tricky situation re riding buddy?

[miggy]

My friend keeps her horse here with me, its just us two. Her current horse can be a bit challenging out hacking. She doesnt like riding out on her own (because of it) so she rides with me or has to box to another friends. The last couple of times we have been out he has been particularly bad. Last time we passed some people walking with a baby in a buggy, My horse gave him a lead but he wouldnt pass then shot past sideways bucking out as he did, narrowly missing the buggy. Today he did the same thing to a guy on a bike. I am really worried that he is going to hurt someone and feel guilty by association. Plus my son comes out with us on his pony, I dont worry about her copying him as she is rock steady on hacks and doesnt react to other horses (unlike mine!) but today (esp after reading poor pinkslady story) I was really worried my son was going to be in the firing line and kept shouting to him to stay well back. I dont like to say that I wont ride out with her anymore but dont really know what to do. Any suggestions?
I also worry about him kicking a child on a bike, our way out is down a bridleway which is a one car width private rd which kids (including mine) cycle down. Would like to go to her with some constructive advice really.

[Sol_Gemma]

i dont think theres anything you can do except be honest with her :o

[Stella2]

I think you should be honest with her. I wouldn't ride out with someone under those circumstances. Especially with a child on a pony!

[julia gulia]

Why don't you just tell her that you feel bad for her horse???? If he is kicking out and bucking only when he sees things which scare him then she needs to desensitise him to such things. I wouldn't even go into things like..I feel uncomfortable riding out with you etc. etc. If she were not your friend, how would you handle it? I would be like "that poor horse is terrified...you need to help him through this":)
Is he spooked by these things? Is he fine if you don't encounter scary horse eating baby strollers? These things you mentioned are very scary for horses but they have to be taught how to respond when they are scared.;)

[miggy]

julia-at the risk of anthropomorphising (cant spell it!) I dont think he is scared, he is an arab and quite stallion like (covers my mares sadly!) and its more like a temper strop thing. My kids are often on bikes/go karts/screaming around the barn and when he is standing being groomed etc, he doesnt take a blind bit of notice. Its almost like he is looking for trouble when out and the bombing past and lashing out are almost more of a dominance thing.Could be wrong though.
Stella2- i know, just that my riding time is limited, she can only ride at weekends and so can my son and my horse and I cant be in same place at same time. I wouldnt have dreamed of doing it if I didnt know that his pony was so good but stupidly the kicking out thing had never occured to me as hurting him which of course it could. Have already decided will not let him come out again so will have to say something to her.

[julia gulia]

julia-at the risk of anthropomorphising (cant spell it!) I dont think he is scared, he is an arab and quite stallion like (covers my mares sadly!) and its more like a temper strop thing. My kids are often on bikes/go karts/screaming around the barn and when he is standing being groomed etc, he doesnt take a blind bit of notice. Its almost like he is looking for trouble when out and the bombing past and lashing out are almost more of a dominance thing.Could be wrong though.
Stella2- i know, just that my riding time is limited, she can only ride at weekends and so can my son and my horse and I cant be in same place at same time. I wouldnt have dreamed of doing it if I didnt know that his pony was so good but stupidly the kicking out thing had never occured to me as hurting him which of course it could. Have already decided will not let him come out again so will have to say something to her.

Oh dear...very tricky then. I'm curious though, what does your friend say about his behaviour? I've edited to add...what does she do when he starts to act up?

[LindaAd]

I think you should be honest with her - tell her about Pink's Lady's mum, and say you're terrified something like that will happen to your son, so you can't ride out with her unless he's not riding too.

As for her horse, it sounds as if he's totally out of control; could he be a rig? I think I would separate him from the mares for a start, and suggest maybe she gets some help from a RA or someone like that - it seems like a potentially dangerous situation to me, for everyone concerned, including the horse himself. If one of the mares chooses to kick out, he could be hurt too.

[Vix3n]

Better to be honest with people. I'm kind of in your friends position at the moment,although my horse doesn't kick out e.t.c. He's just a spook on legs and unsettles the other horses. My friends (and they still are friends) told me straight that they weren't happy to hack out with us anymore due to his behaviour and I respect them for that. And your son doesn't need a nasty scare that could be so easily avoided. Take a deep breath and tell her straight. Good luck:)

[Imp]

The horse is a liability! It is astounding that she still rides him out under those conditions without seeking professional advice on dealing with him :eek: .

