Clicker training

[No_Angel]

Weve been talking alot about clicker training at uni, and im wondering if it would help my mum and ceryn.
Ceryn is a very nervy horse, but she is highly motivated by food and is quick to learn. She was backed a few months ago (about may/june time) and was fine with her bridle, we got her a sheepskin noseband cover and since then she has been backing up when putting her bridle on, if i give her a treat first, she will stand as good as gold to have it on:rolleyes:
Mum hasnt got the best timing, but i want something she can safely do with ceryn so she has an imput into her training.
Do you think clicker training would help with the bridleing and help mum feel more involved?

[No_Angel]

bump

[capalldubh]

It sounds like a good thing for your mum to do - it certainly helps to build a bond.

I would definintely recommend getting a book, like Karen Pryor's Dont Shoot the Dog, or Alexandra Kurland's Clicker Training for your Horse. They explain the concepts behind clicker training very clearly, and give practical examples. If you don't get the timing right (i.e. the click comes after the behaviour you want to reward (or as close to it as you can get), then the treat follows the click), it can have very different effects from the ones you want.

I wonder why she's backing off from the bridle? Clicker training won't fix an underlying issue, like anxiety about the bridle or discomfort, so it might be worth trying to work out why she's doing it before starting to train her to do something else, such as drop her head and open her mouth for the bit.

[No_Angel]

forgot to say that we took the sheepskin sleeve off as she seems scared of it.
Shes not bitted,she bitless so theres no pain, she will happily stand still for me to put her bridle on if shes had a treat before, but if she doesnt get her treat she will go backwards when i hold it up for her. Same with headcollars, if i put her own headcollar that has a clip under the throat and goes over her ears she will back off, if i put maddies on her and buckles at the nose and poll, or the rope halter, shes fine, stands perfectly still.
She came to me quite headshy, and was very wary being caught, she wouldnt let you near her in the field, we can happily walk up to her now, but not with a headcollar, i can catch her with a rope.
Shes a welsh d and a drama queen extrodanaire:rolleyes: i once brushed a fly off her bum and she jumped and gave me such a look like id beaten her with a stick:rolleyes:
Mum has a very good bond with Ceri, but as I have done all her backing/training mum feels like she will ruin her, so id like to give her a bit of training she can do herself, so can feel proud of her accomplishment (sp)

[capalldubh]

I think it sounds a very good idea then...

If she's a bit headshy, and possibly not very well handled before you got her, your job for your mum is to sort it out using clicker training :) This should work very well...

Get one of the books, start off with the follow me type games, or possibly with target training, then follow me (with no lead rope - makes horse a dream to lead afterwards).

Then, once she's got the hang of the clicker, start on what's called systematic desensitisation. It's basically using the clicker to reward calm behaviour, as you gradually introduce the scary things - first for staying calm while they're nearby, then a bit closer, then touching her, then resting on her, then being done up etc. You can also do this for being touched in usual horsey grooming places (back, withers, neck), then for being touched in unusual places (chest, legs etc, working up to belly), then for being brushed in all these places. It's a fairly slow process, but from what you say, your mum will enjoy it... the whole key to it is for you and the horse to be relaxed, and to stop as soon as one of you isn't.

Your mum will have a key job, and you'll end up with a well habituated horse.

What do you think? :)

[No_Angel]

Shes not headshy now, ive worked through that, still a bit fussy about her ears being touched but will let me do it.
The way youve descirbed it sounds like what i do already, but without a clicker, when shes let me do something or been good she gets a rub on the forehead.
It will be me doing the bridle training, not mum, but id like mum to do other things with her, can you teach horses to jump using the clicker? It will only be in hand for now but that work may be used under saddle when ceryn is ready. What about going through trec obsticles and doing gates,can you trian these things using the clicker? I was going to start these things, but if mum can do it with the clicker first then that might work.
What boots do you reccomend? theres one on ebay at the moment, this one http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/YOU-CAN-TRAIN-YOUR-HORSE-TO-DO-ANYTHING_W0QQitemZ170006967256QQihZ007QQcategoryZ109127QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem is it any good?

[capalldubh]

Yes, you can teach horses to jump - it's just an extension from the follow me games and target training.

I've heard of that book but never seen it, I'm sure it's fine... the principles don't change, they're basic psychology, it's just how well the person explains them that makes the difference.

[mayS]

I LOVE clicker training. The possiblities of what you can teach with clicker are endless.

[Lot1983]

She could be messing around just to get the reward of a treat when she does something she already knows how to do?

[Pink's lady]

She could be messing around just to get the reward of a treat when she does something she already knows how to do?

Horsed don't have the mental capacity to lie like that. To do that requires calculation and forward planning at a level they can't do.

Clicker training is great fun and something useful to teach them, even if you don't do anything with it.

The only thing you have to be very careful about it the timing. Like capalldubh said, if you get it wrong you can teach them something very different from what you intended.

A great example of that is if you taught a horse to walk over poles/jump with a clicker. You should be clicking AS they go over the poles. If you click once they're over the pole you quicky teach them to get over asap and soon have a rushing horse. Not what you intended. The bridge (the click that signals a correct action and results in a reward) MUST be during the required action so they learn that it's the action that pleases you, not the completion of it (cos then they start to do it at top speeds)

The book one ebay is really good and explains it very clearly and well. She focuses on target training but gives a good indication of how you could use it for anything.

[No_Angel]

i should be doing some clicker training at uni next week, so should get a bit of an insight into it before i do anything with my horse:)