feeding for warmth not fizzyness.

[Giveitago]

At the mo the boy gets, 3 big scoops alfa Oil, 2/3 scoop of Baileys conditioning cubes no 4, garlic, vitamin C tablet, 1 scoop Naf Magic and 4 squirts of Linseed/garlic and parsley oil. He is also getting through at least two full nets of hay. He is out 24/7 with good grazing, company and shelter and comes in for food and riding for 2/3 hours a day. We are doing very light hacking for approx an hour, 3 times a week and he hardly breaks a sweat.

He is a lightweight TBx Conn type with a winter coat that looks like a lace nighty. He is looking really well with a good cover over the ribs. He wears a lightweight rain sheet at night to keep the chill off. He is of fizzy disposition.

However, he was at the gate this morning at 7am demanding hay/feed. (He weaves when he wants something badly- long story, previous stabling to blame there I think) The YO let him in and gave him some hay. Now, he doesnt usually ask for two feeds a day until it starts freezing at night.

What else can I feed him to keep him warm at night without adding to his nervous nature?

[carthorse]

Feeding hay, which you're already doing, is the usual way of keeping horses warm. If he's got enough energy for his feed & is well covered then he's getting enough feed :)

Maybe he needs a slightly warmer rug? I've heard that rainsheets flatten the coat & stop it trapping layers of air, so although the horse is dry & protected from the wind his ability to keep himself warm can actually be reduced. Do you have a rug with a bit of filling (maybe 100g or so) or could you put a fleece under his rainsheet?

It sounds like your YO is nice :D

[Pink's lady]

His feed sound good except I'd be giving quite a lot of speedibeet as well. It's all fibre and keeps them very warm as they digest it but no molassas so not fizzy. And, like carthorse, said giving hay has the same effect.

But maybe he's just hungury?The grass doesn't have much nutrition left in it now.

If he is cold, you might just have to put a heavier rug on him though.

[Giveitago]

He's got a fleece underneath for tonight but I'm taking his middleweight rug up tomorrow for the weekend.

Do you think I should ask for 2 feeds a day and therefore double either the Alfa or hay intake?

And yes, the YO is fab!

[Pink's lady]

Splitting the feed into two would help with any hunger. Wouldn't up the conditioning cubes and I would be tempted to swap to Alfa-A lite and a cup of oil if he's fizzy (no mollassas in Alfa-A Lite). And speedibeet of course - a full large round scoop per feed. So 1/2scoop conditioing mix, 2 scoops Alfa-a Lite, once scoop speedibeet and a cup of oil. That should keep him warm and full but not fizzy.

[carthorse]

No molasses in Alfa Oil either :) but you could certainly try adding more oil if he'll eat it. Sugar beet & Speedibeet are good but keep an eye on him, they don't do much for Jim's temper!

[Pink's lady]

No molasses in Alfa Oil either

yep, your right - just went and had a look at the Dengie feed web site. You can tell the last time I fed Alfa-oil:o

Sugar beet & Speedibeet are good but keep an eye on him, they don't do much for Jim's temper!

Really? I can understand speedibeet fizzing them up - it's full of molassase. But Speedibeet has next to no molassase so shouldn't, in theory:rolleyes: But I do supect that that it's the actual beet pulp that doesn't agree with some horses - I know one mare who only needs to steal a couple of mouthfuls of someone else's dinner with Speedibeet in it and she's a nightmare to handle for two days:rolleyes:

[Jessey]

I can understand speedibeet fizzing them up - it's full of molassase. But Speedibeet has next to no molassase so shouldn't, in theory

Are you sure ;) :p I think PL meant sugarbeet (traditional) has lots of molasses and speedybeet doesn't :D

I would agree, split the current feed into two and add a little speedybeet, just watch it cause it can cause weight gain :p and split the hay in two aswell. Can you imagine only eating once every 24 hours, you would be starving by then too :D if he is hoovering up all his grub twice a day then possibly increase the hay a bit as that should bulk him out without adding too many calories or fizzing him up.

J x

[Mossy]

As much good hay as he can stuff into himself, topped up with minimally mollassed chaff based all in one, as little hard feed as poss [Ride and Relax], with a good quality mineral supplement[CLOP], and if you need extra, use Eurobeet. It is from Badminton, needs soaking like traditional beet but is great stuff. I have just described Connies diet as she gets silly on a whiff of Mollasses or too much hard feed

[Yann]

If he's up to weight and he's clamouring at the gate I suspect it's just hay he's after, the grass in our fields appears not to satisfy my two any more either and I've now got them in for a few hours a day.

