total change of behaviour - advice sought !!! (long)

[digitalangel]

Ohhh im in such a pickle!

Ive had my baby, Ras , for around 4 months now. The first 3 months i had him he was a total angel - easy to hack out, had brakes, easy to handle and generally a perfect gentleman in every way. Unfortunately the grass at my old yard was very poor so after a month of hard feeding in summer ( stop spec conditioning cubes, alfa-a, NAF supplement ) i decided to move him down the road.

The new yard is lovely, with good grass, individual turnout, an indoor school and a XC! However i noticed a change in Ras almost immediately. I took things very slowly in the first week, walking him around a lot and letting him get used to all the new things ( that said, i used to hire the school so he knew it pretty well ) and at first he seemed to be settling in well. In the second week, we even hacked out alone and he was mostly well-behaved but a bit unsettled. Great! i thought.

At the end of the second week i hacked him out with company - a mare whos field is next door to him, using the exact same route i would normally take from my old yard. He was definitely spookier than usual but i felt i could handle that OK. In our first canter, i touched his shoulder with my crop to speed up to the horse in front and i got a little buck in response. Ok, i thought, just a bit of hijinks, and didnt use my crop again.

Our hack takes us across a few farmers fields, which he knows well, so we popped the log into the field and cantered off, the other horse behind us. then out of nowhere he did the BIGGEST buck i have ever felt . i momentarily pulled him up to check he wasnt hurt ( it felt that big! ) then pushed him into trot before another canter where he was well behaved. I decided if he was going to buck, i wasnt going to get off him!

Well that was the beginning of the end. All through the second, third and fourth week every time i went to see him, it would be BUCK BUCK BUCK. bucking in the school, in hand, on the XC on the lunge, with or without tack or a rider.

A visiting physio gave him a quick checkover and said he wasnt sore, his tack was fitted to him in january and he hasnt changed shape. His teeth were done recently too.

Soon i pointed the finger to Alfa-a as i heard it can' fizz up' horses. As a precation, i took him off his feed altogether for a week, and substituted with lots of hay and non-molassed chaff. He was an angel for perhaps a week before it came back again. even though he is not being fed any hard feed at the moment.

on tuesday he bucked twice in a lesson right in front of my instructor who just told me to ride him on. yesterday he bucked tanked off on the lunge and once again i urged him on but his behaviour is just getting worse and worse the more i urge him on.

He is getting hard to handle on the ground as well. he is pretty attached to his neighbours in his field and constantly calls to them when hes in the school and he actually barged me into the wheelbarrow trying to get back to them - something he has NEVER done.

I have 2 hacks to go out on this weekend and i am dreading them, though i have resolved that if he does it again, then the vet is coming straight out, even though my insurance doesnt cover vices.

Basically, i have no shame in saying this, but i feel like i am losing my connection/bond with him and also losing my confidence. I know i am doing the 'right' thing by pushing him when he bucks but im not enjoying it and he is getting quite scary. I love him to pieces, but all i want is my trusty reliable gentleman back!!!

please help!!!!!

[The Flying Irishman]

Sorry I have no advice for you, but I know how you feel having had exactly the same situation with my horse - my lad is 12 and having had everything checked was advised to turn him away for a few months.

Some one said on here "confidence hard gained easily lost" which is exactly right.

There is nothing worse than dreading riding you own horse, its supposed to be fun:o

Good luck hope you get it sorted

Kath x

[helenc]

Can you think of anything that might have changed in his life (apart from his home change?)

Is he in his stable for longer? Is he being ridden less? Has he had any change of diet (including better quality grass/hay/haylage)

There is usually a trigger for behaviour changes - maybe moving yards was it - even if he did only start messing about a few weeks after the move, it could still be that!

If it was me then I would cut out all hard feed & start again, building it up slowly adding different feeds at weekly intervals so you can gauge if it is anything he is eating!

Is he on hay or haylage & is it the same stuff that you had at the last yard?

