shod or unshod???

[H & Bailey]

Hi just reading the thread about hoof oil...
Larri what type of horse is Saffi as you said she goes unshod and does loadsa road work?I have a 3-4 yr old cob x pony and he didnt have shoes on when I got him but his feet were all cracked so I got the smithy to shoe him..obviously hadnt been done before.He needs shoeing again as he had lost a front shoe but his feet look alot better do you think I should shoe or go unshod.I am leaving him off for a bit till spring then restarting him.He is quite slippy on his feet as his balance is not that good yet,he will be doing a bit of roadwork but we can get off the roads a little.When I got him I rode him out once without shoes and he was a bit tentative but I dont know if that was cause his feet were a bit flaky.
What does every one else do?
I have also used Kerratex on my last horse (TB mare)she had terrible feet but found that the Kerratex hoor hardener stopped them chipping and splitting nad she seemed to keep her shoe on longer.I also feed Seaweed as this is supposed to be good for feet???

[Piaffe]

As your horse is so young, why not just have fronts on? I've currently got a TB and their feet are well known for being very poor, however I've been using Cytek shoes for about a year and they seem to have made quite a difference to his feet. I also feed him a bit of veg oil in his feed which also seems to help.

My farrier has explained that with cytek shoes (like natural balance) the frog has more contact with the ground, therefore stimulating the blood supply to the foot, which in turn causes better horn growth. So I guess if the foot is unshod for a length of time, the horn growth will become better and stronger? Not too sure about this, but perhaps have a chat with your farrier and see what he thinks?

Its a difficult one, this - only you and your farrier know what your horses feet are like!

[lamprellsarah]

horse that have there shoes off after a time there hooves become stonger and more dense, my last cob did endurance riding with me, while i broke him in, his hooves did crack and wear down but he wasn't shod!! then about 4 months on a change happened they stopped cracking they became hard they never cracked or got worn down, the farrier said he was so good, he would check him, but only trim his hooves every 4 months!!
my first ponu was also like this,
i think it's fantastic if you can keep shoes off, alhtough with my new older horse, i think it's too late she has very poor hooves and shallow soles, and i don't think it's possible unless i stop riding her for a few months and give her time to sort put her hooves!!
i think your pony could sort herself out, keep an eye on them, and don't worry if she is slightly tentive she would be plus she is't used to being ridden and is young!
once you shoe them it's harder to go back! :)

[Piaffe]

My horse is now 19, going on 4!! His hooves were always bad when I first got him, but for a year with the new shoes his feet have improved tremendously - my farrier even said he could probably go without shoes now - but I don't want to risk it! and he's a TB!!

[lamprellsarah]

what are these new shoes like?? how much do they cost!!??? where do you get them from??? they sound interesting!!! and maybe good for my mare.
also how do they work and improve the horses hoof quality!!???

[larri]

Hi Bailey - Safi is a rising three Lusitano, very fine and compact. I walk her out in hand and lead her out from Merlin and you cannot get to any bridleway without a good 10 - 15 mins road work at least and two of my circular rides involve 3 -5 miles of roads
Shes never been shod and her feet are fine, no cracks or splits. She's down to a trim every 10 weeks over winter and I use Keratex which is brilliant. - I also use that on Christa when she's unshod which is 9 months of the year. She's a thoroughbred, and will do roads quite happily unshod.
the only supplements I feed are equivite and a splash of Cod Liver oil, I used Blue Chip last year and saw no difference in condition for the expense so quit.
I'm not fanatical about being barefoot - If her feet deteriorated I would have her shod, but I think it's a slippery slope - once you start messing the horn whacking nails in it it's a long hard job to get the quality back.
I'd speak to your farrier about going without shoes as he will be better able to assess your horses condition.
Good luck!

[Piaffe]

Lamprell, These shoes are called Cytek and are very lightweight and come in, I think, three different sizes. They are put on cold and are set further back on the foot than normal shoes, so that the horse has it's natural breaking point in the right place on the foot.

The shoes can last for up to 3 months!! But they can cost up to £60 per set - my farrier seems to charge a different amount each time he comes!!

