Canter Signals

[PonyMadGurlx]

I've been riding for neally a year, I can canter fine, But it's just getting into canter, Putting my outside leg behind the girth seems to have no effect, When I kick, I loose my stirrups and go all wobbely, I really like cantering, but I just hate the feel of dissaponitment after the lesson where I've only managed to get one canter out of about 5 attempts, and thats just from pure luck, I'm obviously doing something wrong myself because other people can get the horses to canter It's just me, Has anybody got any tips? :confused:

[Sammii]

Try not to put yourself down, just make sure you have your heels down and also make sure even though your outside leg is behind the girth that your inside leg applies just as much pressure as your outside leg otherwise this will cause your horse to push the trot forward from the outside. If you are doing this and it still isn't working then use a whip to back up your leg aids.

Give with your hands as you ask for canter and as you approach where you are going to ask use half halts to get your horses attention back to you.

[Pink's lady]

Most beginners problem with getting canter is that the horse isn't going anywhere near forwards enough to make it into canter. So when the rider asks, the horse just ignores them;)

You NEED to get a trot that's being forward going, probabaly more so than you're used to. Their legs shouldn't be going at a million miles an hour but they should feel powerful. Too fast and they are too on the forehand (weight on the front legs) and rushed to organise and lift themselves into canter, but too slow and they'll never make it.

Once you've got a very forwards going trot, so they feel like they're about to break into canter anyways, sit in the saddle, absorbing the movement and make sure your hands are relaxed but don't drop the contact too much. Kick/nudge hard one stride then the next bring the outside leg back a little (doesn't need to be more than 6inches) and nudge hard again with both legs. When they are making the transition, make sure you don't fight the movement and let it go.

Alternatively - The 'sitting trot' part should really on be a stride or so, but when you begin riding most people bouncy for ages. That's often very uncomfortable for the horse and they have no intentions of going any faster;) The rider also tends to grip the reins for balance and pull back.

When Ali learnt to canter she did so in a forward seat. She would slightly lift her bum off the saddle (no real distance, just weight into the legs), with a secure leg position and no 'tipping forwards', loosen the reins and hold onto the mane. She'd then get a forward going trot and, still in that postion, ask for canter. Pink found the much easier than Ali bouncing about all over the place on her.

Then you just need to keep it;)

[eml]

Echo Pinks lady and check you have an active but not too fast trot...this is particularly important with a lot of cobby types who if they trot too fast fall on their forehand making canter an impossibility.

Another thing that may help is to work on your sitting trot to ensure you give a clear seat signal when you ask for the canter, practice combining this with balancing half halts.

Also make sure that you are allowing with your hands, lots of school horses are keen to please but will take a non allowing hand as the sign that canter was not what the rider wanted, ask your instructor about exercises to loosen your shoulders and elbows if you think this may be an issue.

Finally and it might sound fussy but when you put your leg back do you 'flick' it from your knee or move from your hip. Lots of horses actually respond to the seat aid change rather than the leg so a 'flick' just won't persuade them you do want to canter.

Just don't panic it is a fairly common problem that just goes away with practice!

[EquestrianRider]

I've been riding for neally a year, I can canter fine, But it's just getting into canter, Putting my outside leg behind the girth seems to have no effect, When I kick, I loose my stirrups and go all wobbely, I really like cantering, but I just hate the feel of dissaponitment after the lesson where I've only managed to get one canter out of about 5 attempts, and thats just from pure luck, I'm obviously doing something wrong myself because other people can get the horses to canter It's just me, Has anybody got any tips? :confused:

How do you ask for the horse to canter? You've stated that you put your outside leg behind the girth and kick, but that doesn't work. That doesn't work because that is not how you properly ask for the canter. In addition, you should not be kicking the horse. You should be using your calves to ask your horse to go forward. Kicking and "nudging hard" (as said by Pink'sLady) simply irritate the horse and make it sour.

You do have an instructor, correct? It's extremely important that you have a certified instructor to teach you how to do this properly.

Try to pick up the canter on a nice big circle. This may help the horse to pick up the correct lead. Take a couple deep breaths, relax, and sit the trot. What caught my attention was that you said that putting your outside leg behind the girth didn't work- that's because you aren't supposed to be just using your outside leg; you're supposed to be using both legs. Slide your outside leg back, behind the girth, and then squeeze your legs (specifically your calves). You should not be kicking your horse to make it canter, remember. Squeeze your calves, if your horse does not listen (and give it a chance to respond, don't be impatient), squeeze again, perhaps with more strength, and if it again does not listen, you can give a little kick (sort of a wakeup call). I'm hesitant about telling riders to kick and/or use the crop, specifically when they are beginners, because it just teaches them to kick and use the crop all the time. A good rider can communicate effectively with their horse without the use of a crop to force it to do as the rider asks.

