mysterious weight loss...PLEASE HELP

[NINA WANTSA COB]

I own a 15hh cob mare who is 10 years old and in good condiotion. I've had her for just over a year and would like to be more prepared for when her weight drops severely over the winter.

Last year it was horrible to see just how much weight she lost, and I want to make sure that it doesn't happen as badly this year, and in the future. But I'm stuck as to what is wrong. Before replying, please consider the following:
her teeth are in perfect condition
she has a worm count of zero
she was not being over-worked
to start with, she had a large feed a day until she needed 3.5 scoops of feed twice a day (bad for digestion, I know, but 3 feeds wasn't managable) which consisted of: 1scp alfa a, 1scp bio care, 1scp sugarbeet and 0.5scp barley.
I have a great 450g rug to keep her warm in even the minus numbers (she lives out all day everyday)
she gets good quality hay/haylage in her field, which is large anyway

If I've forgotten anything please feel free to ask.

It could be that she is just a very bad doer with a high metabolism - super-model pony!! :rolleyes:
But please help me if you can, it will be very much appreciated.
Here are some photos from this years August 9th, if they're any help. In these photos she is, perhaps surprisingly, at her very fattest!
http://s15.photobucket.com/albums/a393/girlandcob/weight%20check%20august%209th%2006/
x Nina x

[atillathefun]

Hi Nina
Are you sure she is 10 because its usually associated with an older horse
How is she in her temperament is she calm or is she a worried?
Is her pooh normal ?? :eek: :D :D

[NINA WANTSA COB]

Oh it's you! Hi again!:
Yep I'm certain of her age because of her teeth and passport;
She was very worried and not that happy last winter because I had only had her a few months (Could that alone really affect her weight so aggressively, though? I never really thought about that...:( );
And yes her poo is normal - except when the new spring grass comes through, when it turns to cow pat, but all of the other mares in her field go through the exact same thing at the same time.

The worry thing could be it, combined with a high metabolism too, though. Oh, and she's fine now, by the way!!:p She's really really happy now, no where near how confused she was last winter.

You may have cracked it, atillathefun!
:D :D :DThank you so much!!:D :D :D

x Nina x

[Portia]

Might be worth asking your vet about her, perhaps a blood screen to check everything's ok (no reason to think it might not be btw, just 'dotting the i's and crossing the t's' so to speak). After that how about contacting an equine nutritionis, preferrably independent of the feed companies? Just a thought anyway.

[JackieC]

Hi your horse looks well to me, does your worm count include red worm, i think they can lay dormant for a while, if there has been severe damage in the past there would be tiny holes in the gut which allows vital proteins to pass through which relates to weight, my pony suffered loose droppings in the spring only much later in his life due to red worm damage, i fed him sugar beet and bran, there is a negative side to bran where it reduces calicum. I think the red worm count was through blood as it was his white cell count that was evaluated

[holiday]

Hi she looks well although she doesnt look overly "fat" so maybe she is just the kind of horse that struggles in winter, unless you can actually find anything really wrong all you can do over winter is give her ad lib hay and plenty of food i would feed barley, and if you can boil some barley for her - thats brilliant for keeping weight on and a nice warming food if it isnt totally cold, although its a nightmare it does work!!!!!!

[NINA WANTSA COB]

Portia -
Do you know of any problems that, potentially, could be uncovered from a blood test? And our vets are planning on doing a thorough presentation/discussion about nutrition in the near future, which I plan to go to.:)

JackieC -
As far as I'm aware, our worm count includes all worms, but I will check. The worming programme at my yard consists of I think 2 or 3 worm counts and 1 or 2 actual wormings. So if Bella does have red worms, then they should be wiped out when she's next wormed. Her first worm count (earlier this year) was zero. I put she had zero last winter (even though I don't officially know) in the original thread because I didn't think a horse could have worms and get rid of them without aid. Am I wrong? :confused: Her most recent worm count came out as 200 (per gram I think) which was the borderline of being ok and too much, meaning she is to be wormed very soon.:)

holiday -
That's what I think! I'm really finding it hard to find an explanation other than a high metabolism now, assuming the above suggestions don't result in anything. But how does boiling barley produce more calories? I already heat up her winter feed for her anyway.:)

:D Thank you all of you for your help!!:D
x Nina x

[FudgieFoo]

My Welsh D mare drops weight in the winter. She is quite a highly strung ride. If your mare is the same I find NAF Magic stopped her getting stressed about things.

I noticed you don't have her on any mix. These provide a good balance of all the things your horse needs. What is bio care?

