over at the knee, ponyvet

[myEllie]

Hi, I have a fifteen, almost sixteen year old Thoroughbred mare. She is 15.1 hands. She is slightly over on her left knee. Because this is her first year jumping, we did beginner division. The fences are 2' to 2'6". She was the champion this year, so although, the rules say, you can do the division for two years, once you win it is frowned upon. I would like to move up to the 3' division. She is capable of doing this, as I have tried it out a few times. My question is, would this put too much stress on her knee. Her knee has been like this since I have had her, and has never given her any problems, but I want to make sure that jumping this height at a regular basis, would not cause any problems. I plan on having the vet check it out, when he comes out in March, but I want her back in heavy training within the next few weeks. Does anyone have any advice?

[lamprellsarah]

what do you mean by heavy training??
at 2 ft to 2 ft 6 there shouldn't be a prob, my horse is 20 and has a broken knee and she jumps 3ft!!!
if there is stress in the joint she will let you know keep an eye on it, though, maybe someone esle can help!!!

[ponyvet]

Like Saz says, providing she's not lame or there is no swelling in the joint I can't see that she shouldn't jump 3'. A lot of horses do perfectly well at this sort of minor competition level with much more severe conformation problems than this.

Be aware of what she has and keep an eye on it. Use your common sense and ifyou think she's struggling or not coping then stop. If it's a problem for her she'll let you know.

It's a good plan to let the vet have a look at it before you start, especially if you're worried about it, and then if any problems do arise the vet will have a starting point.

Good luck!

[myEllie]

Okay, thanks guys (well, girls). Her knee has never given her any problems, and she is ever just so slightly that most judges don't notice it, or if they do, it doesn't bother them because we always place top three in halter classes.
Saz, right now, we are only doing flat work as they ground in the outdoor ring is too hard, and I don't like the current footing in the indoor. Occassionally we will do some work over some small jumps, I am working with her trying to get her to settle in and wait for her distance, as she always wants to leave long, very long. Once we get new footing, which should be in a few weeks, I want to start working over larger jumps, and doing some more combinations.
I had the vet look at her knee last spring, and he said that he could not see it giving her any problems, but my mom is still very cautious about it. I actually think my mom just doesn't want me jumping. She cannot even stand to watch me jump two feet. The vet is actually coming up next week to check out my friend's horse, they think he may have cancer, so I will have him check her knee again.

Thanks again. :p

[lamprellsarah]

hehe sounds like my mum if she sees me jumping at all she has a heart attack!!
oh it's not as heavy training as i though then, i though you meant competeing hard, jumping high all the time and endurance!! but even so there is obviously a weakness there but it may well be stronger than you think!!
no judges if they think it's bad do look down their noses at you about things, when showing my horse because she has a broken knee and it does show in the summer, they always question it, or look weirdly, i mean it wasn't even my fault, i didn't have her!!

[myEllie]

No, her training isn't too hard. I ride, probably, two hours a day, five days a week, jumping usually two or three days. Then we work about an hour on showmanship when she is done. On one of her days off, all we do is showmanship for two hours. She just loves it :rolleyes: . Once the show season starts in the beginning of April, she will be competing every weekend, sometimes twice in one weekend.
I know what you mean about judges looking down their nose at you. My horse has a dent in her neck. Have no idea how she got it. She must have been young, because it's on her registration papers. In halter, some judges just stop and stare at it. I think it must make my horse feel very self consious. :D Usually, even though, they will look at it, they don't mark off too much.

[Catherine]

Does your mare have a dent on the side of her neck, the underside or the crest? If it's side or underside, it's called a Prophet's Thumbprint here in the UK, and considered a sign of good luck by many. The mark can be a concave area as small as a fingertip to the size of your palm.

Technically it's a disruption in the muscle structre at that point, but is not detrimental to performance and should not be frowned upon as potentially problematical.

Alternatively, there is a fable that you might prefer. The tale is that there was once an incredibly rich Arab sheikh ruler who bred horses. He had many hundreds of them and decided one day that he should stop breeding just for the sake of having horses, and concentrate on breeding to have the best and most devoted. So he sent all of his mares out into the desert and bade them to return to him after 40 days. Only three mares returned. As he greeted them back into his stables, he pressed his hand to each mare's neck and blessed her for coming home. These were the mares from whom he created his new herd, the foundation of the Arab breed, which has such a strong influence on Thoroughbred and Thoroughbred-types.

Two of mine (Thoroughbreds) have thumbprints on the near-side of their neck. Can't say I've been particularly lucky with them, but one is a cracking show hunter and the other is fab cross-country!

Catherine

[heland]

Catherine...what a lovely story:)

I have just bought a TB last week and he has a dent, but his lies where the shoulder meets the chest.

When he was vetted the vet did say you normally find these on the neck, maybe he's just a one off:D

Would his still be considered as a sign of good luck?:) Hope so:D

[myEllie]

Hey, so my little Ellie is lucky. The dent is on the side of her neck, and it is a little bit bigger than my thumb

[ponyvet]

What it is is a joint between two muscles. In most horses the join is so narrow that it's impossible to see and the muscles are effectively one single piece, but in some horses (especially arabs) the two muscles are quite distinct, and a band of fibrous tissue separates them. That's where the mark is. It is unusual to have it lower down, but all horses are individual and the exact position along the neck varies.

I like them and think they're beautiful.