I agree with the others about giving with your hands, and also, although it is difficult when you are trying to get a canter, tensing up just makes it harder to get the horse to canter. The horse will feel you tense up, and it won't be as willing to canter because it feels your hesitance. Relax, and just go with the flow.

Pink'sLady said:

"Once you've got a very forwards going trot, so they feel like they're about to break into canter anyways, sit in the saddle, absorbing the movement and make sure your hands are relaxed but don't drop the contact too much. Kick/nudge hard one stride then the next bring the outside leg back a little (doesn't need to be more than 6inches) and nudge hard again with both legs. When they are making the transition, make sure you don't fight the movement and let it go."

While I do agree with her comments about forward impulsion being essential to having a smooth transition into the canter, I disagree with her advice to "Kick/nudge hard one stride then the next bring the outside elg back a little (doesn't need to be more than 6inches) and nudge hard again with both legs." First of all, when you squeeze with your legs to ask for the canter, your outside leg should all ready be back behind the girth. Secondly, her advice to "Kick/nudge hard" is inappropriate. Horseback riding should not be so forced and unpleasant. Sure, we need to be firm with horses because they are so much bigger and stronger than we are, but why would one want to kick a horse to make it do something? The idea of horseback riding is working with a horse and becoming one with it. A person from the sidelines watching a rider and a horse should ideally not be able to see the rider asking the horse to trot, canter, or halt. The two should be a communicative team. This kind of team is what wins in the show ring. Not a rider who kicks a horse's sides to get it to canter. Kicking and "nudging hard" will simply cause bad habits to develop for the horse, and will inevitably create a sour temperament and unwilling attitude.

Good luck!:)

[Pink's lady]

Not ridden many riding school plods recently EquestrianRider have you ;)

The likelyhood of getting a stale and fed up riding school horse to canter by 'squeezing gentley' with your calfs is next to nothing. They will totally and utterly ignore it :rolleyes:

With a beginner rider the amount of force they can get into a hard nudge is very very little - it takes a long time to build up the muscles needed to give power to their nudge. I could proabably manage to break ribs if I kicked hard :( (not that I ever would) but a novice rider just haven't got the muscle strength and a 'hard nudge' is about right.

I can get my own horses to canter with nothing more than a seat change and a slightest brush of the leg, but it takes a long time and a sensitve, well schooled horse to be able to do that. Whilst learning, and especially on a RS horse, a very defininte aid is required to even make them think of cantering. Once Ponymadgurl had done quite a bit more cantering, then she can work on refining the aids.

[EquestrianRider]

Not ridden many riding school plods recently EquestrianRider have you ;)

The likelyhood of getting a stale and fed up riding school horse to canter by 'squeezing gentley' with your calfs is next to nothing. They will totally and utterly ignore it :rolleyes:

With a beginner rider the amount of force they can get into a hard nudge is very very little - it takes a long time to build up the muscles needed to give power to their nudge. I could proabably manage to break ribs if I kicked hard :( (not that I ever would) but a novice rider just haven't got the muscle strength and a 'hard nudge' is about right.

I can get my own horses to canter with nothing more than a seat change and a slightest brush of the leg, but it takes a long time and a sensitve, well schooled horse to be able to do that. Whilst learning, and especially on a RS horse, a very defininte aid is required to even make them think of cantering. Once Ponymadgurl had done quite a bit more cantering, then she can work on refining the aids.

I actually ride riding school horses every week Pink'sLady! Haha. :p

First of all, I would like to say that I never intended to start a fight with my previous post! I like to get along with everyone on here, and perhaps this is just a difference of opinions. :) Anyways, I understand where you're coming from by saying that there definitely are the pokey riding school ponies out there, and that they can become desensitized. I've just seen too many riders (older now, with their own ponies) competing in shows and flailing around a jump course, kicking their pony, and relying on a crop to get them over a jump. :( Notice, however, how I did suggest the tried and true method of ask, tell, demand. I'm not saying that a kick isn't necessary to jumpstart a horse now and then, but let's see if we can't get a rider using the proper method of their calves as much as possible.

And if this is the case with a pony, then perhaps a different riding school pony would be more appropriate. There should be much more selection in a riding school than just "a stale and fed up riding school horse." My stable for example has a variety of well-rounded ponies to suit every level of rider.

Of course, this is my take on the matter. I of course respect yours, and I appreciate your opinion. :)

[laura jeanne]

One mistake I made for a long time was that I would lean forward as I gave the canter aids. Make sure you are sitting up. If you are sitting in good balance yourself in the trot, and don't get yourself out of balance by leaning forward, and time the aids correctly, it should work.