Top Spec feed balancer is also good and will help your horse get the best from its diet.

[emlybob]

I think she looks well in the piccys can't see the problem by looking at them. However i do still understand that some horses can drop weight in the winter.

Like you say all that feed is not good together. In fact it is false economy. As there is only so much she will digest the rest will come sraight out the other end. Is there no way of splitting this into smaller feeds?

Another option is giving her oil this is good for weight but can make them a little excitable. I agree with holiday that boiled barley is great for weight but is a pain. Also you could boil linseed as well.

You could contact one of the main feed suppliers such as D and H or Spillers, they are great for advising on problems

[JackieC]

Hi Nina, probably just need to clarify, your horse may not have worms now but in the past previous owners may not have been as diligent as you to worm. The worms may not be there now but they may have done some damage. Speak to your vet, when my horse had red worms my vet gave me equest and then a five day course of panacur liquid, i would not have done this worming programme without his advise. If there is a underlying problem giving your horse lots of expensive hard feed may not be the solution. For peace of mind, doing some blood tests may cost, but in the long run at least you will know that your horse is just very active and save a lot of worry.

[holiday]

Having another look at what you put, i think you probually didnt see her losing weight as you were looking at her every day, now you know she loses weight you wont let it happen, you realise now she needs feeds twice a day which you i assume will do now, as she was a new horse you may not have just been giving her enough, just by not realising.

I personally would give her the normal two feeds a day that she had last year, keep checking her weight with a weight tape so she doesnt dramatically lose it. Its easy to look at something every day and not realise until it becomes obvious!!!!!!!

Dont worry about her i think you are now prepared to go into this winter well equiped with some knowledge about her. If she starts to lose weight i would up your barley and add some oil. You are probually worrying too much!! New horses can catch us out!!!!!!!

[Greentchr]

Is she in a field with other horses? Could it be that she is on the lower end of the totem pole and is not getting her share of the hay?

Having a rug on all the time would make it difficult to check condition during the winter, expecially through a winter coat. Could you save the rug for just those especially bad days to make it easier to check the day-to-day condition? Many people think that rugs are unecessary for the majority of horses (I would be one of them) especially if they are given free access to shelter. By compressing the hair, they can make a horse colder than an un-rugged horse.

She sure looks in good condition now!

[NINA WANTSA COB]

Phew! Many replies lol :D . Thank you to all of you!!:

FudgieFoo -
Bella is pretty much a chilled out ride! Your mare doesn't sound much like Bella but I will nevertheless bare it in mind. Oh, and BioCare is a sort of mix :). I'm not exactly sure what's in it, but the experienced staff at my yard claim that it is very high in calories. I will also bare Top Spec in mind.

emlybob -
She always has a large "glug" of oil in her feed, and I don't plan to feed her physically as much this year, unless absolutely necessary. Hopefully she will manage on 1 feed in the week and 2 at weekends. If not, well then we'll do what we can to keep her healthy (i.e. probably increase her food intake etc.) and plan better for next year. By the way, having never used it, why is boiled barley such a pain?

JackieC -
Now I'm a little confused! :rolleyes: If she did have worm damage, how would she be able to keep her weight on at all, even through the summer?:confused:

holiday -
:) Yes you're right I think - as I'm more prepared and wary (plus I have those photos as evidence as it were) I think I'll catch the signs a lot sooner than last year. She'll be in a lot less work this winter anyway (which means less calorie burning) having come off of working livery (YAY!!!:D THANK YOU MUM! lol) and onto grass. She HATED working livery.:(

Greentchr -
Bella is in a field with other mares, but she is either at the very top of the pecking order or at least very high up! Why would a rug make it hard to check condition? Without one, she would get very hairy, then very hot when worked so I would have to clip potentially quite a lot of her coat, which would mean she would need a rug?:confused: Even though they compress the hair, surely the insulating material they are made from compensates for that? I also check if she's warm enough before I turn her out. Plus her field has limited shelter - a small sort of panel of good trees, but facing the wrong direction etc.

Thank you all again for your advice!!
x Nina x

[Portia]

Do you know of any problems that, potentially, could be uncovered from a blood test? And our vets are planning on doing a thorough presentation/discussion about nutrition in the near future, which I plan to go to.:)

Hi Nina, sorry for delay in replying, have been away. Blood assay might indicate a myriad of problems, from liver damage ( previous ragwort posioning) to anaemia. Reading through your post however, it seems to me that your mare is generally fit and well - apart from keeping weight on in poor weather. I would still contact someone for feed advice, there are threads on the message boards regarding various suppliers if getting independent advice isn't straightforward.