clicker contact

[VickiGG]

Some of you may know I have been having trouble getting Garbo to go into the contact (forwards off my leg) - he goes forwards very well without contact - and when I add contact he slows down, and becomes sluggish - even with my added legs.

So - we have done some clicker training in the past - and I decided to try it in the saddle for the first time on Saturday. :rolleyes:

He really took to it well - everytime he took a nice contact and moved forwards nicely too - I would click him. Then he would stop and get a treat (a piece of apple).

This photo was taken on Sunday - during the 2nd session (ever). Amazing huh! Oh - as you can see - still using leg a bit - my leg always goes back when I put it on - just until we get his contact consistent - as he pulls me forwards... ;)

We didn't get this all the time - but about half the long side of the arena at a time.

What do you think - do you think this is a true contact?

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c188/VickiGG/IMG_00041.jpg

This is us at halt.

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c188/VickiGG/IMG_00021.jpg

Oh - the other break through - he normally opens his mouth too...

[NoviceNic]

I am no expert but would hazard a guess that the contact isnt there yet. Are your reins too long?? I would say they are. You also look too far in front of him as your ride in the first picture. Almost too light in the saddle. I am going to be completely wrong here arent I. But hey I have had a go.. :o

Are your treats confusing him?? Everytime he has a good contact you stop him and give him an apple treat. Is this confusing to him as you are asking him then to stop.. Sorry just a few thought process's going through my head as I type. :o

[SupaTania]

allowing him to stop to give him a treat every time he picks up contact will teach him to stop for food - and that won't be good f you ever show/compete on him and ask him to pick up contact! Hehe

But other then that, he does look to be coming on to the bit, still a bit of work to do, but for so little time, you're progressing nicely.

[VickiGG]

Hi guys
Clicker training actually means you can draw out the click until you get what you want, and they don't stop until you ask them to stop - then give the apple. Once they learn what you are asking for, you can ask for a longer duration of the behaviour before you click - and then eventually phase the clicker out. It's just about teaching new behaviours. It's a communication tool. Obviously before you attempt this - the horse knows that when they hear the click they are doing whatever they are doing 'right'.

They actually try really hard to 'recreate' what it was they were doing when you clicked - and they keep doing it. They know the click means right - not the food. At one point he just kept going after the click - trying to do more of the 'correct' behaviour. Quite cool. :)

All we are doing is reinforcing the correct contact - ie he gets no click for looking around, or tossing his head, or pulling on the reins. :)

NN - the picture has me going back down in rising trot hence out of the saddle and forward a bit. :)

[rowdent]

Thats what I was going to say, you are in rising trot, hence you are forward a bit.. :D

I'd say you are doing wonders! What an incredible idea.. good luck! :) Although I am by no means an expert, it looks to me as if he is using his back, although it is hard to see from that photo if he is tracking up or not..

Also I ADORE your horse.. he is fabulous..what a beautiful boy...

[capalldubh]

How interesting! I think it certainly does look like a very good start...

I have been doing a little bit of clicker when ridden - but only for calmness when scary tractors pass and we have been working on transferring turn on the forehand from the ground to the saddle. I have been wondering how to work on the contact issues.
My problem is the opposite to yours (and mainly my lack of skill as a rider rather than Shannon's lack of willingness). When I ask her to move off the leg, she speeds up but doesn't take up a contact, so the impulsion is lost. I will try to think of a way around this... with my handy pouch of carrots ;)

I would love to hear how you get on and what you do next - it is amazing how quickly they learn what you are looking for using the clicker, isn't it?

[VickiGG]

Thanks rowdent.... he is a cutie - but I am biased. :)

capalldubh - I have been doing clicker ground work with him but he has really taken to the additional challenge of ridden clicker work! :)

If you could put some markers (electric tape) on your reins at a point which is a good and even contact - then hold the reins there (at each marker) when you use your legs (so you know you are not giving it away) - and then click when she doesn't tank off (or you could even have someone click you when you don't let the impulsion out the front end :) )

I'll let you know how we go - I have my friend coming to help me on Friday - she knows clicker training too - so that will help having someone on the ground.

Today (on the ground) I tried adding cues (after Alexandra Kurland emailing me that suggestion) and getting him to only offer the behaviour when cued (touching a cone) by adding an incompatible behaviour (backing up) and clicking/reward for that. The problem I was having was that he wanted to touch the cones all the time and didn't know what was happening when I took them away (or him away). The backing up in-between cueing him to touch the cone worked really well. It's loads of fun and the horses love it don't they.

Oh - then I worked on adding scary things!

[VickiGG]

capalldubh - one more thing - YES - it is amazing how quickly they learn something which has been so hard to teach.

We have been training my boy (with my RI's help) the normal way for 8 months -and he is coming along very slowly - but still well. But in TWO half hour clicker sessions he finally seems to have understood what it is I want him to do. Up until then I think he was confused. Anyway - I am not going to jump the gun yet - I'll see how Friday goes! :rolleyes:

This is a usual look (from June 2006)
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c188/VickiGG/IMG_0068.jpg

[capalldubh]

Yup it would be useful to have someone on the ground to tell me when things are working (and ideally to do the treating to avoid me falling off sideways!).

I like your suggestion - and I think the person on the ground should have both carrots and chocolate - Shannon gets a click and a carrot when she does it right, and I get a click and some choc when I do :D

[VickiGG]

excellent idea - I will tell my friend to bring the choccy for me! :rolleyes:

[VickiGG]

OMG - I am taking over my own thread!! :)

Just wanted to say - when I got Garbo he was scared to death of flyspray - it took me about 5 minutes to train him to stand still for being sprayed, with the clicker - fab!

[capalldubh]

I have never tried the flyspray and Shannon is scared to death of it too! I will have a go this week :-)

Cross-posted above - but just to say the before and after pictures are pretty amazing - especially for a first try! I think you're well on the way to a big success there :)

[VickiGG]

cool - let me know how you go with the flyspray.:)

It was so funny when I did it at my old yard. There was a farrier there and a couple of other people and they were like "what is she doing???" But within a few minutes they could see he went from running away from it to standing there still as anything, and calm. They were amazed. :D

[capalldubh]

The yard we are at currently is full of people who think I am quite clearly off my head :D The endless supply of carrot pieces combined with the odd moves and cues and the clicky noises has them all confused... Also I use a home made target stick with a plastic bottle taped to the top of a tent pole - nobody can figure out what on earth it is and why the horse follows it everywhere ;)

[VickiGG]

I use a home made target stick with a plastic bottle taped to the top of a tent pole

LOL - I have one of those too - the bottle is red and white striped (covered with electrical tape)

[NoviceNic]

I dont know much about clicker training Vicki. But after reading a bit more from you about how difficult your horse has found contact it sounds as though something has now clicked for him . I might speak to my RI about Clicker training. I am up for anything me...:)

[VickiGG]

Hi NN
If you can - get Alexandra Kurlands book(s) http://theclickercenter.com/ - they are easy to follow books with step by step pictures :)

She trained a miniature horse to be a guide horse (for a blind person) and the horse was on ER