There is a good article in Practical Horseman this month that describes the trot/canter transition. I tried it on Saturday and it worked really well. It tells you to give the aids over 3 strides, each as the outside hind is on the ground.

[Berry]

EquestrianRider can I come to your riding school instead of mine...?:D

At my RS I used to flap about and feel like a right idiot asking for canter because the horse just ignored me half the time unless I did a pony club kick whacked with the crop - I hated doing that but it was just so sour and lazy that was the only way I could do anything with it. I couldn't change his training in one hour especially being a novice myself so I just had to ride the only way he would respond :(
I felt like I must be giving the aids totally wrongly for canter for a long time and I got quite disheartened.

Started riding a friend's non-RS, dressage schooled horse - first time I asked for canter I got it easily and realised that I was in fact giving the correct aids but the RS horse was so unresponsive - quite an eye opener riding a well schooled horse for the first time. Went back to RS with my knowledge of nudging and some strong calf muscles and couldn't even get the thing into a walk...:D

I don't know what PonyMadGurl's pony is like but I wouldn't get too disheartened if it's a riding school type.

I hate the 'kick and whack' style of riding too but unfortunately those are the only aids a lot of RS horses understand and so the way a lot of beginners get taught to ride.

[fuglyjowls]

One mistake I made for a long time was that I would lean forward as I gave the canter aids. Make sure you are sitting up. If you are sitting in good balance yourself in the trot, and don't get yourself out of balance by leaning forward, and time the aids correctly, it should work.


There is a good article in Practical Horseman this month that describes the trot/canter transition. I tried it on Saturday and it worked really well. It tells you to give the aids over 3 strides, each as the outside hind is on the ground.

Good advice there - I too used to lean forwards when asking for canter (on ploddy RS types:rolleyes: where you HAVE to use a lot of leg to get them to listen) and I found it quite difficult to use my legs and sit up at the same time whilst bouncing around in sitting trot.

Laura Jeanne - can you post the details of that article as it's not clear what you mean by "give the aids over 3 strides" - would love to know the details:)

[Soupdragon]

RS ponies and horses are lovely and where would we be without them, but they do have their little ways and not all are as responsive as we would like!

I always had trouble with canter transitions at riding school - sliding the outer leg back and nudging with calves would have no effect and I would end up kicking away or using the whip (not something I liked doing either) and losing my balance, tipping forward, so everything would just go to pot and all I got was speedy trot. Due to switched off school ponies, this meant I developed a really bad lower leg position and got into the habit of kicking with my heels as opposed to squeezing with my calves - something I still have trouble with now.

It was a relevation to me when I started at a different school with schoolmaster horses - I only had to THINK canter sometimes and off they went!! I was taught there to use the weight aids more, and at first it was all exaggerated for me - stand up in my stirrups slightly, point the inside hip forwards (as opposed to consciously sliding my outer leg back) and off the horse would go into a beautifully controlled canter. It obviously got to the point where I didn't actually physically stand up in the stirrups anymore, and the slight shift in weight and the thought of canter would be enough for the transition ... if only all horses were so beautifully schooled!

I think I would try to get a nice trot, then hold onto a handful of mane or neckstrap with outer hand, sit back (to counter any tendency to adopt foetal position!), point inner hip forward (which should have the effect of bringing your outer leg slightly back), squeeze/nudge with calves ... if nothing happens, squeeze/nudge again and slight flick with whip with inside hand, bringing hand off reins if necessary so as not to pull horse back in the mouth ...

I actually found it easier to do walk to canter as everything is slower and there is more time to think!

Good luck

PS I still have trouble getting trot to canter on my new pony - he is quite dead to the leg (old owner wore spurs on him) but we are working on getting him more responsive and he is improving! He now does quite nice walk to canter - I think because I am not rushing the aids and he realises I want canter and not speedy trot!

[Berry]

Soupdragon I just had to post again to say that's almost an identical experience to mine - and it took me a long time to stop kicking as well. It's so much harder to change when you've learnt something wrong initially.
My horse is not quite as good as those schoolmasters, but it is such a difference. Makes you feel so competent :D


if nothing happens, squeeze/nudge again and slight flick with whip with inside hand, bringing hand off reins if necessary so as not to pull horse back in the mouth

One point - at my RS we only used a crop so you had to take your hands off the reins. Using it on the shoulder usually had the desired effect and was easier than trying to reach behind. I actually found the crop easier so it might be an idea to try both a crop and a schooling whip and see which one suits.
Still haven't mastered that schooling whip flick yet...