[digitalangel]

Ras is 8 - but ihave to ask - what good would turning him away do? Did the vet advise that?

i would rather not turn Ras away over the winter as i am planning to train over the winter to start competing Stressage again in the spring.

my confidence has definitely been knocked and now im a nearly 30 im starting to think i dont bounce so well anymore either!

[digitalangel]

Hi helen :)

no, honestly, nothing else has changed.
He is out 24/7 andis actually being ridden more !!
his current routine is to be ridden 4-5 times a week - schooling on weekdays and hacking on weekends.

As mentioned the grass was much better than the old yard and as soon as he started with his behavior i cut out all hard feed then added hay and hi-fi over a week. He has not had any alfa-a or conditioning cubes.

When i got him 4 months ago he obviously moved yards and there wasnt even the slightest hint of bucking then. He was in with mares and geldings and was not dominant but has individual turnout at his new yard but with neighbours over the fence.

and yes the same hay as his old yard.

[sheryl]

Hi,
Maybe the extra good grass is giving him more energy, and he's just feeling good at the moment:confused: . I don't know about your grass, but ours is coming through really green again.

Are they exuberant bucks, or bucks from annoyance?

If he is just feeling good, I would stick to walking and trotting for a while, and just take it really slowly:) .

Good luck

[Portia]

Sorry to hear you're having problems with your boy, sounds a bit tricky.
Yes, get the vet to check him over.

Your post seems to indicate a lack of respect for you ('hard to handle on the ground and bargy'), so perhaps some back-to-basic ground work might be of value for you both, lots of books and helpful pointers elsewhere in the forum for that. I'd also consider having a recommended associate (RA) come to visit the two of you, they might be able to help untangle the issues and set you on a straight road again. It may just be that he's undergone a lot of change in recent months (new owner and change of yard/herd etc), so is perhaps lacking in confidence himself.

Is it possible for you contact the previous owners to see if this erractic behaviour has happened in the past?

Good luck!

[digitalangel]

Sheryl - the grass was good then we had a bucket of rain over the last week ( he is just outside London ) and he seems to have died off a bit. Some of his bucks ( in the field ) are exuberance, but most seem annoyance and almost like trying to get away from me. he has a 'mean' eye shes hes doing it and he seems very tense as soon as i bring him up from the field.

Portia - ive just spoken to the vet ( im fretting at work, how sad! ) and he said to ride him this weekend and he would pop up this week. He saw him last week for his jabs (and said he seemed fine. im kicking myself for not mentioning it but i thought i had it beat because that was his 'angelic' week! )

I feel that he is losing respect, yes. he has always been an insecure boy and thats now worse when hes taken away from his friends. he has never barged before he did on tuesday and it did upset me . on that occation i refused to let go ( even though he nearly tipped me into the wheelbarrow ) i made him stand quietly and patiently until i was ready to take his collar off. He kind of checked if it was ok to go before bombing off to his friends throwing yet more bucks. im OK with field bucks, they were obviously exuberance.

Im not sure what a RA is ( im from australia ) but i have been doing some handing exercices as described in this months horse and rider mag and hes really good at those! it was just this once really.

And his old owner says hes never bucked or misbehaved like this before. :/

[digitalangel]

also should i try a calming supplmement?

[Afellpony]

Has his workload altered? May be the change in his routine has upset him.
Try a food called 'Ride and Relax (that's what I give Falcon). You have to feed it with unmolassed chaff. It's totally organic, no oatmix, no Alfalfa. It works for Falcon as he's really calm now, since I've been feeding. If you cant get that, try Safe and Sound. Apart from that I can only think he's taking the **** just a bit.

[digitalangel]

Hi workload has only changed from being ridden a bit more and being ridden in the school more - though i make sure he is always hacked out once at a week and we keep hacking and schooling very seperate.

Ill check out ride and relax - who makes it? i dont think hi-fi is molassed so that should be OK.

