HELP! Lunging nightmare

[Pony_Pride]

My daughter's 7 yr old pony is a nut bar when being lunged. Since the weather has cooled; she starts bucking and gets running on the lunge line and sometimes wont slow up and has even started to change direction on her own accord dragging my daughter right along with her. GRRR... How do I correct this?

[rabbit]

My instructor always says to drive the horse forwards when it bucks on the lunge. Works wonders.

As for the turning around, if you crack the whip behind the horse when it even thinks about making a turn, it should dissuade the horse pretty quickly. (you can even flick it on the bum)

Have a read of this article - if the pony is turning around with it's bum pointed at your daughter, its a sign of disrespect and needs to be fixed.
http://horseproblems.com.au/horse_problems_on_fixing_the_ign.htm

You can also bring (reel in) the horse on the lunge line so the horse is working on a smaller and smaller circle. This is hard work for the horse so it's less inclined to play up, and more likely to slow down.

Sounds like an adult (instructor?) needs to take charge and instill some manners into the pony, then move to getting your daughter to lunge with the adult present in the middle, then let your daughter try alone.

It is absolutely terrifying to be in a round pen lunging a horse that has bolted and won't stop, so I can sympathise with your daughter.

[Pony_Pride]

She is being lunged in a riding ring. I can't tell when she is going to take off the other way; she seems to do it so fast. I don't have an instrutor around to get the nasty manners out of this little girl. She was doing so good in the summer; then poof, she took a nasty streak. We were so upset with this that we wanted to sell her. My daughter is so tiny that when she does whip around there is no way to control her.

[SA rider]

What Rabbit says is right. The advice about reeling her in and working her on a shorter line is particularly appropriate. You have so much more control like this. If she is on a shorter line the whip is right behind her and she cannot turn as she is given no opportunity. If she as much as hesitates you can drive her forward.
If she has been good before there is no reason why she cannot be so again it is about your own determination and the discipline you instill. Soneone other than your daughter needs to apply that discipline and once it is in hand she can take the reins again.
Don't think about the pony being `nasty', think about her as an unruly child that needs taking in hand with firm behaviour. Trust me on this, I have a pony with behaviour problems and I have to be a VERY firm mum! ONE particularly firm session with strong commands and a zero tolerance approach can reverse this behaviour.

[Pony_Pride]

Thanks for you responses... I will try her with a shorter line and not give her the area to turn and take on in the other direction. I just don't know how to discipline a horse... lol :o

[Pony_Pride]

When you say "drive her forward"'; do u mean keeping her going? Sorry to sound so ignorant to this!

[Marmite]

Keep her going, at a pace if you have to. I think thats what it means, thats how ive always interpretted it :)

[Pony_Pride]

Well she got going the other day... and she woulnd't stop... she seems to start acting up when you get her to do anything past a trot. That's when the bucking and the turning out takes place. How do you discipline horses that act out? I think I am just too soft hearted and that isn't good for her, me or my daughter!:(

[Marmite]

Is she lunged in full tack? Like saddle, bridle, anything else? If so, is her back and such ok?

[Pony_Pride]

No, she isn't lunged in tack at all! Just her halter and lunge line!

[levi1739]

PonyPride, from a grandfather, your post scares me. This part especially,

dragging my daughter right along with her. GRRR... How do I correct this?

There is a lot that needs to be understood before lunging a horse. Things like what controls direction and speed are important. Being able to prevent a horse from 'pulling you along' is critical, and I would hate to see your daughter get hurt. Please be careful, and don't be afraid to take a few days off and spend it learning how to correctly lunge a horse. I apologize if this sounds unkind, there's just a lot of 'red flags' in your description that worry me.

I would suggest that you try something like "going forward" and "backing up" instead of lunging in circles. Learn to ask for one step at a time by using the method based on "pressure and release" in both directions. Start with one step forward, one back and then increase with progress. Be very aware of "when" you apply pressure, and even more aware of "when" you release it. There are many levels of pressure, always start with a light one and increase it until you get the correct response (1 foot moves in the right direction), and then IMMEDIATLY release all pressure. Do a lot of backing up and build toward a lot of steps. When you have your horse backing up (and forward, but especially backing up) softly and willingly, on light pressure, for 50 feet or so, you will see a change in your horses attitude and attention.

