Napping

[Tessa42]

Can anyone give me some advice I have has my gelding for nealy a year now, for the first 7-8 months just worked with him on the ground to build up our relationship, started riding in the school with the help of an instructor he was very reluctant to work to start with but soon relaxed when I did but was always hard work, for the last 3 months we have been hacking out with others from the yard he goes well never wants to take the lead, but if he does he is very jumpy, the other day we were going out and we had to open a gate to go out, I tried to go out first he was not having any of it instead he spun round and waited for one of the others to go out first.
For the last couple of months aswell he has been reluctant to go into the school he rears spins round and runs off not very far but enough, we try again he does the same, the first time someone had to go in first on foot and lead him in once we were in he then worked again slowly, and we always try to finish on a good note.
We also have a track which takes us all round the outside of the fields where the horses graze i have taken him round there on my own and he has been very spooky even though he can see the other horses,:eek:
Any advice on confidence building would be appreciated, thanks

[KateWooten]

How old is he ? Was he a youngster when you got him ?

My initial thoughts are - if he was young, is he the first horse you've started ? If so then it's quite easy to go through all the motions of groundwork without ever really getting at the root of it - the trust and respect. He's not trusting you. He's not saying 'ok, that cold look a bit scary, but hey boss - are you scared ? nope, boss isn't scared, so it must be safe' .That's the dialogue you are looking for from your young horse. (well, that's what I'm looking for !) I'm not expecting a horse to throw away all his fears and trust me unthinkingly - but I do want him to look to me for answers.

Tell us more about the groundwork you have done with him and let's take it from there.

Also - what do youdo when he spooks and doesn't want to go forward ? A good way to encourage this behaviour is to lean forward, shorten your reins, tense up and kick and pull and shout all at the same time. One way to discourage it is to sit back and sing, exhale loudly and take the opportunity to put his feet to work forwards backwards left and right .. what fun, to practice some dressage moves ... over and over ... ok and now rest, and walk forward again. Soon walking forward gets to seem like a lot less work.

[Tessa42]

HI i KATEWOOTEN IVE SPOKE TO YOU BEFORE MY LAD IS RISING TEN WE THINK I BOUGHT HIM FROM AN IRISH DEALER A YEAR AGO, HE HAD COME DIRECT FROM IRELAND 10 MINS OFF A LORRY AND BROUGHT HIMUP TO MY HOME 2 DAYS LATER, HE WAS AT A YARD FOR A WEEK MOVED, AT A FRIENDS FOR THEE WEEKS THEN MOVED TO WHERE WE ARE NOW.DURING THE WINTER HAD DONE NOTHING BUT GETTING HIM SETTLED AND GETTING TO NO ME, THEN IN EARLY SPRING HAVE LUNGED HIM UNTIL I NEED TO DO MORE WITH THE HELP OF AN INSTRUCTOR WHO HAS GOT ME RIDING, MY HORE IS 17.2 WHO HAS BEEN THROUGH ALOT AND HAS SETTLED DOWN NICELY, BUT THESE ARE NEW THINGS WE ARE TRYING, WHEN I FIRST HAD HIM HE WAS A REARER IN HAND BUT HE HAS NOT DONE FOR A LONG TIME.
WHAT i AM FINDING DIFFICULT IS HOW FAR DO I GO TO PERSUADE HIM TO GO FORWARD WITHOUT A SERIOUS ARGUEMENT.

[fitz]

Are his teeth, tack and back ok? I know everyone says the same thing, but any time I've had bad napping issues with my horses, teeth or tack were contributary causes.
I'd start bringing him into the school, but not necessarily riding him every time. Maybe bring him in and groom him or give him an apple, or let him have a roll in there after a bath.
Its quite unusual for a horse to be lacking in confidence so much when in a group, so it is quite possible that something might be hurting him maybe.
Do you know how to long rein? Even leading him out in hand could be a good idea for the time being to bond with him and develop trust.
Are you nervous of this horse, or confident around him?