[Jessey]

Just a thought, perhaps he is a little bulshy by nature (I have a two like that) and now that he is on individual turn out there are no other horses to keep him in line or for him to play with, so when he is with you he is trying to play 'horse', which obviously to a person is a big hunk of muscle being bulshy :D

I would ask if there is a horse he could go in with for a few days and see if that makes a difference. I know when my boy had to be on individual turn out for medical reasons he was really bulshy (only wanting to play and get some fusses but very in your face) for a couple of months until he settled to the fact :p

J x

[SarahC]

Ride & Relax is made by Allen & Page and I also had very good results with it.

Hi-fi Light is lightly molassed but has very low sugar content. However, it does also contain Alfalfa as its main ingredient (as well as Oat straw) and I think you mentioned trying him off alfalfa? Its difficult to find chaffs that are completely un-molassed. Or at least I don't know of any and I sell horse feeds for a living!

Anyway, sorry to hear about your problems, hope you get it sorted soon.

S

[capalldubh]

Is there a reason he's on individual turnout? A lot of the issues you've described are the sorts of things horses do when they don't have company and a stable herd (this applies even if there are horses next door - for example, if a horse can't follow the others when they move away, it's very frustrating and can make the horse quite anxious).

[helenc]

Yep - sounds like he could have issues with being seperate from the herd!

It can be quite upsetting - imagine if you never had any other human contact, it would be quite depressing :(

Being able to see/touch other horses is not the same as being able to come into close contact & playing with other horses.

Are all horses at the new yard on individual turnout? Do you think you'd be able to find a buddy for him so he could be out with at least one other horse?

As you said - nothing else has really changed, going from mixed to individual turnout is a huge change for a horse so is well worth looking into especially since you've had him checked over by physio etc.

[Pink's lady]

Echo what the above have said - it's very likely to be due to the lack of company contact.:( Horse need company, some more than others, and get very stressed if they don't. We only see them for a short period of their day so the rest of the time they are lonely and stressed and then on top of that we expect them to work and behave:(

To use going from a herd to individual turn-out (even with horses nearby) doesn't seem much but it's everything to a horse. Thet don't talk so touch and body language is very important for them, which they can't do over a fence.

I would put him out in a herd if possible (at lest three others preferably) but if that's not possible at least try and get him one buddy - maybe someone else at the yard would be willing to out their horse in with him?

It will take a good month or so to see a real difference, until he's calmed right down again and stopped worrying about being left on his own. Some horses never get over it and go on to suffer really bad seperation anxiety:(

[NoviceNic]

My cob does sepration anxiety and we have just moved yards..:rolleyes: If you like pm me and I will reply to you later when I havent got my boss breathing down my neck!!!:p

[digitalangel]

Thanks SarahC - i was told that alfa-a fizzed up horses because of the high molasses content, where hi-fi is alfalfa and oat straw so isnt fizzy? if its the alfalfa i just wasted another tenner - damn!

capalldubh/helenc - he tends to get beaten up by other horses - or he did in his mixed field - he was very much at the bottom of the herd there, despite being the biggest at least 17HH! All the horses there are on individual turnout however i can speak to one of the owners of a neighbouring horse to see if we can leave the gate open between the two fields.

You are right, he does not like to be seperated by them at all - moreso if they are taken out and he is left behind. He is still easy to catch but tends to get a bit tense once hes brought to his stable block for feeding/grooming.

As a last resort i guessi could see if i could borrow a pony for the winter as a companion!

[helenc]

Well it sounds as though that could be at least a big part of your problem.

Even if horses do get bullied, it doesn't mean they want to be on their own.

I only keep two horses together, Fred is constantly being told what to do by sylvester but he still prefers that to when I have to leave him on his own if I take sylvester to a show...

I hope one of the other liveries will be understanding & at least try to buddy up, even if it's til you find another pony to live with him. Will your YO allow you to share grazing?

Is he staying out all winter?

