FAO Ponyvet

[clipclop]

Hi Ponyvet

A few weeks ago a replied and posted a thread on the COPD subject.

Regarding the pony with a persistant cough and exercise.

You said how cases like that make you angry........ Well.......I am about to explode with anger.

I can now tell you that this pony has not been turned out for a month because the owner suspects it has laminitis....whether it has or not I don't know. Apparantly the vet has been out to see the pony and the owners are giving it bute (Thats all). OK fair enough but the cough is still going on despite a talking to by the yard owners a few weeks ago too.

Owners said they are doing everything they can and were devasted at the thought that the yard owner thought that they were not looking after the pony properly.

But....... They are NOT doing everything they can despite advice from vet and me. Still giving dry hay and pony is still on dusty shavings. And now poor pony confined to stable. (Laminitis probably induced by a high volumes of cereal in diet. Thats my opinion)
Owners know that it should not be on hay etc but continue dispite advice. etc etc etc (More info on COPD thread)

For a year now I have had to listen to this pony coughing its guts up and its absolutely torturing me. Tonight I counted the times this pony coughed and I counted TWENTY TIMES IN TEN MINUTES.


The owner is preoccupied with getting the pony sound enough to be ridden again (Treated as a riding machine) that there doesn't seem to be a second thought for its poor lungs.

Is there any thing I can do or anyone I can talk to as it is disstressing me so much. Yard owner says that she can't do anymore.

I have been told that contacting welfare associations would be a waste of time as she is not neglected etc and theri powers are limited.

Also how long can this pony go on for like this. i.e how long has it got? Because I am at a stage now that I feel like it would be better of dying than having to live like this.

What will happen to her and how long do you think it has got, or will it show any further symptoms or distress that may make the owners stand up and take notice?


GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR I AM SO MAD MAD MAD
At the same time powerless.

[Mossy]

Leaving a coughing pony in it's box will NEVER get it riding fit unless it has an infection or has been prescribed box rest for some other reason. Moss sounds dreadful on hay, even soaked and has haylage. He has not got COPD and prevention is much better than treatment He is turned out as much as poss. I fthey wan to ride it I would suggest getting the vet out to check for secondary infections, which need treating, and turn out well rugged as much as poss. Dust free shavings, or best is paper, as bedding. If they want a riding machine they need to keep it's body lubricated, esp the bits it breathes with. Good luck

[ponyvet]

You're right that the welfare organisations will not be much help in such a case, as the owners have sought veterinary advice, and it's not, strictly speaking, being neglected.

If they are using hay still, because they think haylage is too expensive, you need to somehow convince them to soak it. If time is a problem thay could leave it soaking overnight, so it's ready in the morning for them, and then put the afternoons hay in to soak ready for later.

Turnout of course is vital, and I can see ahy they aren't turning out because of laminitis, but the benefit of turnout is more to do with fresh air than being particularly fit. What they need to do is turn it out onto a small area, where it can't move about much. A fenced off corner of a field, or menage, or any sort of small outdoor enclosure that can be found.

How you approach this without either being interfering or being agressive is difficult. Can you try befriending them and offering to help with turnout or hay soaking? People oftenare better at taking advice from friends than if they think you are having a go! If they are upset that people think they are not looking after it properly they should be open to some friendly advice. Perhaps they just feel that they haven't the time or money to make any changes. It's very dificult to know how to do anything about it.

[clipclop]

I have already spsoke to them about soaking hay and tols them all the reasons behind it but they still give dry hay. I have also advised about the shavings but they still use them.

I used to turn the pony out but girl put a stop to it because I didn't put her winter coat on her in the middle of the summer and she gor dirty.

I have even given them leaflets about COPD but still they carry on as usual.

I am also not so sure if the pony has laminitis or had laminitis. It has not been lame as far as I can see. (Maybe navicular or some other concussive related problem) They have her shod every 10 -12 weeks and she is very long in the toe. Farrier never remarked about her feet the other week either just put old shoes back on.

The owners know the symptoms of laminitis and are in the habit of ringing the vet for advise or going to collect medicines etc, without the vet actually examining the pony for anything. They are also in the habit of actually lying to the vet. (Not telling the full truth etc. Frightened of high vet bill or being told to retire the pony so that the girl cannot ride it again maybe)

May sound strange but I have heard it with my own ears when a vet has been present.

I have just returned from the stables this morning to find the pony still coughing every 30 SECONDS.

What will happen to this pony? How long will this go on for?