I have to say, they are good. Not only has my horses feet condition improved, but he stumbles less and is more sure footed. Check out the website - www.cytekhorse.com

Natural balance shoes are supposed to be very similar, which are available from your usual farrier.

[lamprellsarah]

natural balance shoes i will ask about these next time, do they look the same as normal shoes!?????????
the shoes aren't too bad a price but add on the putting on it will work out a bit expensive for me, also my farrier, comes up everytime they are need doing this means she would have to go only 8 weeks or 16 weeks, and he won't be up there at 12 weeks!!!

[ponyvet]

ironically by placing them further back, they actually bring the horses foot balance forwards. The problem with most horses in the uk is that their foot balance is too far back. This means that they are too long in the toe, and too low in the heels. I'm going to be posting more info about this later on.

you can also ask your farrier to shorten your horses toes and to make the normal shoes longer at the back. This does mean there's more risk of your horse pulling off the front shoes by stepping on them with the back toes, so a horse which over-reaches could be a problem.

[Wally]

I'm doing it right then!

My teacher is a good 'un!:D Phew! Nice to see things confirmed by a vet!

[lamprellsarah]

thanx ponyvet!!! chancer has no heel apparently!!! don't quiete know what he means but how does this affect her!!???

but she deosn't have a problem with over reaching as she is fairly long in the back!!!

[M-A]

I have a horse who I used to have trouble keeping shoes on, due to her brittle feet. She is a TB, and I was often told that this is common with the breed. I tried to manage the problem by using a hoof suplement, and my farrier and I both noted a slight improvement after approx 10 months.

I had been toying with the idea of going totally barefoot for about 3 years, with my pony. She is a native cross with good strong feet. During this time I did a lot of research, and looked at a lot of horses who were being worked without shoes. Eventually, I felt confident enough to dispense with shoes on both horses. As expected, my pony had no problem making the transition to barefoot. Predictably, my TB's feet cracked a bit, up to the nail holes in some areas, and she was not comfortable walking on hard surfaces for a short while. Her feet did however grow more quickly without shoes, particularly in the heel area. As new horn grew down from the coronary band, it was visibly thicker and harder. It took approx 9 months for this to grow down to ground level, a rate of just over 1cm growth / month. Once this became the wearing surface of the hoof, I could hack out on the roads without excessive wear, or any soreness. Both horses feet needed frequent, regular trims, despite doing roadwork.

The big disadvantage of doing this with a horse who has poor feet, is that you are likely to have to pasture the horse, or drasticly reduce it's workload for some months while it's feet adapt. This will vary from horse to horse. The advantage, if done with care, is healthier hooves in the long run.

[H & Bailey]

I will have to ask the farriers advice..he is quite good and is from Ireland so will probably have experience of 'barefooted' horses.
I have read somewhere that the feet have to be trimmed differently from shod horses??
Do unshod horses slip less on the roads?
As Bailey is young his balance is not that good as yet,and his back feet tend to slip a little.

[elle]

i had my horse shod for the first time about 3 months ago and shes still got her shoes on now, the farrier said she had very good feet but they grow slowly so shes still got the same shoes on becasue i havnt rode her much so they havn't wore down much. there not loose either.

She was broke in without shoes and did quite a bit or roadwork without shoes but we started jumping her in autumn when it was slippy so we had shoes put on.

Shes 4 yrs old, and a welsh d. do you think she would be ok to go back to being barefoot or would her feet not be good enough for road work now, i would like not to shoe her at all so do you think she would be ok jumping without shoes?

[lamprellsarah]

yes they are trimmed slightly different and they do slip less on roads!!
jumping without shoes is no prob as you don't do it on bad, hard ground!! and so it's soft on their feet and they are fine!!!
her feet will rpoberly still be quiete tough but you will still need to introduce her back to it slowly, a welsh pony up at our yard had her shoes put on at 10 yrs old as no one wanted them but the grirl did and 6 months later she had them off, and she was slightly sore for a few weeks but adapted quickly!!!

[ponyvet]

Saz,

if she really has dropped heels, her heels are pretty much touching the floor when she walks, then you have no chance of being able to raise them again to normal height.