[digitalangel]

Nic: have Pm'ed you.

Pinkslady - thanks for the advice but being a vet in training yourself do you think i should get the vetout just in case? im worried there could be some kind of mild lameness or something going on...

About his neighbours.
They are 2 mares and belong to a mother+daughter team. they are very nice and we all have a lesson on a tuesday night so he gets to ride with them though he did play up when they are brought into the school for our lesson on tuesday
he works very nicely with them ( or he did yesterday after his broncing fit ) once he has settled down. even if they leave the school before ive finished ive managed to keep him going and under control - If they are not there he will usually call for them but i have managed to hack him out by myself and in other company and he has been ok - in fact he has only bucked when either alone or around these horses.

therefore i am wondering wether it is a good idea to change fields entirely or wether they are suitable to share a field with him. I also really like the mother+daughter and would like to continue my lessons and hacking with them.

ive never had a horse who has acted like that - most horses i know like a bit of peace and quiet!

[capalldubh]

he tends to get beaten up by other horses

Best way around this is get him one other horse to share with for a while - a few weeks if poss. Try to get another horse that is getting picked on. Once they've got to know one another, try turning both together into original field - they will stick up for one another and not be at the bottom of the pile, so to speak :)

You may also find that, being a big boy, he would sort things out in the field given time. If there are established relationships, he will be isolated and maybe occasionally nipped until the others get to know him, and this takes weeks rather than days (and possibly months...). It is harder at this time of year when the other horses may feel that grazing is limited and an interloper is coming along to steal their grass...

[digitalangel]

problem is everyone is on ndiviual turnout so it would be hard to know who is being picked on and who isnt. when he was in the mixed field he would pick on the pony who was on the bottom when he was picked on, so hes a bit of a bully himself !!!

i just dont understand why he would buck around these horses if he wasnt seperated from them ( ie on a hack and in the school )

[helenc]

i just dont understand why he would buck around these horses if he wasnt seperated from them ( ie on a hack and in the school )

Excitement/showing off/trying to get their attention etc.

[capalldubh]

He's likely to be bucking because he's separated from other horses in his field, then allowed to be with them but restrained (by having a rider on board). So his natural instincts to be with other horses, to run when they do, to stand close to them, to groom/be groomed are frustrated.

So the aim is, if he has 18 hours a day with another horse, he will not be so frustrated to be near them when he is taken out of his field for a few hours.

[Pink's lady]

RE the vets - yes, it would be worth getting it looked at but you need to find a good vet who's specialised in backs etc - most run of the mill vets are a bit useless at such a specific problem.:rolleyes:

Your insurance might cover it if you think it's due to a hip/back problem. Worth a try.

Most bad behaviour like that (that isn't saddle related) is often either due to or results in hip and hindlimb lameness, which a good vet should pick up.

it's highly possibe it is nervous though. If you've ever been chronically stressed (i.e the night before a big presentation or something) you'll know what he feels like. Tense, stiff, irratable, stomach pains (ulcers are common in stressed horses) and with pent up nervous energy. For him the bucking may be his way of releiving his energy and stress. Some horses rear, others buck, some bolt or sometimes they are just bargy and difficult on the ground.

Being with the other horses whilst ridden isn't nearly enough time to releive that stress - he'll have been building up for weeks and a couple of hours in 'false' company (he can't groom or play or just relax with them) isn't going to be nearly enough.

i think before calling out a vet (which will be expensive) you should find him a good companion. The mares he seems to like would be a good start. He will need a good two weeks to calm down again. if you need to ride him in that time try lunging or loose schooling him forst to release some of his nervous energy before riding.

[digitalangel]

okay i will speak to the mum and see what she thinks about leaving a gate open between the fields. im sure the YO will be ok with it - its a fairly mature and relaxed attitude there.

My other option is to try and get a companion - i know its a bit OT - but does anyone know how much it costs to keep a companion - Ras is spoilt but im not sure if i can afford another horse!

