cantering 20m circles

[Mark]

I sometimes have difficulty cantering 20m circles depending on the horse. There is one school horse I very occasionally ride who makes it easy but I generally ride one of the less reponsive horses - I think this is better for me because it means I have to work on being much clearer and more accurate with my aids.

Anyway, the other night we were going round the outside track and had to break off one at a time to do a 20m circle in canter. Had great difficulty trying to turn off the track and the instructor was saying that he was trying to nap up the school to catch his mates up who had reached the opposite end and I was clearly giving out the wrong signals to counteract this. Needless to say we ended up in a bit of a tangle but my brilliant instructor made me keep going until I got it right (about 3rd or 4th attempt). I'm now trying to work out what it is I did to successfully complete the circle as I was getting rather confused at the time :rolleyes:

I remember being told to shorten the outside rein, carry the stick in the outside hand, and to use a lot of outside leg to block his drift up the school. Presumably I would have had my outside leg just behind the girth, to bend the quarters round the inside leg, but would have been applying more pressure than usual to help block the drift. However, on the face of it, shortening the outside rein would seem to send out a contrary signal in that it would stop the horse’s head from turning in the direction of the circle – or does the leg position make it sufficiently clear that I want him to turn so that the shorter outside rein merely acts as a blocking mechanism and is not misunderstood as a contrary aid? – or have I got all this wrapped round my neck?

If you understand this question, and I’m not sure I do having read it back, I'd be grateful for any advice or comments on cantering 20m circles in general.

Mark

[Kerry's Partner!!]

I'm not an expert Mark but my instructor would expect me to use my outside leg FIRST to signal "move off the track" (your inside hand just asks for a slight bend you see - and it's a secondary aid). I think ('though others are very free to correct me) the order is this: point with your inside hip and ask with the outside leg (leg aid). Don't worry about taking your outside leg back deliberately because if you point with your inside hip your outside leg will be in the right position (HELP Heather!!!). Also, use your outside rein by "lowering/closing" it against the neck. At the same time the inside hand is also asking for a bend in that direction but it is much much more subtle (squeeze a sponge). AND look in the direction you want to go. If you can manage to remember all this whilst you're doing it remember as well to turn your head to look where you are going. What the experts manage to demonstrate as easy is actually quite a challenge I feel!!!!!!!!! Good luck.

[Mark]

Many thanks Sandra

That's a very clear explanation, am re-reading about bend and flexion in my book as well. All very well in theory but will no doubt go flying out of my head in practice:rolleyes: So, do I need to use the outside leg more to bend the horse around the inside leg?

Mark

[Kerry's Partner!!]

I'm not sure how to anwer your question Mark. I'm always a bit worried about giving advice because I've still got so much to learn. Anyway, here goes. With my horse my instructor does tell me to use my outside leg to signal move off the track (i.e. onto the circle) and again to meet the next point of the circle on the track. I hope that makes sense. I'm not sure if these aids apply when riding other horses but my horse - especially on one rein needs to be asked this way.

Again this might not apply to you but when asking for a circle especially I have always had a tendency to lift my inside leg back (getting better but still needs lots of attention nevertheless) and my instructor says that this makes it very difficult for my horse to bend around the inside leg (because the lower leg has disappeared so there's nothing to "bend around"). I have to say that when keeping that leg stretched down it makes a tremendous difference so I'd agree that this must help my horse quite a lot.

[Mark]

Thanks again Sandra. Tried some of these things out tonight and it seemed to help, although I was on the 'easy' horse again. Now I seem to have lost the ability to transfer my crop between hands without getting caught up in the reins though! I think someone said on these boards recently that the human brain can only keep 7 tasks in mind at the same time - I don't come anywhere near that!!

Mark

PS Will there be anymore Southern Central meetings?

[Kerry's Partner!!]

Nice to have the update Mark and it sounds like you did really well - "easy" horse or not. I might just take the initiative re another Central South meet. What do you suggest - a similar type of get together (and if so in what area this time) or should we try to organise something around "the stables/school" then the pub afterwards? I'm quite happy to attend anything really but I'd also be prepared to ask our yard manager if she could book us some type of group lesson despite the fact that we're likely all to be at different levels of ability (with me nearer the bottom) etc. What do you think?

[kedwards]

I sympathize with you Mark, I'm always getting confused about precisely the right way to ask for the circle, as it sometimes seems that I get varied and conflicting advice. Ultimately, I think it comes down to the need to make adjustments based on what the horse is doing - which leads to minute changes in aids. I imagine that's why the advice sometimes seems conflicting, but I'm still not at a stage where I can make these adjustments readily. My instructor says to move your inside hand in somewhat to ask for the turn, then ride from inside leg to outside rein (giving inside leg aid to ask for the bend and keeping contact on the outside rein). She asks for outside leg if the horse is drifting his hindquarters out, and more inside leg and outside rein if he's cutting in. I think I've said it right, but I still can't put it into effect very elegantly.

And yes, maybe we can remember 7 little bits of information at once, but there's at least 7 bits just in remembering "heels down, eyes up, back straight, look where you're going, maintain leg contact, fingers closed on the reins, elbows in...." and those are there before you even start thinking about your circle. So, you could say we're way beyond the average 7 bits for remembing to turn at all.;)

[Mark]

kedwards, I know exactly what you mean, it's making the corrections which can throw you because to me they sometimes seem counter-intuitive. For example, using inside leg to ask for bend, as you say, when cutting in - to me that would feel like I was trying to push the horse out which is where the position of the outside leg comes in I suppose. I think I might book a couple of private lessons and try and get this sorted!

Sandra, those are very good suggestions, maybe we can discuss them 'offline' via pm with a view to starting a new thread later?

Mark

[kedwards]

Oh well, I probably translated my instructors commands all wrong anyway. Just highlights the point, I suppose, about how confusing it can all be.

[Cathy Reynolds]

My instructor says (I think!) it helps to keep the circle going from outside hand (raised slightly higher) to inside leg (pushing slightly outwards to bend the horse round you like a banana), just feeling with the inside rein so you can see the eye, with your head turning where you are planning to go. This also gives you the shift of the inside hip at the same time.

[Mark]

kedwards, I was actually agreeing with you:) I was just trying to make the point that to do the right thing you often have to override your instincts - which can be difficult for me. I realise that other peoples' instincts may be correct but in my case they are usually wrong!

Thanks for the further advice Cathy, will try everything out - if I can remember it!