I agree with previous posts that you should be honest and tell her that you're afraid he's an accident/fatality waiting to happen and remind her of the buggy incident (and poor Pinks Lady's mum). I'm assuming she isn't completely blase about his behaviour and will be aware of the potential consequences to either herself, you and your child and other innocent passers by?

I also agree that if he's quiet at the yard and only displays aggressive behaviour outside then this is bigger than the both of you and she needs to get advice and NOT struggle on regardless - something awful WILL eventually happen if she does :(

It is hard to say no to a friend, particularly when you are telling her you disapprove of something she is responsible for but you are quite right to do so.

[Skib]

This is something I feel strongly about. And more so since reading about Pink's mother. I fell, but I was also saved by my mare leaping well clear of worse danger.

Two of my falls out hacking have taken place when the accompanying RI was on a horse that was causing him difficulty.

I have no intention of suing the RS. But it is something that I believe all riding schools should take notice of as a contributor factor: when the instructor is riding a spooky horse, an accident to the client is more likely.

Your friend may pride herself that she can manage a "challenging" horse. That is her problem to solve, not yours. Don't ride with her.
One benefit of owning your own horse is that you can decide which horses it is safe to hack out with and when to dismount.

[vince42]

This is something I feel strongly about. And more so since reading about Pink's mother. I fell, but I was also saved by my mare leaping well clear of worse danger.

Two of my falls out hacking have taken place when the accompanying RI was on a horse that was causing him difficulty.

Unfortunately it seems to be common practice for yards to match their less experienced horses to the escort rider on hacks.

It's something I'm aware of, and try to account for; indeed I try to view it as a learning experience. I'd rather experience a spooky horse with an experienced rider in charge and try to maintain a calm horse underneath.

However, in this case I think you are right to have reservations - clearly the other horse has issues that need to be worked through and it shouldn't be all your responsibility to fix them. If there is a training programme and you are a small element of it then fine if you agree - but if not and you are the only positive measure in place you should call a halt.

It's a risk sport and everyone has a responsibility to keep the risks to sensible levels, and that includes the risk to the public as well as riders. In the end if you are unhappy then you should not be doing it.

Vince

[capalldubh]

I dont think he is scared, he is an arab and quite stallion like (covers my mares sadly!) and its more like a temper strop thing. My kids are often on bikes/go karts/screaming around the barn and when he is standing being groomed etc, he doesnt take a blind bit of notice. Its almost like he is looking for trouble when out and the bombing past and lashing out are almost more of a dominance thing.Could be wrong though.


Actually, I think that sounds exactly like a horse that is scared. If it were dominance, it would happen in all situations.

Leaving a place of safety with companions that the horse doesn't trust is likely to lead to the behaviour you describe - the horse is fine as long as he is in a place he views as safe - the yard. He will not react to scary things, because he is confident that (a) they will not harm him and (b) he knows the place so knows how to escape.

When he has to leave the yard, he lacks confidence. He is suddenly in a place he isn't confident about, very possibly with a rider who doesn't give him confidence. What people interpret as aggression is most likely fear - I bet he moves a lot faster on the way home :)

As such, since the horse is OK to handle in the yard, it should be relatively easy for your friend to deal with, provided she doesn't escalate the situation by frightening him more when out. He just needs to learn that she's trustworthy and will take care of him when he's in a new scary place.

The mounting behaviour is not unusual in geldings - but it should be the only part of sexual behaviour they can perform. If your mare accepts him, and it happens when she's in season, neither are likely to get hurt. If he persists when she's not, he's the one most likely to come off worst ;)

[Afellpony]

I agree, I think the horse is scared. IMO your friend would do well to take him in the school (if there's one available) and work on getting him going calmly and more obediently. Certainly ride in the school before going out on a hack. Perhaps walking him out in hand (if that's possible) would help. I've always done this and it's helped immensely. He certainly seems to be quite unsafe at the moment as regards his 'attitude' to every day objects. As regards mounting other horses. I had an Exmoor gelding that did this. He turned out to be a rig.

[Rowena]

He just needs to learn that she's trustworthy and will take care of him when he's in a new scary place.



such an interesting thread, and one I can easily identify with!

I like the obove quote, and ask this: If a frightened/acting-up horse becomes calm in such a situation, can we assume that it is because the horse feels that we (the rider) are now trustworthy?
or is it just because they have at last learned that this 'spooky thing' is not realy life threatening to them, so then they are prepared to listen to us again.

would love to hear your thoughts on this...