Equine ethology conference?

[Crystal Fire]

I expected to see something on here about this - did any of you go and what did you think?

[janet hakeney]

I went.

Ray Hunt taught a colt starting class with Dave Stuart, Charlotte Denis and Ray's grandson Jake.

There were things about it that were impressive. Jake is only 18 and he already has the making of an excellent horseman. Dave got on a big strong 7yr old that had lain untouched in the field for 5 years after being 'started' :cough: at 2yrs. He had a good bucking session, on line and ridden, and Dave showed exceptional skill in even staying on, let alone becoming the horses leader.

Ray emphasised that he was there for the horse first and foremost. As he is a living legend reveered by all and sundry in the NH world it is difficult to criticise but what I got out of watching him was that ......

I am really glad that Pat Parelli got to study with guys like him who can read horses like scholars read books, then went away and designed a programme for normal people to learn how to deal with horses without needing an air ambulance to hand at all times.

Andy Booth came over from France and presented some very good sessions which included a lot of groundwork and horse psychology. He was plugging the new La Cense education packs.....but hey they looked good and he is a very entertaining speaker.

Carl Hester brought a couple of horses and showed some dressage training. A lot of what he said resonated with what the NH speakers had said in terms of what they were looking for in the horses attitude, balance and response. It was interesting to see that Ray Hunt stayed and watched Carl and was obviously getting enjoyment from seeing another excellent horse trainer at work albeit in a very different style from his.

It was a good weekend despite the weather, met up with a bunch of folks who I knew from previous similar outings and there was a nice party/pigroast on the Saturday night with a great band.

[Crystal Fire]

I went as well, I thought maybe there would be a few from here.
I thought it was really interesting and it was a nice surprise to see lots of people there that I knew and have a catch up. Ray Hunt is inspirational isn't he? I get what you mean about the air ambulance though - colt starting Hunt style - not for the fainthearted is it? :D
I thought Andy Booth was an entertaining speaker, but have a different view of his horse handling and psychology. I was disappointed in him and very uncomfortable about how he was with the horse. But that just means I'll avoid him in the future, there are so many trainers to choose from, we're not all going to be the same are we?
Thought Dave Stewart has developed a lot more feel and timing in the last couple of years, he's getting pretty good these days.
I hope they can get a similar big name in NH along next year - and wouldn't mind the demos being indoors...! :)

[janet hakeney]

I hope they can get a similar big name in NH along next year - and wouldn't mind the demos being indoors...!

Well in that case I will see you in August in the NEC for Pat and Linda Parelli

[Crystal Fire]

Probably not Janet, I've seen Pat and Linda lots of times before and they don't have the same attraction for me these days. I don't really want to go see a couple of days of only Parelli again :) I was thinking of maybe somebody like Buck Brannaman :)

[cvb]

I hope they can get a similar big name in NH along next year - and wouldn't mind the demos being indoors...! :)

It was outdoors :eek: :eek:

I didn't go - it clashed with a prior commitment to be part of a demo at Blair 3DE (or rather to accompany the pony and make myself useful ;) )

But it would be interesting to see a conference report if anyone took notes ?

[Crystal Fire]

Yes - outdoors! OK if the weather is good, but it wasn't and however well you wrapped up the damp and wind got through eventually. Not good really considering the price of the tickets I thought. But I'm really pleased that I went. I loved some of it, hated other bits, wasn't sure about some... but I've seen Ray Hunt and really that is why I went :D
If you look over at the Intelligent Horsemanship DG and search on ethology there is quite a big discussion about it. Not everyone agrees with each other, but it's very civilised and polite and nobody gets defensive, which I think is great.

[Chablis]

Probably not Janet, I've seen Pat and Linda lots of times before and they don't have the same attraction for me these days. I don't really want to go see a couple of days of only Parelli again :) I was thinking of maybe somebody like Buck Brannaman :)

If you are interested in Buck, here you go:

http://s37.photobucket.com/albums/e84/chablis123/

Some photo's taken at a recent BB course, in Australia. (Ignore the first few pics, they are of my ponies:) The BB photo's follow.

[Crystal Fire]

Thanks Chablis, I BET that's the clinic I wanted to get to Aus to see... where was it? I see a very tall guy in a white hat watching in one of the pics, I think it might be my friend Steve. He stands out quite well as he is very, very tall :)

[Demson]

I'm probably going to get shot down but here goes..after all it's only my opinion.

At prices going up to £50 per person per day I was disappointed fo rothers but not myself as didn't pay anything.

Ray Hunt:-
1) I found his colt starting session very informative and he was aware of the foal all the time.
2) Ray pulled down PP in his opening speach which was not called for
3) Ray would start talking and either forget what he was saying or get distracted with something else. fair enough he is getting old so the first could b eexcused but to get distracted then not continu ewasn't good not at the price people paid to come and see him.
4) He put pressure on Charlotte to stand up in the saddle on Cruise (The 7 yr old Dun) Charlotte said later she felt she had let people down.
5) I liked how on the first day Ray stayed outside the arena (meant the riders/handlers didn't have to watch out for him

Andy Booth:-
1) As someone said they didn't pay to see a comedian, yes AB delivered quite a few jokes and made the audience laugh but his horsemanship was rather disappointing
2) The horses were handled on a very short line (held just beneath the clip) and were pushed back and forth rather roughly. No opportunity for the horse to release from pressure was allowed until AB started demonstrating the horse lowering it's head.
3) Another gimmick to advertise Le Cense? Not sure there...

