Help with feeds! A good doer

[mu0ljk]

Hi
I am now in charge of what my horse gets for his hard feed (been on full livery don't have a say in what he gets :rolleyes: ) and am hoping you can help me.

Sid is a 16.2hh (bit of a false height though due to giraffe withers) idxtb and is a very good doer. I have never been able to shift any weight off of him so I am now in the process of looking at all the feed websites to try and find a suitble meal for Sidney.

I have used several horse weighing methods and he seems to average out at about 562kg/1237.73 lbs although he is a rather odd shape in that his belly bulges out behind the girth so I'm not too sure how true a weight this is.

I want something that is going to keep the weight down but keep his condition (especially over the winter). My RI said I should get something which gives him a bit more spark as he is lazy but I'm not too sure about that! :o

He gets dengie hifi, economy mix and molli chaff (? not sure how it is spelt) with a joint supplement and carrots or apples for breakfast. He goes out at night with a laminitic prone pony in a little field (although it is ex-dairy grass and very lush) and he gets a couple of smallish nets during the day.

What do you reckon? Oh and as far as that 'spark' goes for in lessons could I just add a handfull of oats an hour or so before setting off for the lesson? Would that work? Just worried about him being lively out hacking etc!

Sorry its so long! Oh some photos of him.

Thanks!
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b285/mu0ljk/HPIM4534.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b285/mu0ljk/HPIM4541.jpg

The pictures aren't terribly good for showing his belly off but it gives an idea of his build! :rolleyes:

[Jessey]

I would cut out the Moli, its pretty naf stuff, poor feed covered in sugars to make it palatable. I would increase your HiFi instead its a pretty good quality forage and has far less molasses, even switch to HiFi lite if you think he needs less.

You don't have to feed mix at all if he doesn't need it (weight wise), but if he is lacking in energy you may need to give him something. When I needed extra energy but without weight gain I used far less of a higher energy mix, either a competition mix (stay power musli was a good one) or oats just when I needed them, like the morning of a big ride or competition or lesson.

Re his condition you should try condition scoring him, as you say weight tapes alone don't cover the whole picture :D also a worm count to ensure the pot belly isn't a wormy one is a good idea.

My guy is much the same at the mo, a nice covering on the rest of him but with a big belly, with Bo this is due to having been out of work most of the year and not having muscle tone/fitness. If Sid has only been in light work or not working through properly you may find you are in the same boat, if thats the case as he gets fitter you may find he looses the pot belly look and also has more energy to spare too :D

J x

[nicolaj]

Hi, nice horsey!:)

Ditto Jessy re weight tape, also condition scoring is a very good way of looking at his weight as well. I use this in addition to a weight tape for my good-doer.

With more work you will find as he gets fitter and begins to lose the weight he will have more spark. Feeding high sugar feeds or cereals can be like feeding children up on sweets.

After spending a lot of time reading and looking at feed manufacturers websites I've settled on feeding a highfibre regime. He is out 24/7, never comes in; I leave him unrugged for as long as possible as he uses his own resources then to keep warm rather than storing the calories. He is fed Dengie Hi-fi with a vit&mineral supplement, garlic and apple cider vinegar. I have orded some Hilton Herbs Herbpower which I will begin to feed him.

Overall I have found this to be just right, he is now nice and fit, and I have even discovered his ribs!!!:p He is fitter and is more willing to work without the excess weight.

You could try Dengie Good-doer, or Hi-fi lite, which doesn't have the molasses all over it with a broad spectrum vitamin & mineral supplement. If you feed at night when he comes in I would suggest feeding at the full rate as he will take ages to eat it and it keeps him occupied for longer. The worst thing you can do is restrict his eating as this can lead to loads of other problems. Some people on the board have used Simple Systems feed with good results.

During turn-out, have you tried a muzzle? I haven't used one, but other people have so might be worth a search to see what success people have had. I believe they do work in restricting grass intake but do allow them to have some grass.

For me this regime works. I know it is hard, giving them what they need when they put weight on as soon as they look at a bag of feed is just as bad as those that drop weight if the temperature drops below 10c!!:rolleyes:

Good luck and keep updating as to your progress.