For my horses, eye contact on the part (shoulder, hip, head) I want to move, is light pressure. Raising my hand and pointing at the body part would be an increase, and touching with my hand would be a lot. It didn't start that way, and sometimes my horses still resist. But with "pressure and release", we always work it out.

Good luck, and let us know how things go. :)


Have fun, be safe

Jack

[Marmite]

I'd advise just working through the trot and walk fro a few days/ lunge sessions. Get her working forward in the trot, but make her come back donw to walk from it. Then, after a few sessions, surprise her with a couple of strides of canter. Which way does she turn when you say "turn out"? Towrads you, or spins round the other way?

[Pony_Pride]

When I say turn out.. I mean NOT coming into the circle, but going right if we are lunging to the left. If we lunge counter clockwise, she will sometimes take off and turn clockwise!

[horsy]

Have you tried lunging in a bridle? Lunging in a headcollar gives you alot less control if they decide they want to go the other way, as you have found out to your expense! Also bucking and messing about in canter could just be exuberance, keep pushing her through it, and she will probably find a nicer canter when shes got it out of her system.

[SA rider]

By the way if the pony takes off and starts bucking, just allow it until she's tired, let her run, just stand quietly/gently push her on (like Horsy says) and don't let her come in close to you, then when she's tired MAKE HER WORK. Don't let her rest when she decides its time.
When I say discipline I mean don't be afraid to flick her on the bum with the whip if she tries to turn. Also use your own body - walk so that you a `chasing' her in the right direction if need be.
Totally agree about lunging in bridal, also using a `coupling' hanging from the bit, to attach to the line is helpful as you don't have to keep changing the line to the other side when you change rein. Also if pony changes directions you don't get in a tangle and have to waste time sorting it out.

[Pony_Pride]

I also have to say that we are not working with her enuff. She is being boarded and I find it hard to get to see her. I work and my daughter is in school. So maybe if I was able to have more time with her... she may... just may work out her "spells". We are planning on bringing her home here shortly. But I am definately gonna try lunging her in smaller circles.

[JOJOBA]

Just a thought - have you tried long reining her? I much prefer long reining to lunging and always feel I have more control. There is a LOT less chance of her being able to change direction on long reins than on a lunge line.
However it takes some skill so you'll need someone to help you if you havent done it before. Otherwise you can get tangled and needless to say that is a lot more dangerous!
Longreining has better brakes and control in my opinion, and is of good benefit to the horse. I always long rein rather than lunging.

xxx

[Bay Mare]

Agree with Jo about long reining :) I prefer it too though I do lunge sometimes still.

PonyPride, from a grandfather, your post scares me. This part especially,


Quote:
dragging my daughter right along with her. GRRR... How do I correct this?

There is a lot that needs to be understood before lunging a horse. Things like what controls direction and speed are important. Being able to prevent a horse from 'pulling you along' is critical, and I would hate to see your daughter get hurt. Please be careful, and don't be afraid to take a few days off and spend it learning how to correctly lunge a horse. I apologize if this sounds unkind, there's just a lot of 'red flags' in your description that worry me.


Here, here! Your post worried me too. Safety has to be the primary consideration. You don't say how old your daughter is, I get the impression of still fairly young so may be way off base!

Another consideration is to have a good long look at your daughter's body language. Correct body language makes a HUGE difference when you're working a horse from the ground. You can inadvertently turn a horse by just getting in front of them. I was all inspired after a Monty Roberts demo and was doing some loose schooling (that didn't last long, she found a way out of the school :rolleyes: ) and was stunned that just by stepping in front of her and making myself 'big' I could get her to turn on a sixpence from canter ....

Another time I was lunging over jumps and she kept refusing, I couldn't understand what was happening until I looked at myself and realised that I was actually getting in front of her and effectively 'blocking' her from jumping!

[veradonja!]

hi

I understand that your daughter is seven. My daughter is 14 next month and really talented rider currently bringing on a very sharp 4 yr old - but she can not lunge to save her life!! I still have to do a lot of the ground work because she has not cracked the body language required when a horse is challenging on the lunge.

When my daughter was seven I found in very difficult to keep her pony going over the winter. But I never gave her the settling work to do and only let her mount once I was happy the pony would be polite.

One of the issues that has not been tackled in this thread is fitness. In my view you do not want to get your pony too fit as young children can't cope with it. Often they finish the summer having done loads of work and have developed a level of fitness you can't keep up to in the dark nights. Look very carefully at what you are feeding and drop it right back.

