Standardbreds for endurance

[No_Angel]

Anyone had experience with standardbred horses doing endurance?

[Wally]

I used to ride a saddlebred X Arab, he was divine! fast, comfy and so, sooooo comfy.

[Pink's lady]

They're got fabulous stamina and are usually much more laid back than TB's so get less fizzy and waste energy. They can trot for hours and hours. Only problem might be that they find canter hard work.

P.S Wally - standarbred, not saddlebred;)

[No_Angel]

they sound fantastic:D
how tall is brodie pink?

[Pink's lady]

He's 15.2/15.3hh, which is about average, but i'm off to see a 16.2 STB mare on wednesday. They're well build (very solid TB) so look and ride bigger - they also don't have much withers.

Cue gratuitious brodie picture;)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v715/Pinkslady/Brodie/Brodietrotting2.jpg

[No_Angel]

I think that 15.2 is my limit, lol, i used to be able to get on my 16 hand horse, but i dont know if i could get up that high anymore:D

Wheres the best to get a standardbred then? ive seen them on the trotting sites but they seem to be racers

[Pink's lady]

They're very hard to get ahold of - they're just not seen as ridden horses over here. I've had a good look but there desn't appear to be a STB re-homing group, unlike TB's:(
You'd just have to look around in general sales.

But when I'm getting a new horse, it'll be a STB and the first place I'll be looking is harness racing forums, asking around if theres any needing re-homing.

Unless you find one in general sales, you'll need to do some reschooling. But they're cheap - I've seen quite a few going for £500 or so.

And there are a lot a 14.2 STBs out there.

[Pink's lady]

P.S they'e lovely horses but can be very opinionated, bulshy and dominate, so not for the faint hearted. They're also very brave and laid back if they're happy that your boss.

[No_Angel]

ha, sounds like my welshie:D :rolleyes:

Most on the harness racing sites seem to be going at around £1300
heres the sales list ive found http://www.welsh-trotting.co.uk/standardbreds-for-sale.php?category=All

[Pink's lady]

I've had a look on there - they're racing standardbreds.

Have a look on horse sale sites and type in 'standardbred' or standard bred' into the searchs.

[Pink's lady]

She (http://www.thehorseexchange.com/AdvertsSQL.asp?ID=26228)sounds nice

another (http://www.thehorseexchange.com/AdvertsSQL.asp?ID=23824)

Thats just off one site. Have a look about - they're out there;)

[No_Angel]

ive just found this first one- she sounds perfect:D i was just coming on ehre to post about it

[fitz]

Duch is half standard bred and honestly... I just cant tire her out.. She will trot forever... She has amazing stamina, a lot more than Werner. I'd say they'd be a good choice for endurance.

[Shadowlark]

Long as you don't really want to canter ;) Damn shame as there are TONS of them over here in need of homes.. Heck I have one in my back yard right now that I don't think her owners want.

http://www.animalnetwork.com/horse/Breed_Profiles.aspx?aid=4261&cid=61&search=

Found that on a quick search.. they talk about an endurance horse towards the bottom.. but the history etc is fun!

[ambatt]

My trainer is just starting and schooling a young Standardbred gelding - he is supposed to be a very sweet chap. He will be for sale.

[Santi]

I bought Santi from an auction in wales for £600 (supposed to be buying a welsh cob...) felt very sorry for the horse, see photos!. He was left in a field for a year so in a very sorry state and awful feet. I had no idea what a trotter was. When i was walking him round in hand (he was lame for 9 months with abcesses) i was told they are unridable and i'd never hold him, they need a man to train them because they are difficult etc..

He's a lovely horse. He isn't going to be doing dressage tests but he looks great, keeps like a cob, (good doer and lives out with a shelter) and has lots of personality!! He's about 15.1hh.
He is 'argumentative' not 'difficult', because he thinks about things...we've been round the arena once and you want to go round again? weren't you paying attention the first time?.
I'd say they they are only 'difficult' because they are intellengent and Santi has quite a sensitive side. He likes to trust me, he loves hanging out and i never met such a sensible character. He doesn't batt an eyelid at the skip trucks coming at us in narrow lanes but loves looking in everyones garden for dragons.

The re-training of the ones that have raced is not completely straightforward (or would be quicker if you have more experience than me!). They pin their heads up and back to race so although Santi uses his back end well ('natually uphill' they said at riding club!) he doesn't flex at the poll ...and they can do "very strange things" with their feet. Just about anything is possible; walk, pacey walk, trot medium and ultra fast huge lopey trot!, canter, disunited canter and a very strange kind of pacey canter (i can't ever quite work out what the sequence if his legs is in that!). Can also do piaffe when nice fillies are around but not on request!

He was also pretty mouth traumatised (look at the bits they use- yiiks!)but is happy in a Spenger ultra kk. I broke him in bitless to begin with.