[mu0ljk]

Thanks for the replies! I have spoken to 4 feed companies and they have all said much the same (albeit with their own brands! ;) ) Dengie and Spillers suggested a low cal feed (happy dieter and Good Do-er). Dengie sugested adding naked oats for when I want a bit more sparkle too. Dodson and Horell. and Balanced horse feeds suggested keeping the hi-fi (either good doer or lite) and using a balancer to make sure he gets all the vitamins etc.

Comparing the spillers and dengie feeds I think the dengie sounds better - but do you think I need a balancer as Dodson suggested?
http://www.dengie.com/hi-fi_good_do-er.htm

Oh they also said more exercise and to strip graze. Strip grazing isn't an option but as you said nicolaj, I could get a muzzle...I just don't like the idea of using one!! I can't remember who it was on here that was using one was it Domane do you know?

[nicolaj]

Hi mu0ljk

If you feed Dengie Good-doer and do so as per the rate suggested on the packet, then you shouldn't need an extra supplement. If however, you feed Hi-fi lite, then yes put the vitamin & Mineral supplement in.

I suppose their are pros and cons to both. If you feed Good-doer, you are having to stick to the same ration all year round, but using a supplement and Hi-fi lite, during the spring/summer months when grass is good then you can just throw a handful into the bucket to take the supplement.

You will find as he loses weight and becomes fitter, the sparkle should be there and he will feel more willing to work.

Regarding muzzles, I know Eventerbabe has used one with good success on her cob. I think it was one called Best Friends(?). I'm sure if you PMd her she would be happy to tell you more.

I know strip grazing isn't always an option!

Also use the least possible rug you can get away with, don't swamp horsey with heavy weight rugs when more lighter weight ones can be used. If they are too warm then they will sweat but also hang onto extra weight as well. Mine last year was overweight, but cautious rugging ie only started to wear a rain sheet in November, and no rug by March time, watching the feed, he has lost a lot of weight and now, even if I do say so myself is looking pretty good!

Hope it works out!:)

[eventerbabe]

why molichaff and hi-fi?? seems an odd mix. i'm a dengie convert, i love their feeds. The good-doer and hi-fi lite are their lower energy feeds for those that can live off fresh air. i combine hi-fi lite with their fibremix easy for my cob. the hi-fi provides the bulk, and the fibremix the extra energy.

i recently spoke to a dengie rep as regards my youngster and dengie do do a 'complete' feed, like a balancer, which it was suggested i could move both mine onto. It's called fibremix complete. and you can combine that with whichever chaff you chose.

My beloved bonnie wore a muzzle for the last 5/6 years of her life. it was basically what kept her alive as she was a chronic laminitic. they are not barbaric instruments of torture as some like to think. she was able to live a 'normal' life going out in the field with her friend, yet couldn't pig out and bring on another bout of laminitis. The best friends muzzles are very good, but rather worryingly every stockist i'd found of them says they can't get them in anymore! greenguard are a waste of time and rub horribly.

[Peanut]

Hi
I am now in charge of what my horse gets for his hard feed (been on full livery don't have a say in what he gets :rolleyes:


That's unbelievable - I can't imagine not being able to decide what my own horse eats. How can a livery yard possibly get away with such a rule? :eek:

[chewitmonster]

That's unbelievable - I can't imagine not being able to decide what my own horse eats. How can a livery yard possibly get away with such a rule? :eek:
It seems to be the norm on some full livery yards. That way all the horses are fed the same, at the same time and so the yard can monitor them as part of the routine. Our yard is full livery and is the same - if you want to change from what the yard feeds then you have to buy it in (which we've done - we've moved onto Simple Systems). A lot of the owners who come to the yard are buying their first horse and having one less thing to worry about can be a bonus for them. Also many have them on full livery so they can just turn up and ride - everything else is sorted for them...after all thats what they are paying for. I on the other hand shouldn't really be on full livery - I groom, feed, ride, turn out etc myself and would muck out and bring in if I wasn't concious I have to get something for my money! Trouble is I like the yard, the YO and the liveries :rolleyes: don't think I could find a nicer yard close to me.

[amandal]

I use a Shires muzzle on my fatty, it's working really well, doesn't rub her at all and is a fetching pink. The other liveries have even stopped lecturing me on the evils of a muzzle now they've seen her grazing in it :rolleyes: . I've moved to Simple Systems feedwise (or will be when she's fed again) but used to use Dengie Hi fi lite and Balieys Lo-cal balancer which did work for her.

