

Such a shame you have to go through all this Dee.:( and very well done you for not letting it get to you.

Look forward to hearing all the stories in September. Sorry not to have responded to your PM, but have been away with work for three days. I will reply today.:)

Clare-22

7th Jul 2006, 08:20 AM

When I said unconventional I meant from the old school horse people point of view :) Thankfully I think with increasing interest, magazine articles and books to educate people that there is a different way to develope the relationship between horse and rider, people are becoming more open to it, but it doesn't seem to reach the special breed called YOs!

I know I will get mocked and teased when I get the flags and the tarpalin out :rolleyes: I am already getting stick for not throwing any old saddle on the horse previously know as Splat, I refuse to run the risk of causing him discomfort and my saddler can't come out for another 2 weeks, I am happy to wait and work on the ground work and lunging but the others think I crazy. As they did when I refused to put a bridle on until the dentist had seen his teeth. I am apparanty far too soft and scared to do anything with my horse :rolleyes:

Whatanejit

7th Jul 2006, 08:54 AM

Grrrrrrrr Clare!

I am thinking of getting a rope halter - pressure halter thingy to do some groundwork a la kelly, monty, richard maxwell. To do all the pressure and release stuff - they can be abused though..........

Oh Clare I had another thought today re obstacles - I am going to a charity shop to try to get a cot mattress a la michael peace suggestion and then I thought what about bubble wrap - you know the big bobbly one!

Coops was on a sand track yesterday and stood on a plastic mobile phone holder thing that someone must have dropped and it made a cracking noise which surprised him. Large, popping bubblewrap could be great fun to play with!!

You are in a good position Clare - you have had previous experience and have knowledgeable friends so you don't need to refer to the YOs.

Good luck with them.

xx
Dee

Tots N Dots

7th Jul 2006, 11:50 AM

I am apparanty far too soft and scared to do anything with my horse :rolleyes: lol, ohhh I can join you in that club :D it was once commented to a friend of mine that "Bev doesnt ride she just has horses" since one of them was 2 years old at the time and the other one's poll was out of line so he was lame? ummmm. what am I supposed to do wave a magic wand or be accused of cruelty? just cause I dont want to break in a horse at 2. and I am not on a yard, but it is assumed that its because I cant do it and I am scared. well in a few years when my "pony" is trashing them at show jumping and cross country? heeheehee reversed peace sign to them too! :D :D :D

teabiscuit

7th Jul 2006, 12:03 PM

ignore 'em all
xxx

i posted this in your thread about Pickles and insurance, but it goes so well here that i copied and pasted it

"I live two miles into a forest with only one set of nieghbours who are completely non horsey so i get to do things my way with no beaky nosers messing with my head.

i've read so many posts where other folks opinions are inflicted upon NR people ...

it's usually from people who think you're being to soft/slow/nice etc to your horse too, i noticed that.

I don't know how you put up with it, i take my hat off to all sufferers of nosey interferers.

rant over, sorry"

Clare-22

7th Jul 2006, 12:18 PM

Grrrrrrrr Clare!

I am thinking of getting a rope halter - pressure halter thingy to do some groundwork a la kelly, monty, richard maxwell. To do all the pressure and release stuff - they can be abused though..........

Oh Clare I had another thought today re obstacles - I am going to a charity shop to try to get a cot mattress a la michael peace suggestion and then I thought what about bubble wrap - you know the big bobbly one!

I have found my rope halter invaluable to be honest, he respects it nicely and it gives me a bit of confidence to wander round with him when he is being big and nosy :o But you and Cooper sound like you are well past that stage ;)

Bubble wrap is a great idea, cheap and easy to get hold of if it gets confiscated :D

Can you recommend any books on the desensitising side? I have Kelly Marks Perfect Manners which is great but would like to get some more :)

coverblown

7th Jul 2006, 11:06 PM

Dee its great to hear that he is the age you originally thought, vindication is so sweet. And you are doing such a great job with him, against the odds which are obviously just becoming apparent.....

The yard issues are pretty significant but I think you are quite right to assume that they are everywhere; once you scratch the surface there is bitchiness etc on most yards, and we get round it by forming our own groups and alliances like you have done... so do do do take your time about considering whether to stay or leave. And Cooper does seem happier; and the grass is always greener.....

However if its that bad, and I had picked up the little references in your threads, then why is it such a big and popular yard? I'm not suggesting for one moment that you think its bad enough to leave - indeed it seems that you don't - but that all the good and bad has to be weighed up, and a judgement made. It just makes me wonder why so many stay and put up with the YO and YM's rudeness, disparanging remarks and callousness about their customer base - their source of income. Remember who pays their wages.

A.

Whatanejit

8th Jul 2006, 06:32 AM

AAH - it used to be a farm - in fact the history is quite interesting but I'll not go into it.

Given that we live in surrey and that part livery is usually £500.00 per month:eek: - £360.00 per month makes it quite attractive especially if you are a parent and are keeping two horses.

It is really set up to be a DIY yard and they have only started doing Part livery over the last few years as assisted DIY business was growing.

Clare. I have the Kelly Marks books which I think are a nice foundation read.

Hairycob lent me two books recently.