[SarahC]

Thanks SarahC - i was told that alfa-a fizzed up horses because of the high molasses content, where hi-fi is alfalfa and oat straw so isnt fizzy? if its the alfalfa i just wasted another tenner - damn!

Thats true that molasses *can* fizz some horses up but Alfa-A ie: alfalfa has a similar energy content to a mix and this can sometimes be a contributory factor to fizziness - I know if I give it to my mare with a mix as well, she goes off on one! Some horses can also have an alfalfa intolerance rather than anything to do with energy content or molasses.
Of course high molasses/sugar content can cause fizziness too! Depends if your horse has had a reaction to either/or!
I hope that made sense!!

Having re-read everything again, I have to agree with everyone else that individual turnout could be a big part of the problem.

S

[digitalangel]

thank you pinks and capalldubh!! that really makes a lot of sense now !!! youre both wicked! im going to have the vet out anyway just in case and fingers crossed he calms down!

have just asked the mum to call me and hopefully i can go up and open the gate tonight!

[capalldubh]

Good luck - I'm sure he will be back to his old self soon :)

[Jessey]

You will probably find that once he is in with them they won't be so exciting when they arrive in the school with him ;) and once he is confident that he has buddies to come back to after a lone hack he shouldn't mind going so much, it could take a while for him to go completely back to normal.

Re getting bullied in a big herd. My horse Bo (8 yo too) if put into a large herd (of more than 5) gets beaten up constantly, but its not because he is a wos, he is quite playful and stuborn. So he winds all the other horses up trying to play with them and eventually they tell him to bugger off :D in our small group of 3 he is top dog, but still manages to get told off, even by our 30 something year old pony who is definatly the bottom ranking just because he won't stop trying to play with him and push him around :rolleyes: :D

[helenc]

My other option is to try and get a companion - i know its a bit OT - but does anyone know how much it costs to keep a companion

It totally depends on the horse/pony in question.

If you can find one that doesn't need much feed/hay in the winter then no, it doesn't cost much but you still must budget for farrier/teeth/vets/feed/hay/wormers etc. but unless you get one that becomes ill or lame, it shouldn't be too expensive.

I'd say I spend £1000 per year on average for my companion I have now, he's never sick or sorry but he does take quite a lot of feeding over winter but in comparison to my competition horse, he's exceedingly cheap to look after.

[Lucyad]

Looked up your previous post after you said you had my horse! Mine seems more laid back, but is a bit of a bucker.....Funily enough his bucking extended to huge new heights (literaly), when Capaldubh was schooling her horse in the same arena during my lesson 2 weeks ago. As soon as we started jumping, my horse decided to show of terribly, and was bucking all over the place - coming into the jump, going out of it (a favourite, as I'm not too good at getting a contact back quick enough), and randomly midway down the arena:confused: .

He has never ever been so bad, and was fine last week....I can only surmise that he was showing off to his potential 'lady friend' who he only meets while ridden. He is an a stable herd environment at home, but I think he has his eye on her...... Bloody unpredictable animals eh!

Oh, on companions, my horses best friend is a little shetland. Looks like I will be taking him on soon, as his owner isn't using him and if they sell I have asked for first refusal for my baby daughter...he doesnt eat any more than my horses left overs (hay, doenst need hard feed), lives out, so it is just field rental, worming, hoof trimming, etc. which isnt that bad when you are paying for a big one as well. You could maybe borrow one, on loan? I know someone here who is looking for someone to take one on (sorry, that isnt much help given the geographical difference, but illustrates a point)

[sheryl]

I use Graze On as a base in my feed. Its like chaff, but is dried grass only, and is not mollassed. There is alot in a bag, and it lasts for ages;)

[digitalangel]

thankssheryl ill look it up

Yesterday i hacked on my own but a friend walked on the ground with me. We got halfways around the hack and he started calling and acting quite insecure so i circled him around a bit before i turned for home. my friend had to stop to tie their shoelace and i stopped him and he reared twice - thankfully not big and i smacked him with the whip which made him go up again then made him wat a few seconds before sending him forwards. The upshot of this is that he walked on the bit all the way home so i resolved tobe a bit firmer with him.