Dave Stewart:-
1) Showed great horsemanship until he mounted Cruise. yes he stuck on Cruise when he started broncing but all his earlier teaching and his lessons were about never mount a bucking horse. Cruise was never LB, relaxed or trusting at any time while he was in the arena. At the slightest noise or movement Cruise twitched, widened his eyes and became tense. I suspect in other circumstances DS would have spent more time with him.

Carl Hester:-
I found on the dressage front the demo's with Carl were very informative and he was using NH principles. A very intereting approach using two very different horses.

The BBQ:-
I phoned previously to ask about this and was told that besides a Hog roast there would be a big buffet as well. At £15 Ithough tokay tht's cool and sounds worth it. However the big buffet was a mere basic salad, Salmon which for 1/2 the people was left to two heads...disgusting...(They knew how many to cater for so should have done that. There was a mushroom dish which was actually nice but not much of it. The hog itseslf?????Well I got a large spoon of fat plonked onto my plate so I had to ask for another "Decent" piece. Over all the buffet was terrible.

However the band was great singing all my fav soul hits from the film "The Commitments" Good if you like soul.

The Trade Stands:-
I found these to be very good and varied, plenty for people to browse and buy.

Overall:-
A shame Craig couldn't make it but hey that's what happens. The rain came and again that can't be helped. BUT! As suggested why couldn't they use the indoor arena and hire a large marque for the trade stands?

No announcement was made to the fact that Charlotte did not do her display nor did Carl Hester perform his dressage to musc. When I asked about this I got a " So what" kinda reply.
I know may who enjoyed the two days and many who didn't.

What I do know is that there will NOT be a conference next year. Not if the fact that the premises are up for sale for £1.300,000 is anything to go buy.

The sale is on "Rural Scene"


Cheers

[Crystal Fire]

Yep Demson, I agree with pretty much all of what you said. I too wonder what the future holds with the centre up for sale, but they've moved before... so who knows?
I was disappointed at the changes in programme, I think if you have booked a top western rider then that is what you have to deliver. There were certainly a lot of western people at the conference, I wonder how they felt about it? Also, one of your other headliners doesn't just leave early, abandoning a slot that people would have really wanted to watch. Fortunately I booked early and got the 3 days for price of 2 deal, or to be honest I'd have thought twice about going. It's a long way for me, so there's fuel and accommodation on top. I went because I wanted to see Ray Hunt (warts and all) while I still can.
I also think that left to their own devices Dave and Charlotte would have put a firmer foundation on their horses before saddling and mounting. I expect most of us know the Parelli young horse starting routine, and it does tend to be less explosive. I'm sure you get there just the same with Ray Hunt, well of course you do, but not everybody is physically capable of that and is it as fair on the horses? Very similar to what you might see with the other "natural horsemen" though I think. Really, a lot of them are tough old cowboys.
Some people seem traumatised by the fact that the foal got up and sat down during his session. I think these things happen so quickly with foals, they were trying so hard to avoid it, but it seemed more like another foaly avoidance tactic to me. I had one that used to do this at the drop of a hat, so maybe that colours my judgement :)
Andy Booth - I just wanted to get up and smack him round the head to be honest. Found it very uncomfortable to watch and felt trapped by being on the far end of a row, or I'd have taken that time to go get a coffee (as I saw some people do). Nothing he did in the subsequent demos justified the way he treated the horse on the first day imho. Enough to make me steer well clear of La Cense, although I still like the idea of getting a nationally recognised qualification that we can pass whatever trainer we learn with. Haven't looked into the cost though.
I hear the hog roast was a bit pants :rolleyes: We had a lovely pub meal while you were there, for under a tenner each...
I'm still trying to get my head round the Carl Hester thing. I admire what he can do... but... just something made me uncomfortable. I'm also not sure I buy into the idea of him embracing NH principles. A friend of mine spoke to him, and it was quite clear that he has no idea how he'd go about riding in a rope halter for example. He said so, and why should he because he's got something that isn't broke so why fix it? I'd like to know if he's really changed any aspect of his training since getting associated with the ee lot. Or do his 2 yr olds still get lunged for long periods of time in side reins and other gizmos? (Which I'm told is why they hold their head position when ridden, even if the reins are allowed to go slack - but hey, I'm no dressage queen, I had to ask one I know about that).
I thought the trade stands were excellent - but over 3 days needed more.

[cvb]

I'd like to know if he's really changed any aspect of his training since getting associated with the ee lot.
A friend of mine (a dressage king rather than a dressage queen !) knows Carl quite well. I was joshing him about the EE thing. His take (the friend not Carl) was that they have to use good horsemanship or the horses don't thrive. So I think they would say the horsemanship pre-existed ?