Lunge in a bridle. Attach the lunge line to the bit so that the clip is on the outside bit ring goes over the pole and through the inside bit ring - swap it over when you change the rein and just let her go round and round in trot until she settles at a pace you are happy with You may as someone has pointed out need to make the circles small but aim to get a good even trot eventually and it might take 20 minutes - but do it yourself.

Even now my daughter only walks the horse off on the lunge I still need to remind her not to wrap the line round her hand and to coach her in the whole lunging process.



To be honest I used to find the quickest way to sort my daughters ponies was to hope on board myself - As long as you don't take it to a rediculous length a native pony can quite easily cope with a small adult.

The skill is for the small adult to stay mounted!!!

[LindaAd]

hi

I understand that your daughter is seven. My daughter is 14 next month and really talented rider currently bringing on a very sharp 4 yr old - but she can not lunge to save her life!! I still have to do a lot of the ground work because she has not cracked the body language required when a horse is challenging on the lunge.



veradonja, I think it's the pony that's seven, and I seem to remember PPride saying on another thread that her daughter was 11. But either way I think you're right - children of seven or 11 haven't the experience or strength or authority to deal with a difficult pony on the lunge, and certainly at 7 most will find it difficult to manage the reins and whip.

I agree with rabbit, Pride, you ought to have lessons yourself, to learn how to lunge - it's quite technical. But I think you said on another post that you were thinking of selling the pony?

[Greentchr]

The November, 2006 issue of Horse Illustrated has a good article on lunging.

I would recommend it to you to help you understand the basics, how to use a bridle (which I agree you might find a real answer to part of the problem of control), and how to send the horse forward.

I have a 13yo son and a 16yo daughter, and I still find I need to occasionally take over on the training of their horses. There are times when a horse just needs the extra guidance that a confident adult can provide. It does sound like your horse is acting disrespectfully-read dangerous-and perhaps this is a symptom of something else going on. If she has been a wonderful pony all summer and just now having issues, the first thing to really address is that there are no pain issues.

Have you consulted anyone on possible back/mouth/foot problems? It is amazing how easily a horse can get a painful condition that is not easy to spot without experience. Something as minor as a slip in the field, a new saddle, a weight gain-or-loss, or other little mishaps can result in a sore back which results in behaviour issues as the horse trys to communicate that it is in pain.

The cost of a horse chiropracter is worth the potential benefits and the safety of all involved. Hopefully you have one somewhere in your area- they can be difficult to find. Some horse vets are good at spotting trouble, but many seem to be better at the disease end of the horse rather than the bone/muscle portion.

Good luck with this!

[tabz]

tyhis pony is taking the mick,probably needs to be taught a lesson.i suggest dont let your daughter lunge it but lunge it yourself or get somebody else 2 do it..........keep it on the lunge with a whip 4 as long as poss ,stay behind it at a 45 degree angle so ** standin behind her which will not allow it to turn in on u,basically lunge her until she tires

[JOJOBA]

tyhis pony is taking the mick,probably needs to be taught a lesson...basically lunge her until she tires
But then all you are teaching her is that lunging is horrible. I think horses very rarely need to be 'taught a lesson' in anything except the most literal sense - ie, by going to school and learning ;)

xxx

[Daffy Dilly]

I don't know any 11 year olds that can lunge. I know one that's in the process of learning, and I'm going to get her lunging my horse tonight as he's very good to lunge and her pony is hard (in the sense of wont go, and then wont stop, just trots) so if she's going to do it she needs to know how.

If I saw her lunging a dangerous horse - ie one that turned, or bolted or bucked, I'd stop her, as she's far too inexperienced to deal with that.

Can I ask why you don't have an instructor? I think it would be extremely beneficial if you and your daughter had a good one for flat and ridden work.

[Bay Mare]

tyhis pony is taking the mick,probably needs to be taught a lesson.i suggest dont let your daughter lunge it but lunge it yourself or get somebody else 2 do it..........keep it on the lunge with a whip 4 as long as poss ,stay behind it at a 45 degree angle so ** standin behind her which will not allow it to turn in on u,basically lunge her until she tires

First of all please do not use text speak. Read the forum/board rules. Many people on here don't understand text speak as they either don't use it or English isn't their first language.

'Teaching the pony a lesson' doesn't address the problem. Lunging it for as long as possible runs the risk of injuring the poor thing, it certainly doesn't teach it, or the daughter, how to lunge.