He was turned out with one of his neighbours last night but was totally uninsterested in her and preferred to graze on his own.

This morning i had a racehorse owner/trainer out to hack with me. I explained all his problems and i dont think she believed me at first! She lunged him for me and bar an exuberant buck or two he was a total angel for her. Then we went out for our hack and low and behold....

first canter, as soon as he was passed by his new turnout mate i got the pleasure of 10-12 bucks in a row. im talking total rodeo bucks ! after the first few the trainer, who was bedind me , told me to urge him on and i got even bigger bucks with added twisting when i tried that and i eventually just resolved to hold on for dear life and scream to the rider in front to STOP!

eventually she heard me and i turned into a hysterical sobbing mess, but decided not to get off or turn for home but to carry on with the hack. I sent him forwards into canter a few more times with noone passing me and he was a bit spooky but OK. made it home in one piece physically but emotionally im a mess.

The trainer thinks i should send him away to be reschooled which i cannot afford and she thinks he is getting dangerous as the problem is gettng worse fast. either that or get rid of him.

I dont want to give up on him but he is out of control and im at a wits end.

[CurlyWurlyRach]

hmm, take race trainers advice with a good deal of thought.
My mare is stabled next to a large racing yard and shes thrown most of the jockeys off as they try to 'show her whose boss'
one lads advice when she reared was 'Smack it between the ears! itll go down if you really thrash it one!' ..... so just be careful.
Keep going with the herd idea, it does sound realated and it might take a while for the effects to kick in.

[digitalangel]

im still not 100% sure as its getting worse fast.

He is insecure, yes but he did hack out well, and had i not made him stop, he wouldnt have reared.

there is no question he is more relaxed around other horses but i dont think that it has anything to do with the bucking.

the vet is coming on thursday anyway, and i have a lesson on tuesday in which i will talk to my instructor as to wether or not it is a good idea to keep riding as he is getting dangerous.

[digitalangel]

just to update everyone....

vet cam on thursday, he bucked on the lead and bucked on the lunge.

theres nothing wrong with him at all.

the vet said to get rid of him as he is dangerous.

im devastated.

[helenc]

That's not what any horse owner wants to hear :(

Have you spoken with your instructor about this? Have you had any lessons since your last post & have you managed to get him some friends to turn out with?

[Lucyad]

Oh dear, I'm sorry to hear your news. I can obviously understand if you chose to take their advice right away, but it is so frustrating even sitting reading your posts (never mind living them!)! I wonder what it can be!!! if he was well behaved before, what can we be missing.........

[helenc]

My thoughts exactly Lucyad - some horses are just dangerous but with your boy, he was well behaved before & now something has changed which has made his behaviour change.....

I've known a few that are too dangerous to be ridden for whatever reason but none that have had excessive behaviour changes without good reason & that haven't come good in the end!

[LMS]

Oh my... so sorry to hear about your situation.
I was wondering if you were successful in having another horse share his paddock?

I remember reading here about some horses that had tumors or things to that effect altering their horse's behaviour. Could that be a consideration? (PL? what do you think?)

Have you thought of getting a Bowen or Reikki master to have a look see? Or maybe even a communicator. Hey it's worth a shot to exhaust all possible avenues!

I hope you have the strength to carry on & figure this one out before writting him off. What does the YO think about the situation? Or are you getting pressure from that end too?

[eml]

Just checking as no one seems to have asked how old your horse is? Apart from the obvious such as getting fitter from more work, higher protein or sugars in the new yard grass and living alone which is never ideal for any horse is it possible it is just a growing up faze?