Can you feed hay ad lib rather than limit to a couple of nets? Horses are trickle feeders and not designed to go a long time between feeds.

[Pink's lady]

Are you sure - I think PL meant sugarbeet (traditional) has lots of molasses and speedybeet doesn't

:o yep, that was what I meant to say:o

[Giveitago]

just to clarify,

he is never left without anything to eat! He only has one feed a day because he only comes in for this feed and riding, the rest of the time he is in the field with his mates. I wouldn't dream of leaving a horse in a stable with no hay.

So, it's not a case of splitting feeds or giving ad lib hay, it's about how to put some weight on before the weather turns.

Thanks for the speedi beet idea but it's really not for my neddy.

I might have to give in and feed again at 7pm with another couple of scoops of the alfa oil. Or, I think maybe Yann has hit the point about wanting the hay as he does seem to get through it and may leave some feed in his bowl to return to his haynet.

[Pink's lady]

Thanks for the speedi beet idea but it's really not for my neddy.

Really? why not? have you tried it? Or just not willing to give it a go? (ETA - nothing to do with your user name;)) There is nothing better for keeping weight on without fizz.

[carthorse]

Hi Pink's lady. Yes, much to my disgust Speedibeet causes me just as many problems as normal molassed sugar beet which is a shame because I think they're both excellent feeds. They seem to give him very loose droppings & he becomes edgy & sharp to do anything with. In fairness though he is naturally like this & some things just seem to make it worse!

[Giveitago]

Pinks lady- no I havent tried the speedi beet with my neddy buy I have seen it with other horses- much the same response as Carthorses reply. He is particularly sharpe already and I really dont want to increase this.

I have also been recommended Alfa beet, anyone had any experience of this?

[Jessey]

Alfa beet is a mix of alfalfa and sugarbeet, if you horse really reacts adversely to sugarbeet I wouldn't go that route. TBH it is worth trying though, I have an extreamly hyper anglo arab, with him even a sniff of pasture mix is enough to blow his brains out, but Speedy beet he is just fine eating in quite large ammounts :D If he does react badly then you could try Alfa pellets (alfa which you soak like sugar beet, but beware because alfa is really high energy, it is acctually equal by weight to a mix for energy) or grass pellets, which are very good.

The reason we suggested splitting the feed was because horses tend to get more nutrients out of the same ammount of feed if they are given it in smaller doses because of the way their gut works, because they are trickle feeders and if he is appearing to be hungry this would also help this problem. A horses feed shouldn't really exceed about 1/2 a (normal sized) bucket at a time as that is how big their stomach is, any more just gets forced through without and goodness being taken out of it.

He is looking really well with a good cover over the ribs. He wears a lightweight rain sheet at night to keep the chill off. He is of fizzy disposition.

So, it's not a case of splitting feeds or giving ad lib hay, it's about how to put some weight on before the weather turns.

I am confused, you said he is a good weight, but now you are worried to get more weight on before winter???? Horses naturally meant to gain a little weight in summer and loose a little in the winter, there is no reason to make your horse overweight just because winter is coming (unless he has a serious history of loosing masses of weight come winter).
If he is hungry you need to offer more fibre feed (which is digested slower) as this will help keep him happy and offer food (hay or hard feed) more regularly to keep him content, also fibre feed will help him stay warm so will make maintaining his already good weight far easier :D

Our grass has also lost alot of its goodness now, Even two of mine who are on a diet are now needing to be given some hay to keep them happy :rolleyes: :D

[Giveitago]

Jessey,

I am trying to get a little more weight on before the winter. He is a TBx and does drop quite a bit when it gets really cold. Last year he was quite scrawny by March even with two big feeds a day, big snuggly rugs and ad lib hay, and I am trying to prevent this happening again. He only does around 4/5 hours work a week and hardly breaks a sweat with that. He lives out.

He is now in a medium weight rug at night, I have increased his hay( although not ad lib just yet) and I have given him an extra scoop of Alfa oil after his ride.

I have noticed a change with the conditioning cubes as yet but am only giving 1/2 a scoop a day.

[Jessey]

Sounds like you are on the right track then :D

Why don't you feed hay ad lib yet if you are going for weight gain? it will be far easier to get the weight on now rather than battle the cold aswell later in winter.

The extra Alfa oil will definatly help and is a good energy ration, and so long as it doesn;t fizz him up thats great. The conditioning cubes will take a while for you to notice, i would carry on weigh tapeing and condition scoring weekly and keep a record of it so you can really see if its helping, seeing them everyday can make you miss those little changes.

J x