Having no heel means that she is beaqring weight on the back of her foot, more than the front. The heels are senstive, and you can think of it as how you feel if you've been wearing high heels all night. Your feet get sore because you are carrying more weight on one part of your foot than you should. Your foot is designed to carry weight evenly right? Well chancer is carrying more on the heel so this will be uncomfortable. In some horses this causes lameness, which can be intermittent, or it just reduces their performance somehow. The horse may be slugginsh. usually people notice the difference more when the foot is corrected, as they've never known the horse otherwise.

I think you should ask your farrier to rasp back her toes and put her in a wedge shoe (forget about the length at the heels for now) and do this for the next say 4 times shes shod. After that her toes should be shorter and her foot should be more compact. Then you can ask him to keep the toe back and to shoe her with extensions at the heel.

Wally love, after all the other shoeing chats we've had I know you've been taught well. :D

Elle, a welsh D should be fine unshod. try just front shoes at first and see how that goes, then go for no shoes at all. remember though to make sure your horses feet are trimmed very regularly, as they are more susceptible to damage when unshod, as they are not protected, and are not held together.

Bailey, I don't think it makes any difference to slipping on the road or not.

M-A, funny you should say it took 9 months for the thicker horn to grow down as that's exactly how long it takes for the average hoof horn to grow from top to bottom. I usually say to people it'll take a year for a hoof defect to recover, coz then if it's shorter than that they think I've done something brilliant!!

[Duchess]

I have a TB who is unshod and has perfet feet. He has much better grip on the roads now he is barefoot. He does jumping and a fair bit of roadwork and has no problems. It is so much more natural for a horse to be barefoot but I know not all horses can cope.

[H & Bailey]

Do your (the barefoot people) blacksmiths get a bit funny with you about coming out as you are not spending as much money as shod horses?Ive just managed to get this balcksmith as they are like gold dust where I am.

[ponyvet]

They shouldn't be, especially since you may need to use your blacksmith more frequently as you need to make sure your horses feet are trimmed well when unshod. Even if they are wearing down on the roads, you need to make sure they are wearing in the right places, and they probably won't be! :D

If your blacksmith is funny about you wanting to leave your horse unshod, then hard as it may be, find another one. If he doesn't want your money, tough!

Regardless of what you are talking about, if someone you pay to provide a service doesn't provide it well, then stop giving them your money and find someone else.

[M-A]

Hi Ponyvet,

Ta for your comment on hoof growth. It's really good news as my horse's hooves used to be very slow growing :cool: . Keeping shoes on her was a nightmare, and my farrier often had to troop back to replace one after less than a week. Often she had lost a big chunk of hoof wall, and the gap would take ages to grow out. I knew it wasn't his fault, as my pony, hardly ever lost a shoe. I think the only time, was when she pulled one off in the trailer on her way to a show. When shod, my horse would need virtually nothing trimed off her heels, and about half a cm off her toes. She was shod every 4-5 weeks. Now I have tried a different approach, she needs more trimming, even though she must be getting some hoof wear on the road!

[Duchess]

I have a really good farrier and it was him who suggested trying my horse barefoot. If your farrier is truly dedicated to the welfare of your horse then there should be no arguement regarding money. He will also come out just to do a trim on one horse.

[lamprellsarah]

our farriers are also like gold dust around here, i don't think he would be over keen if i asked him to take chancers shoes off, but i certainly would not be able to change!!! but i think he would still do it if i asked him,
our farrier is sooooo hard to get he doesn't pre book cos he does racehorses and so you have to nag him and nag him around the time you need the shoes done and you can be waiting over a week!!!

[H & Bailey]

Hi my blacksmith also does a racing yard in the village and thats his main priority but if he is done there or he leaves his apprentice on site he can shoe other horses.
I have gone through 4 blacksmiths ..my last one was great but as I have my own field rather than being on a yard, and he can pick and choose buisness he would rather' stay at home at his forge than traipse around muddy fields' his words.I am quite lucky to get on the new smithys books as he is so busy.

[H & Bailey]

Hi just an update.The blacksmith has been today and took Baileys shoes off.He said his feet should be ok for a hack occasionally and we are gonna see how they go.
In the spring when I start off again he may need shoes on depending on the amount of roadwork I do.l