[Fruit Loop]

In the summer my good doer is just on grass (starvation paddock sometimes if the weather isn't too hot), she's doing a lot more exercise than last year so she hasn't been as bad.

At the moment they are coming in at night so they are having some of last years hay to keep them occupied for a bit.

In winter she has Dengie Hi-fi good doer (with a bit of seaweed/garlic or carrot occasionally to give it a different taste) plus she has a bit of hay (they'll probably be on this years good stuff by then).

I was terrible the 1st year I got her because I was feeding her what the other two have because thats the way its always been. I am ashamed to say she was having hard feed with sugarbeet!! It was a sharp leaning curve.

[Giveitago]

Just to add,

your horse doesnt look too fat, check the coverage on the rib cage dont just rely on tapes etc.

Also, look at where the weight is carried, could it be different muscle usage, type of breed etc?

Otherwise, I'd go with the Dengie. Perhaps adding a few oats or 1/2 scoop of Happy Hoof (full of mollasses and very fizzy), if you need a bit more enthusiasm. You might like to consider checking your tack incase this is holding him back somehow.

[mu0ljk]

[QUOTE=chewitmonster]It seems to be the norm on some full livery yards. That way all the horses are fed the same, at the same time and so the yard can monitor them as part of the routine. Our yard is full livery and is the same - if you want to change from what the yard feeds then you have to buy it in (which we've done - we've moved onto Simple Systems). A lot of the owners who come to the yard are buying their first horse and having one less thing to worry about can be a bonus for them. QUOTE]

Thats it exactly. The yard I am on is great and YO is so helpful - without her I don't think I would have coped with horse owning. She gives all the horses pretty much the same stuff with a few differences here and there. Until now it has never been a problem and the previous horse I had was content and happy on what she was getting. But now there is a bit of a problem so I feel I need to address it! :)

Giveitago, Sid is quite fat - you cannot feel his ribs without prodding him in the side! I don't think he is at risk of laminitus and he isn't massively obese but I think it is stopping us from doing jumping for example - he is fairly fit but he struggles because of his bulk! :o

I think I am going to give the dengie good doer a go with naked oats for when he needs them and work out a good fitness regeime (sp!) to help. I will see how that goes and then introduce a muzzle later if I feel we aren't getting anywhere. On the plus side though with winter just around the corner (if you can call it a plus!) the horses will start being in more anyway because of the fields.

Thanks for your help!! :)

[mu0ljk]

Well as a teeny tiny update I got the dengie good doer and the oats and he absolutely adores the dengie! It's mint flavoured and YO gives him breakfast early on and when I got down a bit later the bucket was outside his stable so I gave it to him to lick out and he went mad!! He was even trying to bite the edge of the bucket to make sure he got all the feed out! So it's a definate thumbs up from Sid for the new feed! Now we'll just have to wait and see if it makes any difference!! :p

[nicolaj]

Cool!

Good luck and hopefully it will start to work!!

[Jessey]

Thats great news :D
I also used a muzzle on my fatties, a Mark Todd one, but I found after about 10 days of constant use it rubbed quite badly, I have looked at others but I think they will all cause the same problems (it rubbed both their lips :() I now have them on restricted grazing.
I would definatly review your fitness program, Bo is the same weight (by weigh tape) now as he was last year but he is much fatter this year???? I think its just more flab where last year he was very toned and fit :o He has been on and off work due to injuries so I can't wait to get back from hols now and really get him working :D

J x

[Supercali]

That's unbelievable - I can't imagine not being able to decide what my own horse eats. How can a livery yard possibly get away with such a rule? :eek:

When my horses were on full livery we didn't have an option to what they were fed either! They bought in the cheapest nuts and chaff in bulk and the horses were jumping out of their skin with too much energy and too little work and turnout (a few times a week for an hour :rolleyes: ). If I bought a supplement they wouldn't bother giving it to them.

I am so happy now we look after them ourselves. We moved away and bought a place with land and they are fed a good-quality, low energy diet and have loads of turnout and are really relaxed and laid-back and HAPPY :D

I feed my good-doers, Baileys Lo-Cal, Dengie Hi-Fi and the odd carrot.