Can anyone give me some advice I have has my gelding for nealy a year now, for the first 7-8 months just worked with him on the ground to build up our relationship, started riding in the school with the help of an instructor he was very reluctant to work to start with but soon relaxed when I did but was always hard work, for the last 3 months we have been hacking out with others from the yard he goes well never wants to take the lead, but if he does he is very jumpy, the other day we were going out and we had to open a gate to go out, I tried to go out first he was not having any of it instead he spun round and waited for one of the others to go out first.
For the last couple of months aswell he has been reluctant to go into the school he rears spins round and runs off not very far but enough, we try again he does the same, the first time someone had to go in first on foot and lead him in once we were in he then worked again slowly, and we always try to finish on a good note.
We also have a track which takes us all round the outside of the fields where the horses graze i have taken him round there on my own and he has been very spooky even though he can see the other horses,:eek:
Any advice on confidence building would be appreciated, thanks

[Tessa42]

The teeth, back were my first priority and he has al new tack which was double checked by my instructor.
He is confident with other horses he just doesn't have the confidence to go first. Whe we went out last my daughter went on her pony and 2 others came. My daughters pony ran off with her four times in different areas and could not stop, which made my lad go. I could not stop him without stopping my daughters pony first. It was quite scarey, I would like to work on schooling with him but lack confidece to do it on my own when he is reluctant to go in, its only an open paddock nothing special.

[KateWooten]

Ah yes - I remember :) I'll go look up some previous threads to get some more perspective ... briefly though - try to never get into a serious argument at all. That sounds like you should avoid difficult situations - but it's not like that at all. It's just that YOU are in control of the 'tone' of the ride. You can decide whether it's serious and stressy, or laughing and sun - even while you are dealing with difficult behavour.

Let me tell you about a day last week with my little mare, Rosie. She's just 4 and starting trot work with bend and flexibility. This is a shock to her. She was quite happy walking about aimlessly with her head in the air. All she had to do was trot round one more little circle and we were done. She told me 'no' and dived out the side - over and over again. I decided if that's what she wanted to do - advanced lateral work - then that's what we would do. We spent the next hour trotting sideways at great speed and then backing up a hundred yards at a time - fast - until she decided that it would be easier to trot that one last circle for me. In the end, it was her idea to trot the circle.

Now - having read that story - what is your mental image of me and mare while we're trotting sideways at great speed ? Do you see me with teeth clenched, short reins, tipping forward ..'making' her work... showing her who's boss ? That would be a typical reaction. I want you to throw that mental image away. Instead see me sitting up, even slightly back, long reins, mare stretching orward and down, we're laughing and lighthearted as we think 'ok, you only really needed to do a little circle, but wow - great - let's do your sideways movements instead - I always love to do hard work with you Rosie, because you're SO good at it :) ' And plenty of hugs and praise.

It's not about a serious argument. When you put their feet to work, do it with great good humor - just like any other section of training. Horses don't really do emotion like people do - anger, resentment, punishment ... none of that really, so in working with your horse, pick one emotion and stick to it. I pick 'happy' :)

Did that help any, or am I just rambling on again ?

Oh - I just thought - here's an article I found yesterday which explains so much better than I can why in practice it's a good thing to 'buy into' a program like johnLyons, or PatParelli, or Clinton Anderson when you FIRST start getting serious about horse-learning, and horse-training :

http://www.lessismorehorse.com/Step-By-Step%20Training%20Programs.htm

[fitz]

I was having issues with my youngster last year. I just wasnt getting on with him and becoming very frustrated. It wasnt his fault, it was mine. I went through a fairly bad run of luck last year and it just affected my whole attitude to life. Ditto what Kate said about being happy when working with the horse.

I sent him home for the winter and just worked with my old mare whom I feel confident on as well as youngsters in the yard. Now I have infinitely more patience, and enjoy just hanging out with him. I actually like him now and he's returning that attitude.