I am horrified that your vet after one visit deems your horse dangerous without further investigation. I have ridden a horse who suddenly acquired a serious problem (threw itself to the ground unpredictably) but although the vets suggested and carried out various tests they would never have proclaimed the horse dangerous ...that is the owner/riders responsibility to judge.

[digitalangel]

helenc: yes ive spoken to the instructor and he bucked again on our lesson on tuesday which had me in tears again - sheadvised no cantering when we are out and to just ride him through it.

hes also been sharing a paddock with one of the mares next door and its made no difference.

hes 7 years old btw.

[digitalangel]

theres no YO per se but a caretaker guy who is there all the time.

nost of the people on the yard are telling me to get rid of him too :^(

i checked again with his old owner and there has never been any history of him bucking at all though he is known to try it on sometimes, but never bucking.

[digitalangel]

oh and ive been working on the respect thing do.

he joins up lovely in the school, but it took longer for him to do it tacked up.

i basically make myself big and scary and send him away then turnmyback to him and he will come straight to me. i did that on thursday and after 1.5 hours of join up, i rode him for 20 minutes and no bucks. there has been times when he hasnt bucked but its few and far between so im not sure if it means anything.


ive also taken him off feed completelty and bought calmer. other than that ive run out of ideas.

[eml]

My old horse started bucking at 8, similar scenario, new yard, more schooling, different but more hacking. He started in the school when bored and then whenever anyone overtook him on a hack. Did well at dressage except occasional rodeo acts.

I just put it down to the fact he was much fitter and having a fit of the Kevins at the time. The bucking did lessen as he got older but he always had a tendency to do 'airs above the ground' and they were totally unsittable!

Some people can cope with these horses but if it panics you it would probably be best to sell him on to one of them.

[digitalangel]

yep eml thats exactly what he is doing.

everyone who has seen me ride him says that i sit him fantastically and i dont look like im going to come off, but i really need to think about wether i can deal with this long term. I *know* im a good rider, and i do sit him well but one of these days i will come off and the risks of coming off and being seriously hurt could cost memy career(s) as a model and a singer and i think may outweigh the benefits at this point.

my instructor thinks i would be mad to give up on him and as i last resport i have taking him off his feed and bought calmer. the only thing i can do is wait and see.

Whats a fit of the Kevins btw? i used to livein Aussie so i have no idea what that means!

[helenc]

'The Kevins' is a phrase used to describe a horse that is going through their (equivalent to our) teenage phase. Horses aged 6-8 or 9 sometimes have tantrums & the like just as teenage humans do!

[CurlyWurlyRach]

please dont get rid of him just because people say so. If you do decide to sell him then do it on YOUR terms not because everyone else 'says so'. Ive been told to get rid of mine 'before it kills ya' a few times and im still trying my best to make things work - have uprooted her an dme and moved to a new yard on DIY and halted riding until she stops barging and being disrespectful.

I really hope you can work this out but if not theres no shame in admitting you cant cope and selling him. nobody will think less of you aslong as you tried :)

[Ptaty70]

Hi
I haven't had a bucking problem, but certainly an 'irrational' teenage problem when he was 7/8 after having hunted for a season with a mad fearless woman!

He wouldn't have other horses passing him, he would have 'red-outs' when nothing I could do would stop him, bolting etc. The problem was exaccerbated by me then getting worried about it and getting tense.

We got over all of this by carefully managing his hacking; I only went on gentle hacks with others so he never got into competitive situations (I also asked if he could go at the front to keep him relaxed), only occasionally surprised him with a canter on our rides by ourselves. I also walked him out inhand a lot for grass and so he got to know me and trust me, plus relate me with nice things.

The best thing that happened to me though was falling across a woman at the stables with nerves of steel and a calm calm calm manner. He came on leaps and bounds and became a lot more confident in himself. She'd say 'okay you want to go fast, we shall go fast and you shall not stop until I say....' he soon tired of it and started to listen.

