is it wind sucking or cribbing

[raggydoll]

just reading up about cribbing and i think what ebony does is actually wind sucking. Ive never seen either before so wouldnt know. She grabs the wood with her teeth goes all tense makes a grunty kind of sound and relaxes. And repeats. Is this grunting sound her actually wind sucking??

[Herbie's mummy]

Wind sucking:)

[Maddison's girl]

yeap thats wind sucking

[domane]

For the record, what's cribbing then?

[jenren!!]

Yep, definitely wind sucking.

domane - cribbing is just biting, windsucking is when they suck in air from whatever they are cribbing.

[Herbie's mummy]

Wind sucking is when they crib but arch there neck and actully suck in the air, whilst cribbing.

[Est]

Ugh, I hate going out on a limb by myself... :o but that's cribbing (or crib biting). Windsucking is gulping air by just arching the neck - not holding on to anything.
Crib biting is holding on to something with the mouth and gulping air.
But although that's the "proper" definitions, as you can see, they are used very interchangeably! :D A lot of people refer to wood chewing as "cribbing" and call both cribbing and windsucking "windsucking".

[raggydoll]

thanks again :)

[CurlyWurlyRach]

id say it was cribbing as ive seen horses windsuck without biting.

[Herbie's mummy]

Yes but they do still ''grab'' the wood in some way, and this is what raggdolls pony is doing, well as i have read any way.
Cribbing is just were they chew the wood, no grunting noises etc.
Windsucking is where they grab OR chew the wood, whilst holdiing on to it they go tence make a funny noise like a grunt then relax, chew again,tence grunt relax etc etc.

[claire louise u]

thats exactly what our new girl does, always after she has eaten her feed or treat. we have just today moved her and noodle to a new field and have had to fence of the fence with eletric fence to stop her wind sucking on the posts:o .

[helenc]

Both involve sucking in air - cribbers use something to grab hold of, windsuckers don't

horses that chew fences are chewers - nothing more - otherwise about 95% of horses would be classed as cribbers!!!!

[domane]

Do you have a cribbing collar for Ebony? What did her previous owner tell you about it.... is there anything you can do? I would imagine it will be pretty intense at the mo with moving and not knowing you etc.... it's usually a habit learned and associated with stress isn't it? And once a habit is there..... :rolleyes:

[redcedar]

Raggydoll, Eb is cribbing like HelenC and Est have said above :)

If she is like Max she will lean on the surface with her upper jaw and gulp in air with her neck arched. Then repete. Wind sucking is done without the use of teeth or a surface of any kind.

[Herbie's mummy]

every one says its stress as well but look what i found....

Latest Research

Five years ago Michael Peace and his wife Susi came up with a theory that rather than being stress related, wind-sucking could possibly be due to a problem horses have in digestion. They'd noticed years before that wind-sucking horses kept on limestone soils tended to wind-suck less than if they were kept on clay soils for example. They decided to try feeding Rennie (the human antacid treatment for indigestion) to a wind sucking horse they owned at the time. They gave the horse 6 Rennie tablets after his feed and his wind sucking decreased by 200%. The results were amazing albeit in just a one horse trial. So simple, yet nobody had come up with it in years of research. They went to De Montfort University with their idea who carried out an extensive trial on 100 horses and the results proved to be significant. This has changed the whole direction of research into wind-sucking in horses.

In a joint project between the University of Lincoln and Feedmark horses fed an antacid supplement did not exhibit crib biting and windsucking as often. Feedmark have launched an antacid supplement for horses - Settlelex. For more information call 0800 585525, email: office@feedmark.com, .

[julia gulia]

every one says its stress as well but look what i found....

Latest Research

Five years ago Michael Peace and his wife Susi came up with a theory that rather than being stress related, wind-sucking could possibly be due to a problem horses have in digestion. They'd noticed years before that wind-sucking horses kept on limestone soils tended to wind-suck less than if they were kept on clay soils for example. They decided to try feeding Rennie (the human antacid treatment for indigestion) to a wind sucking horse they owned at the time. They gave the horse 6 Rennie tablets after his feed and his wind sucking decreased by 200%. The results were amazing albeit in just a one horse trial. So simple, yet nobody had come up with it in years of research. They went to De Montfort University with their idea who carried out an extensive trial on 100 horses and the results proved to be significant. This has changed the whole direction of research into wind-sucking in horses.

In a joint project between the University of Lincoln and Feedmark horses fed an antacid supplement did not exhibit crib biting and windsucking as often. Feedmark have launched an antacid supplement for horses - Settlelex. For more information call 0800 585525, email: office@feedmark.com, .

Huh...that's interesting Herbie's mum. Thanks for posting that.;)

[Harvey99]

every one says its stress as well but look what i found....

Latest Research

They gave the horse 6 Rennie tablets after his feed and his wind sucking decreased by 200%. The results were amazing albeit in just a one horse trial.

Yes, very interesting: "decreased by 200%" eh? Love to see their figures for that one :confused: :confused:

[julia gulia]

Yes, very interesting: "decreased by 200%" eh? Love to see their figures for that one :confused: :confused:

me too:p

[Herbie's mummy]

sorry it is not me saying this just what i found out!