Something like that might not be the answer for you, but if you're not enjoying working with your horse, you should look for an alternative approach.

[Tessa42]

I am thinking of going to a riding school to gain confidence on other horses, as a mature lady all that fear issue steps in, not like that as a child, I used to ride jump all in the yorkshire dales.
My fear sets in when I am away, its like I am convincing myelf something bads going to happen.
My claim to fame went to school with Steven Smith.:D

[NoviceNic]

Tessa42 - No disrespect to you but I am certain he is feeding off your fear. Have you ever got off him when he starts to nap?? Or even taken him out of the school?? I bet there is a time you have done this. I bought a ex riding school cob and he is 90% perfect. His only hang ups are when we are solo hacking or at local shows. He hadnt done any of these until I had him so he can be very nervous. I too am then nervous and anxious and before you know it we are going around in circles and running in all directions.:eek:

However with a lot of determination, support from the mature thread and RI's, we are both working together on our issues. ;) As for your question of how much do you fight with him to make him go forward depends on you and the horse.

1. Are you giving him the correct signals to go forward as Kate Wooton has suggested?

I used to take a whip out with me and give one smack to ask to go forward after nothing else worked. I dont like using a whip but when you are a very high speed main road you have no option but to get over quick. Captain now crosses the road without any bother.

In another situation though the whip did not work. I took him to a local show. We were very early and there was only 1 other horse there. I asked the course builders if I could ride around the course as he and I were nervous and my OH is not good at holding Captain on the ground when he is nervous. They agreed but would Captain walk into the ring. Like hell he would. Planted his feet. I used legs to no effect and then the whip. 1 sharp smack and he decided he was going backwards. Got into a bit of legs, whip, legs whip circle thing and realised we were getting nowhere. So stopped and stood there took a deep breath and sat back. He then decided to walk in albeit sideways. The moral of this long story (sorry) is, I was nervous he was telling me if you dont want to go in there Mum I wont. :rolleyes: Get yourself onto the Mture thread and ask for advise. We have alll been fighting our confidence at some stage and still will continue to so we support each other through the hard times. :)

[Tessa42]

No I have never got off and I think your right he probably is reacting to my fear and thanks for the advice, I will try the mature thread.

[notpoodle]

maybe try getting him in the school on his own first (ie not as dangerous as trying to hack alone, by the sounds of it) and get someone to lead him from the ground while youre sat on him?

or could he be taking advantage of you ie. he has decided he is boss and does as he pleases?

Julia
x

[Tessa42]

I put him back in the school lunging only last week first session he was not listening at all and full of himself, second session much the same but listented a little quicker, third time he was a good boy and we are back to where we were four weeks ago. i think because we havn't schooled for 4 weeks he was begining to be full of himself and the last few times trying to ride him in the school he wasn't having none of it spinning and running away from the entrance. tTonight we will have ago ridng him into the school, and he wont be hacked out untill we get a bit more listening.

[NoviceNic]

Sounds a good plan Tessa. Keep him in work either by lunging him or schooling him. Do we get to see a piccy of him??:D

[Tessa42]

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[Wonder Horse]

[QUOTE=KateWooten]

Let me tell you about a day last week with my little mare, Rosie. She's just 4 and starting trot work with bend and flexibility. This is a shock to her. She was quite happy walking about aimlessly with her head in the air. All she had to do was trot round one more little circle and we were done. She told me 'no' and dived out the side - over and over again. I decided if that's what she wanted to do - advanced lateral work - then that's what we would do. We spent the next hour trotting sideways at great speed and then backing up a hundred yards at a time - fast - until she decided that it would be easier to trot that one last circle for me. In the end, it was her idea to trot the circle.

Now - having read that story - what is your mental image of me and mare while we're trotting sideways at great speed ? QUOTE]

Hi Kate,
I promise that I am not being 'funny', but is that a good idea on a young horse (just 4).Whose body hasn't matured?:confused:
I agree with some of your points for an older horse.