1. The 100% Horse. How to create the go-anywhere, do-anything horse. Michael Peace and Lesley Bayley.
HC mentioned that I might not find it useful as I was doing nearly everything in the book anyway. After reading it I got a few extra ideas like buying a small mattress for him to walk over, getting him to walk through narrow spaces and the last challenge to go up and down steps! But really, apart from that we are doing everything that he recommends in the book with brolleys, balls, tarpaulin, bags, flags - all taken from Trec obstacles or recommended by lovely NR peeps. So without being cockey - if you look at the few vids with Cooper and the desensitisation stuff, that is the book covered..

2. Unlock Your Horse's Talent in 20 mins a day. A 3 step training program for every horse. Richard Maxwell and Johanna Sharples.

Now, I really like this book and would definately recommend you buying it. Richard has taken the paralli, monty, kelly and traditional methods and combined them in a way that us ordinary folk at home can just get on with it.

I've been banging on about long reining for a while now and he explains it nicely, emphasises desensitisation and has some very kind and passive explanations regarding getting your horse to accept the contact and work in an outline.

I am very impressed by it hence the interest in the rope halter all of a sudden.

Hope that helps.

xx

Dee

Clare-22

8th Jul 2006, 07:05 AM

Thanks Dee :D {scuttles off to Amazon}

Skib

8th Jul 2006, 08:10 AM

One of the girls at our yard had Richard Maxwell out to her pony and he taught her to long line within the 2 hour session. I booked a hack with her to hear about it and was very impressed by her account of his visit.

Although Michael Peace does brilliant demos on desensitising, and I like his approach, I thought his latest book was disappointing.
So it is worth mentioning that there is an alternative American book by an ex policeman which looks as if it has more detailed exercises. I didnt buy it as I was loyally waiting for the Peace book to come out.

Rick Pelicano, and Tjaden Lauren . Bombproof Your Horse: Teach Your Horse to Be Confident, Obedient and Safe No Matter What You Encounter . J.A.Allen, 2004. Notes: Paperback 192 pages

You may well be doing all these things already Dee but since Claire asked. if I had a horse, I would look at this one. I have also learned that any horse book from J.A. Allen is likely to be good quality. Because he is a riding enthusiast.

Whatanejit

8th Jul 2006, 09:36 AM

Cheers Skib - you are a great source of information!

I'm having a Kelly Marks associate come out on the 21st July.

My RI is great as you know but there are just some things that don't motivate her - ground halter work and long lining. YO uses it but whips the horse in front with a lung whip!

So, I thought I would get professional help to keep us on the right track and get some guidance on a few other things.

I've managed to get Gina's mum and May's mum interested so she will be spending the day with us.

May has a napping problem and a phobia of trailers after having an accident in one so we are hoping she will help us with that.

Can't wait to be honest.

xx

Dee

Sparklie

8th Jul 2006, 11:15 AM

Dee...you already know that I've had problems with people on my yard trying to belittle me because I don't do enough with my horse. Ok so I don't jump him over big fences or the scarier cross country fences but hey...I have a fear of jumping and I'm dealing with it thanks very much.

I think that the work you do with Cooper is fantastic and so so varied. As I've been training Pepper (who is only 3 and incredibly spooky) and everyone is expecting me to have jumped and cantered her loads and hacked her to god knows where and back. In theory we're taking it slowly with Pep as she didn't have the best start (with the idiots who broke her in) and have no intention of rushing it. We wouldn't dream up jumping her, she's walked over a pole a couple of times and we've only just started canter as previously she wasn't very balanced.

Keep up the good work...oh and enjoy getting one over on all those who doubted Cooper's age :D

nicolaj

9th Jul 2006, 07:57 AM

Hi There, just reading this post, what a load of ***** you're having to put up with!

As others have said I would suggest moving especially as there appears to be so much comings and goings of horses all the time! However, the decision is yours to make and when you feel ready you will know!

Good work with the ground stuff, people think you are barking sometimes, but hay at least you'll be able to ride or lead him by the carrier bag in the hedge rather than him taking off for home! At lot of people (not on NR) think that the public at large should act and behave in a certain way round horses, but that just isn't going to happen and so we have a responsiblity to help our horses.

I have a rope halter, but after a while Cheeky Boy becomes 'used' to it and doesn't respond. The Kelly Marks RA, pointed out, that although there is nothing wrong with them as such, they don't always give the instant release of pressure, so horsey thinks 'oh well it's not 'giving' so I'll just carry on anyway.'

If you are working with him well in a headcollar and line and he is responding, then stick with it. In my other thread, I mentioned the Dually halter, which I am thinking of getting, but my hoss has 'learnt' his strength so sometimes need some backing up, also read they are good for long lining, so will probably get one. I've read that the 'be nice' ones put pressure on the poll as well, which you may not want with you boy. Perhapes put a post on asking what people use and why along with the benefits? Might be a useful read for us all!!

Anyway whatever you decide good luck!:)

Tots N Dots

9th Jul 2006, 09:46 AM

I have the Richard Maxwell pressure halter (have pm'd you) , and it is a problem that they dont give instant release, Pickle hates it with a passion, I think its to much for him but I would use it if we were having communication problems

my personal opinion only but be nice halter :eek: :eek: :eek: would only use one with a severe problem horse and then very very carefully, have seen horses react very badly to them,

I use a Dually with Pickle out on the road, but I have to cover the rope bit with a fur noseband cover, such a sensitive ickle pickle, :D

I love the Richard Maxwell books, I have Birth to Backing and the 20 minutes a day one,