Maybe you are trying to do too much too soon with him as it's only been a few months as I understand it (?). Relationships do take a good long while to develop but will be all the more fruitful and rewarding when you come through it.

Do you feel he is a 'nice' horse, especially at his last yard? If he is, then it is worth working through this with him and not pushing it - maybe put your dressage hopes on hold for a bit and just take a year to work with him without pressure. He could now be reacting to you who is getting stressed once he starts bucking (understandably so, believe me, I have been there!).

Weirdly enough, I used to sit in his stable and read a magazine/book out loud so he equated my voice with calm and the occasional treat and being relaxed.

I know I can't relate to your exact problem, but hope some of this helps, especially about the extra help with the riding.

Good luck!

[eml]

If you are able to sit out the bucks I would persevere as they will go away eventually if they are just teenage tantrums.

I stuck with mine although I frequently visited the ground (think lots of little bucks to shift you out of position followed by shoulder dropping big one!) but only needed one visit to A&E with torn knee ligaments.:D

He turned into my horse of a lifetime. Still talked about (20 years later) locally as the amazing dressage cob who once deposited his rider on the bonnet of the judges car!

[joshes mum]

Alfa a isnt molassed i feed mine alfa a oil and it has very slow energy release.Feeding that probably wouldnt have made any difference check out dengies website www.dengie.com

[Pink's lady]

Alfa a isnt molassed i feed mine alfa a oil and it has very slow energy release.Feeding that probably wouldnt have made any difference

Alfa-A is mollassed and quite highly too. It makes quiet a few horses fizzy. Alfa-OIL isn't mollassed and it shouldn't, in theory, make horses fizzy.

[Tootsie4U]

Im going to post without reading the last page of replies because I think things are getting out of control where they dont have to be.

Its not his feed, most likely.

Its not anything physical.

Its purely mental.

Horses need other horses to feel safe. Safety in numbers. Completely natural prey behavior.

His life has been uprooted. The routine he knew is gone. New home, new smells, new horses, new sounds, new everything, new diet... everything. As far as he knows, this whole new scenario is dangerous and for the sake of his own life he has to be on guard every second of every day until he figures things out.

Now, the only thing in his life that hasnt changed (you) take him out for his hack. He's trying to be a good boy but he's worried. On that last hack, when you rounded for home, he thought he was going home. Goody, at least its familiar! But, when your friend stopped to tie their shoe he had to stop and I bet the uneasy-ness was just too much and he let you know by reacting with a rear. Then he gets a smack. So, the person who is familiar and should be his only source of comfort right now (since he cant get it from a herd) just smacked him while he was afraid. That makes them more afraid.

Please dont think Im attacking you. But, you have to think about how your horse sees things. This happens so often that a horse taken from a comfortable routine that he's grown used to becomes a complete nutter. Its not bad behavior and he's not dangerous. He's just being a horse.

He needs time to settle. He needs to bond with the ohter horses and find out where he fits in the herd. Once he settles with that, he'll settle in his work. Give him time and be understanding.

:)

[joshes mum]

Alfa-A is mollassed and quite highly too. It makes quiet a few horses fizzy. Alfa-OIL isn't mollassed and it shouldn't, in theory, make horses fizzy. Sorry i meant Alfa oil i wouldnt feed my horse anything mollased i prefer the quiet life;)

[digitalangel]

tootsie, thanks for your post,but in not reading the entire thread you missed a few points.

- hes been out with another horse and the problem got worse not better
- he was oved 5 minutes down the road and the hack we went on is the same hack hes been on since ive had him so its all very familiar.
- the place he moved to he used to go to once/twice a week anyway to use the indoor school, so not completely new.

in any case its been a week and no bucks yet, not sure if its the join-up or the calmer but it seems something is working......

[helenc]

in any case its been a week and no bucks yet, not sure if its the join-up or the calmer but it seems something is working......

Well that is good news!!!

I really hope things continue to go well for you

[Lucyad]

Glad things got better - keep us posted re. progress.