[LMayhewtx]

Dear PonyMadGurlx,
I know exactly how you feel! I have not been cantering as long as you, but I have the same problem. Some lessons I do not succeed in getting a canter out of her, and it is very disheartening! My lesson horse, Carly, is a "small horse with big attitude", as my instructor says. She is not a pushbutton kind of horse, but I wouldn't give up riding her for any other horse in the barn!

The one thing that has really helped me is to ride her assertively from the very beginning of the lesson. So, when we are walking around, when I ask her to speed up her walk, and she doesn't listen to my leg, I back it up with the crop. I do the same with the trot. When I do that from the beginning of the lesson, asking for canter goes much better.
I also found that I was not giving enough with my hands, and wasn't prepared to move forward with her and then would pull on her mouth. Giving with my hands prepared me to keep my balance as she leaped forward.

I have enjoyed reading about everyone's experiences with cantering!

[Tootsie4U]

Firm and insistant is probably the best option but I wouldnt necessarily say that the OP needs to use loud aids (kicks), beginner rider or RS horse doesnt matter.

Thats why these RS horses are so numb. How will they ever learn to listen to lighter aids if everyone's being told to kick them on?

Not only that, but then you risk the rider depending on loud aids and good luck to her if she ever does ride a more sensitive horse.

From the get go, riding schools should be teaching the correct methods and sticking with it. No exceptions for 'needs to build the muscle' or ploddy horse. Both rider and horse will and can learn to do it right if they're only presented the option to do it right. Until the muscles are made, use a crop. Thats what they are for - to back up your riding aids until you dont need one.

[PonyMadGurlx]

Oh wow :D! Thankyou for all you're replies I really appreiciate it :) ! I'm glad I'm not the only one having this problem, I'll repost you about how I get on at my next lesson, Hopefully with lots of cantering :p

Thanks Again!

[laura jeanne]

Fuglyjowls,

Here's what the article says: (they actually do each cue twice, so over 6 strides) and they are on the right rein.

Trot to canter - they are on a 20 m circle

1. My right seat bone is a bit forward, with a little more weight on it. My right leg is at the girth; my left leg is about 4 inches farther back. My left shoulder is slightly forward and my right shoulder is slightly back, staying parallel to the horse's shoulders. As we cross the center line and approach the rail, I make the first of the six requests, timed to the moment when his outside hind is on the ground, because tht's also the first step of the canter stride. When my right knee drops, which tells me his outside hind is on the ground, I say "En-" and establish a bit more right bend by gently closing my right fingers. At the same time, I close my right leg, asking him to soften his rib cage and step more underneath mimself with his inside hind. When my left knee drops, I RELAX my aids. In the next step, my right knee dorps and I say "large" and repeat the aids. Again, when my left knee drops, I relax him.

2. In the step after that, as my right knee drops, I say "slow" and, with my left hand, give a little half-halt, closing my fingers on the left rein as if I were squeezing water out of a sponge. I RELAX my fingers and, in the next step, say "down," repeat the aid, and again relax my fingers.

3. The next time the horse's outside hind is on the ground and my right knee drops, I say "and" - and, even though my left leg is back behind the girth to indicate the lead I want (the right in this case) and my right leg is at the girth to tell him to move forward into the canter, I close both legs together so my driving aids are equal and the same. In the next step I RELAX my legs, and in the step after that I close them again as I say "canter" - and the horse strikes off without hesitation.

Canter/Trot transition-

1. When I ask for the trot transition, I once again do it within the ryhthm of the canter and at the moment when he's supporting all of his weight on his outside hind, because in the next step he'll be seamlessly trotting on his diagonally paired inside hind and outside fore. His withers and mane come up, so I know all his weight is on his outside hind, and I make the first of the three requests for the trot transition. I sit "tall", close my fingers on the reins - a bit more on the left rein to keep him straight - and slightly close my legs with a little bit of knee and thigh to restrict his forward motion. Then I RELAX my aids.

2. I felt his withers rise a moment earlier, so I sat "taller" and closed my fingers and thighs a bit more, as I continue to do now. In another moment, I'll RELAX my aids again.

3. The third time his withers rise, I sit "tallest" and close my fingers and thighs the most. In the next moment, when I relax my aids again . . .

4. . . .he's still cantering on the outside hind and inside fore, but he's already trotting on his inside hind and outside fore. And. . .

5. . . . in the next step, he is solidly trotting on both diagonal pairs. Becuase I made the transition within his rhythm, he's balanced, with no need for any quick adjustment steps to catch up with himself.

Me now:
Okay, there are pictures that go along with this so I hope you can follow.