Grey

[DeirdreBarlow]

How does one produce a grey?

ie, what colour dam, sire and grandparentage would be required to breed a grey foal?

(Obviously I don't imagine him/her to be born grey, I'm referring to when his/her colour has fully developed ;) )

[emlybob]

The grey gene is dominant so if u bred a grey and a grey together even if their parents are different u r guaranteed a grey. I am not overly into genetics but as far as i am aware the grey gene is dominant over most colours. But i could be wrong, it's ages since i did my degree!!!!

[holiday]

My iron grey mare always breds iron greys whatever i put on her, i believe the grey colour is dominent but i have a chestnut out of a grey mare by a palomino stallion, and a bay mare by a grey stallion.

Chev will probually be able to help you she is well informed on colour genes!!

[ambatt]

To quote Chev (as she is busy tonight;) )

"Grey acts as a dominant gene, and some consider it technically not a colour gene but a colour-replacing gene. A horse only needs one copy of grey to go grey."

So to be grey the foal HAS to have at least one grey parent, grey cannot skip a generation or be carried as a 'hidden' gene in the way chestnut can.

[coss]

To quote Chev (as she is busy tonight;) )

"Grey acts as a dominant gene, and some consider it technically not a colour gene but a colour-replacing gene. A horse only needs one copy of grey to go grey."

So to be grey the foal HAS to have at least one grey parent, grey cannot skip a generation or be carried as a 'hidden' gene in the way chestnut can.

that is a brilliant explanation

[jenren!!]

The grey gene is dominant so if u bred a grey and a grey together even if their parents are different u r guaranteed a grey. I am not overly into genetics but as far as i am aware the grey gene is dominant over most colours. But i could be wrong, it's ages since i did my degree!!!!
I was gonna say, you're clued up on it! I wouldnt have a clue :D.

[DeirdreBarlow]

So let me check I've got this straight ;) . . .

If I put my bay mare in foal to a grey stallion - they'll produce grey offspring.

Or have I got that completely wrong :rolleyes: ?

[coss]

ummm... not entirely sure. depends on the grey stallion. the colour genes are weird but he will have at least one grey gene but could have another colour as the pair to that gene. it depends which gene the stallion passes on. if stallions genes are Grey Grey then you will get grey offspring but i think you could have a grey stallion with the gene coding of grey on one and black on the other - not entirely sure but i think thats how it works. i know it is more complicated in horses than normal genetics - thats why i'm not 100% sure on this. will have a look for the book i have tomorrow

[DeirdreBarlow]

Yeah that's where I'm a bit confused too coss :confused: .

Presumably. . . the grey could pass on a non-grey gene and that's where I'm not sure :o

[Wally]

What about grey mare dun stallion?

[coss]

from what i remember of my school biology lessons (two years ago) is that you have pairs of genes so yes the stallion could pass on a non-grey gene as the grey gene is dominant and disguises the non-grey. i have to go to bed now but i will look up my book as it is an interesting (but confusing) subject.

Will be back...

[chev]

It depends on how many copies of grey each parent has.

Every horse has two copies of each gene; one that it gets from mum, and one from dad. Because grey is a dominant gene (that means, if a horse has it, you'll see it - it will go grey!) it only actually needs one copy of grey to be grey.

So; you can have two grey parents with one copy apiece, who then both manage to pass on their non-grey copy to baby and you'll get a non-grey foal. Being grey is not in itself a guarantee that the foal they produce will be.

If a horse has two copies of grey, it can only ever pass grey on - never non-grey. In that case, you only need one parent with those genetics to get a grey foal; so one grey parent with two grey genes will always result in a grey foal even when the other parent is not grey.

If you're planning a grey foal look for a grey stallion that's never thrown anything but greys - because there's no DNA test for grey yet, it's still no guarantee you'd get grey, but it does mean there's a higher chance of that stallion having two grey genes.

[ambatt]

Ah! I was going to ask you that Chev, if there was a DNA test for the Grey gene!

I would like to breed a non-grey PRE baby but I suspect Cueva is homozygous for grey, her first foal (By a bay stallion) was born bay but is greying....

[DeirdreBarlow]

Thanks guys - very interesting explanation Chev :) .

I'm not desperate for a grey, but I always seem to end up with bays and chestnuts :D . Have considered breeding from my bay for a while and thought a grey might be nice.

[Longfelllow]

Just remember that grey is more a marking than a color. In about 10 years any grey will end up white-grey or porcelain grey or flea bitten with the marks being the color they were when they were born. If i'm not mistaken, flea bitten is recessive.

[chev]

Interestingly the fleabitten markings on greys are not always the colour they started out. :)

Mehitabel's mare has bright chestnut fleabite markings; but was very dark bay at birth. That's as well as some very dark bay/black fleabites she has.

[Mehitabel]

bright chestnut? day-glo orange, more like! :D

her mum's are the same bright orange too - although two of her grey sisters have darker brown ones.

[JustJas]

hell- a good horse is never a colour!

[JustJas]

My grey ID mare covered by a chestnut cob created- a well dark bay/black depending on time of year mare.

[Gothika]

What about a 'grey roan' (I think she was that when she got her passport, now just fleabitten grey with a dark grey mane and a grey & brown tail) x a coloured stallion? Would the foal probably go grey?

[chev]

Gothika; if she's gone grey, she probably never was roan. Lots of greys resemble roans as they start to go grey, so end up passported as roan, when in fact they were just in the early stages of greying.

What you get from that cross depends on two things; first, how many tobiano genes the stallion has, and secondly how many grey genes your mare has.

That's why most coloured breeders tend to keep greys out of their breeding stock; there's nothing worse than watching your beautiful, rich, perfectly-marked tobiano foal gradually fade to grey! The exact odds of that happening are as follows....

If both mare and stallion have one copy each of their respective modifying genes, you basically have a 25% chance that foal will be born tobiano and stay tobiano; 25% chance it'll be born tobiano and go grey; 25% chance it'll be born solid and stay solid; 25% chance it'll be born solid and go grey.

If mare has two copies of grey and stallion has one tobiano, you have 50% chance of tobiano that'll go grey and 50% chance of a solid colour that'll go grey.

If the stallion has two tobiano and mare has one grey, then there's 50% chance of tobiano that'll stay tobiano and 50% chance of tobiano that'll go grey.

If mare has two copies of grey and stallion two copies of tobiano, then the foal will definitely be born tobiano... but will also definitely go grey!

[mare]

I have a grey mare that has had many.
GreyxDun= Buttermilk Dun that will go grey sometime
GreyxDun=Buttermilk Dun that will go grey sometime
GreyxLiver Chestnut=Bay
GreyxBlk/Wht Paint= B/S Grey with Dun markings
GreyxChestnut= Bay with dorsel stripe
She is bred to a Paint again so we'll see what happens