I couldn't recommend them more highly - i won't ever part with him, i wish they had a better reputation and people actively retrained them like the TB racehorses. A standardbred is a much quieter natured horse and very easy to look after.

There is a book called "Retraining the harness racehorse" which i got from america, which was great (until i lost my copy - rats). All the horses the Amish use in america are ex-trotters.

Last photo is him with a 16.2 TB type so you can see how much stockier he is, (and how fat!)

[No_Angel]

Thanks santi:) Where was this market then, i may be popping over the border:D

He looks lovely, in between build with my sports horse and my ex racer:)

[Santi]

It was at Llanybyther, its a pretty big sale every month, i'm sure you'd get a trotter through there every so often, there are many more of them in wales, its a cheap man's racing (not so many in suffolk where he is now).

The auctioneers are Evans Bros. 01570-480444
The sale is the last thursday of the month, if you send them a pounds worth of stamps they will send you the sale list a day or so before the sale. Give them a call to make sure thats still right, i was there a year and a half ago.

Its really easy to come home with a horse from a sale! they only take cash though so you can't go over budget but having a few hundred pounds in your pocket (and knowing that its only the meat man and you!) I'm really glad i got Santi and not the welsh cob i went for - buy a lame trotter - best stupid idea i ever had (thats what i think when i take him to riding club now!)
:)
Pinks lady - do the stbreds that haven't raced have any of the gait issues that the pacers have?

- I just went through your photos of brodie, he looks great. Did using that pessoa help him with his head carriage? I haven't tried any equipment on Santi to change his but i wonder if i should?

[Pink's lady]

All standardbred pace or trot natuarally. However if they've raced it's drummed into them that cantering is BAD! and shouldn't even be thought of. They are then trained to move at that gait (trot or pace) VERY fast, which changes their muscles and becomes a habit.

So a totally unraced STB will have been allowed, or even trained to cater normally so they find it much much easier. Often they will find the trot easier though due to their build, so may revert to that if stressed, naughty or don't understand.

[Santi]

Hmm, Santi has always cantered for me and does in the field too (so i'm lucky he thinks its ok) but he much prefers to do it in straight lines, he seems to find it genuinely difficult on circles even huge ones.

[Pink's lady]

Seem to be a STB trait that they don't bend. Not to sure why but every one I've ever ridden doesn't/can't bend. :confused: I suspect It's something to do with the gait.

[Dina]

Heres abit about Standardbreds and endurance,
http://www.geocities.com/endurancestbs/selection.html
My STB is a great horse,he does have a strong personality and can be abit pushy sometimes but its nothing I can't control.
To ride hes great,I can hack him all day if I wanted and he would'nt get tired,he trots and canters but he does sometimes pace if he has'nt trotted for a while but out in the paddock he will trot and canter around.

[entreat]

Great choice for endurance!

Standies can't bend because of their racing muscles and it takes a VERY long time to work them out of it. They usually start their ridden lives very unbalanced (don't have any cross-the-body coordination or muscle development) & you have to alot of work at walk & trot in straight lines... assuming of course that they will trot! Breaking the pace is a challenge, but once it's gone, it's usually gone for good. Canter is something that shouldn't be attempted until he's trotting a balanced and energetic 20m circle on both reins. they don't have the muscles or coordination to do it, and then they do it too early in their retraining, they rush, are so much on the forehand they could skin their noses, and often buck because they can't get their feet to do what they want. Retraining a standie takes lots of time and patience.

Their backs are usually very flat too. I can pick all the STBs at my yard because of their backs!! This is because of breeding (so comformationally flat backs) and unilateral muscle groups used in pacing. Saddle fitting is a challenge because normal saddles are shaped for a back with a nice curve to it. Put it on a standy back & you have big bridging issues, Pinching/sitting on the wither, or pressing on the loins. As you retrain your STB you have to have his saddle fitted more often than other breeds because he will be changing his shape all the time. And becuase of this, they require massage/chiro work a bit more often than other horses who already have the bilateral musculatur.

They can be very rewarding horses. My friend has on that adores me at the moment because I give him massages! He follows me around the yard & wants to in my skin! His owner said he never does that to her! LOL!

You'll also find that they don't spook as much as other breeds (esp. TBs!!), but instead stop dead & stare at the object. Very cute, IMO.

Most I've seen though have an "enough is enough" phase in their retraining. They get brain overload and all the smallest things flare them up. Saddle fit, bridle fit, bitting, back pain, hoof pain, cantering! they have little tantrums over it! They get over though, with consistent work, patience, and sensitivity.

[Santi]

"You'll also find that they don't spook as much as other breeds (esp. TBs!!), but instead stop dead & stare at the object. Very cute, IMO."