[julia gulia]

sorry it is not me saying this just what i found out!

Don't apologise;) That IS a very interesting study. We are just laughing at them treating one horse and then saying that the wind sucking decreased by 200% :D

[Harvey99]

Absolutely no criticism of you Herbies Mum :) . Good of you to find it.

Just goes to show though, how you need to take a lot of what gets posted on the internet with a large pinch of salt. There's a lot of rubbish out there, as well as the good stuff. It's often very hard to work out which is which :p .

A 200% decrease would probably lead to negative figures. i.e the horses windsucked for 6 hours/day before, and after the Rennie treatment, windsucked for -6 hours/day ????

[julia gulia]

Absolutely no criticism of you Herbies Mum :) . Good of you to find it.

Just goes to show though, how you need to take a lot of what gets posted on the internet with a large pinch of salt. There's a lot of rubbish out there, as well as the good stuff. It's often very hard to work out which is which :p .

A 200% decrease would probably lead to negative figures. i.e the horses windsucked for 6 hours/day before, and after the Rennie treatment, windsucked for -6 hours/day ????

Maybe the "lab technicians" conducting the study were on the rennie tablets too:p :p :p

[willumau]

I think if I had a horse that windsucked and read that article, I would try it whether the result is exaggerated or not. It might work for some and not for others, but you will never know unless you try. I might add, as long as the treatment is not something that can potentionally harm your horse.

[raggydoll]

she did come with a cribbing clooar but i have taken the decision after lots of reading and asking on here not to use it. She is stressed by the move and if that is what she needs to do to deal with it i will let her, id just like to help her want to do it less and im more worried about her making herself ill by not eating drinking etc. I have turned her and bim out together this morning to see if that helps. I can see all the places she was cribbing last night and she was doing if when i went round this morning. However i left them grazing together so as long as she is eating im much happier. I have some naf magic calmer i bought when i got hazel but only used a scoop so i will give her some of that to try to take the edge off her anxiety. I'll also be keeping her on a high fibre diet. Shes just having hifi and a bit of speedibeet at the mo although i tihnk ill switch th hifi to something that will help her get a little weight on.

I am finding all the research on cribbing very interesting though and having thought in my head i knew what it was and then seeing her do it it is totally different. Its actually a bit distressing to watch i think. Will be fascinating to see how her behaviour changes when she settles

[Zingy]

I think cribbing/ windsuckinng definitions vary depending which side of the pond you're on, judging by previous posts here on the subject :)

In the UK, a horse who grabs on to something and swallows air is cribbing. If they do it without holding on to anything, that's windsucking.

In the US, a cribber chews wood without swallowing air. Any air swallowing, whether involving wood or not, is windsucking.

[capalldubh]

Haven't read all the posts, but I agree with Est - windsucking is usually where the horse arches its neck in and gulps air, without holding on to anything. Cribbing is where it grabs wooden posts or rails etc and does the same - so there should be sucking/gulping going on - the swallowing air is the thing that seems to cause the relief.

I think there really is a lot of agreement that it starts off to relieve discomfort because initially it's associated with feeding time. However the key thing is, why is the horse uncomfortable or in pain as a result of feeding? THe most likely answer seems to be that horses who are experiencing stressful situations (often stabled 24/7 or for long periods for example) have upset stomachs caused by stress hormones - the same as people's stomachs get butterflies, upsets etc when they're upset or stressed.

So rather than giving antacids, it makes more sense, as with people, to try to minimise the stress that causes the problem in the first place (for years, the main treatment for ulcers in people was to control diet, until someone figured out it might be better to allow people to eat what they liked but work on the conditions that caused the ulcers in the first place).

I think it is upsetting to watch, but it might help you if you kept a note of how much and how often she does it, so that you can actually see the frequency/intensity decreasing over time - it would give you something concrete to think about.

[chickflick1066]

That's definately cribbing what she's doing Sian. We have two horses at our yard, S - he definately cribs: puts his teeth on any surface, grinds his teeth, arches neck and then gulps in air whilst grinding teeth.

Then there's J: He just arches his neck and gulps in the air without the next to grab onto a surface.

It is said to release endorphines which is why its a pleasureable (albeit temporary) thing for them to do :)

[Pink's lady]

Cribbing probably has quite a lot to do with stomach ulcers. Weither's cause of effect or just associated isn't clear.

It would be well worth asking your vet about an ulcer soother such as Gastroguard which kinda of puts a sticky plaster over the ulcers whilst they heal.

If it works, great, if not then at least you tried. I don't think it's too expensive.

[beckyboo]

my pony has cribbed for 6 years now i did use a collar but it stressed him out and i do not agree with them, ppl dont tend to like or approve of horses that crib and it isnt that much of a health issue really. the more i try to prevent casper from cribbing the more he does it. casper learnt how to crib as a youngster watching the race horses that he grew up with. cribbing is when they grab and suck, wind sucking is when they dont need wood ect just stand and gulp air in. i wouldnt try the collars, you can prevent him in the fild if others sre worried about their horses picking it up by running electric fencing 2 ft away from the fence so he cant reach the fence post's, i got casper one of them feed balls which stop him cribbing as much in the stable but if hes happy doing it and you dont mind him doing it then let him be:D