Leading problems

[Zingy]

Week 1 of new pony and I have a problem :rolleyes:

Fairly basic, but he won't tolerate being led away from the other horses. Goes so far then turns round and legs it back to them. I'm quite certina that it's insecurity at the moment, after all, he's spent far more time with them than me, but I don't want it to become a habit.

Options to stop him so far are:
1 - treats every few steps. He's used to food treats, but this does encourage him to mug me. Though it works.
2 - catch hims each time he goes, and try again. A bit like walking down a bad catcher. He doesn't run away from me when I catch him again - just stands there, so it is possible.
3 - pressure halter. Though he's never worn one before and I'm bothered about him running off in it. If he stands on the lead rope of a pressure halter he'll know about it!

Kepping hold is not an option! Neither is using a lunge line to bring him round in a circle. He turns away from me not towards me, and he means business. I am currently sporting a lack of skin on my finger due to not letting go quite fast enough on 1 occasion :rolleyes:

Any suggestions? Never come across this problem before :o

[chev]

Lead him in circles. If the others will co-operate by staying fairly static, take him on a circle with you between him and them. Start off leading close to them, make the circle bigger so he's moved away from them, and then back in again. If he tries to barge past you to get back in to them, you're in a much stronger position to stop him; as he turns past in front of you, throw your weight onto the lead so you pull his head back round towards you. He won't be able to carry on his path and stops. The minute he's stood, make a big fuss and treat him if that works. Then set off on your circle again.

Don't worry about actually leaving the other horses until he's confident about doing that. Once he is, you can introduce moving directly away from them for a few strides, and then back onto your circle.

It's a problem I've had with youngstock a few times, and yes, it is down to confidence (or lack thereof! ;) ). So far this method has worked for me (but do wear gloves!) and it's not usually more than a week or so before I've been able to take said youngster directly away with no worries.

[capalldubh]

IF giving treats works, look at clicker training - matching the click to the behviour you want and giving the treat afterwards means the horse learns not to mug you for the treats. It knows there's no point looking for treats until it's heard the click...

[Zingy]

Thanks Chev :) I'll give it a try. He certainly seemed better this morning. Took off a couple of times, but I think it was a case of "I know I can, so I'll do it". It was much more half hearted and the third time it consisted of a buck, 1 canter stride, then stopped when he got to the end of the lead rope.

Nice to know though that someone else has had the same problem and got over it! I had visions of never being able to go anywhere :o

Capalldubh, I've started some clicker training, but we're still at the stage of click means treat. It seems to be taking a while to make the connection :rolleyes:

[Yann]

The circling sounds a good idea :)

I just have a bit of a question about the lunge line and not being able to control him on it when he departs? Are you opening the angle between his line of travel and your own position before he gets to the end of it? That's how I understand it's meant to work :)

The only other thing I'd maybe suggest is some basic groundwork with him either in the field or out of it, just to try and start to instill the idea that you have some say about what he does with his feet?

[Lucy J]

my nf did this. a richard maxwell style halter worked wonders. also so did making sure i walked by his shoulder, not infront of him and encouraging him with flicking the leadrope behind me.

is the horse a kicker? with my nf if you kept hold of the leadrope long enough to push his hindquarters to the side you coud push him round to face you.

you will be able to use a lunge line and lunge to the gate in a pressure halter more easily than a headcollar as the horse will be jolting itself if it tries to run away. i would steer away from using food, may lead to a lack of respect.

[Zingy]

We seem to be making some progress - he's disappearing less often and it's getting more half hearted :)

Yann, I don't think I can massively change the angle because of how he's going. He always turns aways from me, never towards me, and takes his head right round first. So by that stage anything I have hold of is running along the side of him and he can use his full weight against me. From there he circles slightly so I have a long way to run before I could get any control (by which time he's going a little too fast!)

On the plus side, very often now I can distract him at the looking round stage. And I had him in the pen tonight on a lunge line and as it's a much smaller space, he started to figure out he couldn't disappear on me :) The groundwork may be getting somewhere. Been doing a lot of leading him around without working him as well as basic moving about. He's starting to show some interest in join up too :)

Lucy, he's not a kicker at all. I'm not sure about using a pressure halter yet in the field though. I'm bothered that if he goes and stands on it (like he often does with a leadrope), he'll do his nut. With a headcollar he doesn't hurt himself. Definitely worth a try in the pen though. I certainly need a little more control on him than a headcollar gives me and I'd prefer a halter to a bridle.

[KateWooten]

I'm bothered that if he goes and stands on it (like he often does with a leadrope), he'll do his nut. With a headcollar he doesn't hurt himself.
ok, not to be picking on you... but here's your long-term training goals then !! He needs to 'give to pressure' in all situations... including if he stands on his own leadrope, gets his leg caught in wire etc etc But you're quite right, start out the lessons in the roundpen or safe area. Personally, I have no problems using the rope halter (not a fancy-dancy $50 over-priced monty jobby, just a regular $5 rope halter) ...with a new horse, in most situations - particularly leading. ( I don't use them to tie a horse with ).

Anyway, I'm sure you know that he needs to be yielding to pressure from you and are working on it. Have you been doing any groundwork with him ? Is it working ?

[Zingy]

Progress report :) Used the pressure halter in the pen tonight. He didn't work against it much at all, but he certainly started to think twice about disappearing in the wrong direction having tried it once or twice.

Groundwork wise he's doing very nicely. Moves over when I ask him, walks forward when I ask and he's getting better at stepping back.

So I think we're certainly getting there :) He seems fairly quick to learn and he's so good natured, I think it's just a case of understanding each other :)

[Bling]

Personally, I'd get an assitant to help, so you have someone on the other side. Someone strong would be nice. . .:D