[skye]

Hi all,
can understand how you feel.My horse has suffered with this problem for years.At his peak he was coughing every 30secs.I would like to say my horse is 30yrs and has suffered with this prob long time!
This is the 1st winter i've had where he hasn't had a serious bout of copd.He does have a slight cough when its very wet/misty /cold.If all copd sufferers are the same you might find this is why he is coughing more than normal.The owners don't deserve to have this pony.Have you tried contacting the ilph? I know there isn't much they can do about it but maybe if they do get in contact with the owners it might make them change thier behaviour? Instead of getting them to soak thier hay can you persuade them to fill haynets up and leave out side in the rain so it gets damp?
At the end of the day there isn't alot you can do to help this pony,keep talking to the owners.Try approaching it from an exercise point of view eg.reduced performance,burst lung capilaries (sp)? etc all mean time when this pony can't be ridden.
sorry i can't help
if you want any info alternative remedies you could suggest to the owner pm me.(i know you can't control the allergies without removing the source of allergen but have come accross some free natural medicine like nettles etc which help)!

[ponyvet]

I expect if they won't change the hay or bedding they won't pay for herbs either!!!

I really can't say how long it will go on for. I've never had to deal with someone completely ignoring advice like that.

It doesn't surprise me that they lie to the vet, a lot of people do to save embarrasment, or to hide the fact that they left something so long before they did anything about it,

On the subject of the farrier, Don't use him yourself if he hasn't tried to balance the feet properly. I hardly ever say this, but the foot balance is largely due to the standard of farriery care the horse receives and if it's bad the farrier is probably not any good!

I don't know what to suggest you do other than keep trying.

[clipclop]

Thnks Skye for your support.

I know a few alternative methods myself. My own horse suffers from COPD but you never here her cough because I succesfully manage it, which is was the owners of this pony should alt least be trying to do, but are not.

I have in the past spoke to them on several occasions and I think if i said anymore I would be called an interfering busy body.

Yard owner has said she can't do any more too.

The other problem I fear is as soon as this pony is sound enough to be ridden the RIDDEN SHE WILL BE. I.e lunged hard for ONE AND A HALF HOURS. cHOOLED FOR 2 HOURS 5 TO SIX TIMES A WEEK.

She surely is not going to be able to cope with that after being on box rest for a month coughing as she has been doing.

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

Skye would you exercize your horse in this way or anyone else if it coughed like this.

Am I overreacting?
I am not sure if I am becoming paranoid about coughing horses, because I see the distress the pony is in and hear her everyday for about 3 hours a day.

[clipclop]

Hi ponyvet

You must have posted at the same time as me.

You are right about paying for herbs etc.

It was nearly 2 years before I eventually peruaded them to get a vet to have a look at the pony.

I feel that a lot more could be achieved if they just took the simple obvious steps of taking the time etc to soak the hay properly and change to alternative dust free bedding.

Owner takes soooooooooooo long grooming and tidying her mane each day( All the cosmetic side of things etc even takes over an hour playing with the bloody dusty shavings while mucking out). Why o'h why can't they spend this time soaking her hay, and stop chucking the shavings all over the place.


Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Sorry folks the more I talk about this the madder I get.

[skye]

No i never ride my horse when he is at his worst with copd.His allergies are particually difficult to manage as he also suffers with the summer version of copd so he is always trying to fight something,and at the age of 30yrs its not suprising he struggles more with copd than a younger horse.In previous winters when he has been really bad i've only walked him in hand (vet said this would be ok) then only ride him once or twice a week the rest of the winter mainly walking and trotting.This winter i have changed to rubber mats,haylage and top quality shavings.He does occasionly cough (by occasionly i mean once in a space of 4days) My vet is really impressed with how well he's doing.I can now ride him 4/5days a week upto 2hrs hacking with ease.In november i was invited to help round up the wild exmoor ponies that roam the moor where i live.We were out 4hrs with all the other horses and ponies at 1/4 his age and showed them how its all done.COPD is something that can only be controlled through management.Grit your teeth for a while and see how the people treat the pony.If they do start riding it like you fear contact your local ILPH.I know there is very little they can do ,but express your fears and they might at least check on the pony.Don't bother with the RSPCA they aren't really interested in the animals welfare,but the ilph are usually of more help.If they can see the degree of suffering the pony is going through then they have to act upon it.
Good luck

[clipclop]

Skye I am soooooo pleaseD with your success of manageing this problem. That is brilliant. Well Done.

ONe thing i did emphasise to the owners is that it is a management problem. Hoping that they would stop and think if they could improve it etc. (Waste of time that was)

Pony vet you were right about their farrier.

This farrier shod my horse once. I had to have her shoes taken off after just 2 weeks as my horse was stumbling all over the place. Luckily no-one else at the yarduses this farrier either.

PHEWWWWW!!!

[clipclop]

One other thing that I find strange about these people is.

If this pony has had or still has laminitis then why would they start to feed her carrots in her feed? (Quite a few too) I would have thought they need to reduce the sugar content of the diet.

Am I right?