...thats soo true, i didn't know they all did the sudden stop thing! he isn't trying to get me off he just stops dead, good for my lower leg position...

I've got a Barefoot treeless and given how much he has changed shape i am so glad i did, it fits him brilliantly.

[Tizer]

Interesting post !!!

2 years ago we had a heart ruling head moment and bought Tilly, red/white 13'2.
She is the kindest natured and honest pony I have ever come across, she has an almost human attitude to life, she was bought for my grandaughter and has proved herself to be a saint in almost all aspects of her new life,excellent to hack and traffic a brilliant jumper and would make a great games pony for a confident child. And therein lies the problem asking for any faster work canter etc and as previous reply's have said the head goes up and away she goes, we have little hope now of retraining as she is now in her late teen's, and sadly this is proving to be a problem as g/d enjoys schooling and would like to do more PC dressage, but with the mare struggling to work on a circle and with little bend it looks like we may have to look for something else. Not for sale though as we love her to bits.

[entreat]

Your GD can do it, I'm sure, but just takes longer than other horses. Start with really gentle pole bending exercises at walk, and circles & serpentines. Start a 20m circle and yeild in to a 10m and then back out again. For trot work, down the long side of the arena, wave in and out about 5 or so time, just coming in off the track, and back again in nice fluid bends (I bet the horse wont even know she's bending!), and gradually increase over several training sessions.

Late teens is fine for this kind of work. You're not asking her to anything over challanging. You can even get her to stretch her sides with her favourite treat by standing at her hips and holding the treat to her. You may have to start around mid back to get her to reach, but as she becomes more acustomed to it, you can bring the treat to her hip and have her hold the stretch before giving her the treat.

[Dawn_connie]

Most I've seen though have an "enough is enough" phase in their retraining. They get brain overload and all the smallest things flare them up. Saddle fit, bridle fit, bitting, back pain, hoof pain, cantering! they have little tantrums over it! They get over though, with consistent work, patience, and sensitivity.


We bought our Connie in July, 15.2, standardbred mare, 5yr old. Ex-trotter, unbacked, ect ect. Our first horse, and my dad, who is the better rider, though uinexperienced, was riding her in 3 weeks. Very easy. Put a saddle on em and off you go. Canter is hard work, very hard work, and she has a habit of side-stepping. But the above is happening right now with her. She is being a little cow!

However, its winter and she has been used to her enduance, which she loves!

think its a phase? any tips on 'disapline'? ie, not throwing a atntrum in the morning when were not quick enough with breakfast?

thankyou!

[Alex T]

oh i no the enough of enough stage i have a 22year old standerbred hehe i have little phases of lets try to get a nice circle ...... yeah it doesnt happen much not with out the cowkicking and several rears latter stage and at the last time i tried to school him we had a new trick of rearing and as soon as i land buck (he nearly got me i only expected a rear or two) i wanted to take him endurance but was told hed never pass a vetting however he can trot for miles far further than i can much to his disapointment!!!

[entreat]

think its a phase? any tips on 'disapline'? ie, not throwing a atntrum in the morning when were not quick enough with breakfast?

If she's pushy around food, you should give meal-time yeilding a go. I do it with my horses as it re-affirms with them that I am dominant. Basically, you are doing a form of 'Join up' but with a bucket of food in the middle of the yard with you. Your aim is to keep you horse out of your personal space (and the bucket). If she needs a bit more of encouragement, gently swing a training rope or lead rope, and you can also use this to help in changing directions (yep - similar to Join up again), but I would never use a whip for this.

When you horse offers you submissive gestures (head dropped, licking or chewing of the mouth, etc), walk to your horse, reward her (with a rub or scratch) and then lead her to her food. I watched it change some very nasty horses in a few short sessions.

Does that help?

As for cantering Connie... try getting her to use & lift her back at trot for a while with trot-poles or cavalletti.

[pengapenga]

STB my hobby horse:D Over here in Australia we are trying to promote the humble STB has a good all round horse, there are some that do very very well in open company:D They are good for endurance, they have stamina and good feet too. They are characters and has PL has already said can be a bit bolshy and stubborn. Please don't be put off an OTT STB especially those that pace, they can be retrained to trot and canter with time and paitence. You will be rewarded with a lovely loyal horse.

To re-train use cavallettis, trotting poles, hills or sand dunes. It is difficult for them to pace over objects and uphill. By getting them to trot over trotting poles you will be developing the correct muscle group for trotting therefore they will be less likely to pace, although some will still break out into a pace when nervous or scared. They are also very unbalanced in canter so lots of balancing excersises to help them, e.g circles and serpentines. STB also work from the front end rather than the back end so once again lots of schooling and they will get there:) There are of course exceptions to the rule, i.e Mysty who does trot when she is in full work but canter is harder to get, this year we will be trying to encourage her to canter:)