Lunging is a skill, just as riding is a skill. It needs to be learned and there's a lot more to it than standing in the middle of a circle brandishing a lunge whip. Running the pony into the ground doesn't help anyone.

[puzzles]

Regarding what everyone else has commented, have you had his teeth, back and tack all checked?
was he previously fine to lunge?
if so, at which point did he become difficult?
could a change in his life have triggered it? (e.g. does he have less excersise, less turnout, has his friend moved, is he stabled more, etc).
i think looking out for the triggers 9ie - when you ask him to move forwards, or trn, does he then go manic?) will go a long way to solving this prolem.
i think, for now, your daughter should let you take over until he is safe enough for ehr to handle.
make sure you both wear hats, gloves, strurdy boots,a nd if possible a bodyprotector to minimise injury should he kick you or something.
listen to your pony - if he dopes it whjen you ask him a certain thing, could it be muscle pain form damage?
he could be doping it merely because he can, because he's bored, confused, stressed...

always lunge your daughter's pony calmly; when he gets syked up, go back a step (i.e. down a pace) until eh settles again;if he takes off, release the rope and let him, staying oput in your lunging position until he settles again, as though that's what you wanted of him all along. let him stand for a second or two and then calmly walk over, ignore the minor hiccup, and move on.
don't give up! if he learns that playing up causes a reaction, or menas that he gets his tea/to see his friends, etc, sooner, then he'll carry o doing it.

emember that horses never do something for no reason; they are logical animals, living in themon=ment and not focusing on what you are trying to achieve but what is happening right now.
good luck!

[puzzles]

I think JOJOBA's last post was particuarly relevant, too (bearing in mind the last few lines in my last post).
x

[Bay Mare]

But then all you are teaching her is that lunging is horrible. I think horses very rarely need to be 'taught a lesson' in anything except the most literal sense - ie, by going to school and learning ;)

xxx

Can you imagine them all sat in a classroom beind their desks ...... Cue a Wallace and Grommit scene ;)

Sorry ... am in a silly mood, all that talk of Baileys (and going to see the Spanish Riding School PLUS pre performance on Friday :D ).

[puzzles]

Good luck - i hope it goes well fro yuo, whatever you do!
:-)

[eml]

Echo others comment about safety. Lunging is an art just like riding that needs to be learned.

I don't know many ponies I would lunge in a headcollar at all, let alone with a child on the end of the lunge rein. If you don't have a lunge cavesson try an overhead check, lunge rein goes from bit on outside, over head and through bit on near side.

Why does your daughter have to lunge her pony? If she is tiny she would be better riding or with an adult lunging.

[icegirl]

This is a really interesting thread as I have a 13 year old who has been taught by someone experienced (not me!) to lunge our Icelandic properly, using the right body language etc, and in fact she is much better at it than me, more instinctive I think. We did a bit of long reining too.
The difference was that the horse taught us, because he was experienced he did the correct thing when we did the correct thing but didnt go crazy if we didnt, just wouldnt do what we wanted or would stop altogether.
Is there any chance of you borrowing a horse/pony that is experienced at lunging and your daughter having a lesson from someone?
We had always lunged just in a headcollar I have to say. I didnt know that was unusual - our YO does quite a few of hers in just a headcollar.

[veradonja!]

Great point from Icegirl

My daughter is involved in the British Young Riders Dressage Scheme and on their training days they get to lunge top quality animals with an instructor. Which is great and goes to show that they believe this a skill that needs to be taught alongside riding.

I have never seen the youngsters ( riders) tackling naughty animals they are always taught with schoolmasters to embedd the feel and response.

I agree with earlier points that you should check the pony out but in my experience ponies, in particular, will try to be naughty if they can get away with it and particularly when kids go bad to school and the amount of riding drops off can be a trigger point for naughtyness because in advertantly the kids have fittend the pony up by riding for hours over the summer.

We had an exceptional 13hh pony schoolmaster on loan who has won flegling dressage classes at national level with us but was one of the naughtiest animals I have every seen on the end of a lunge line if he wanted to be. I would never in a million years have thought about "teaching him a lesson" the loan arrangement would have finshed pretty quickly if I had. You just need to work through the naughtiness firmly and calmly and be prepared to be there for a long time if thats what it takes.

I feel really sorry for you because I know how depressing it is when you feel you have got an animal thats not working out for your child.

Just take the problem away from your child and work through it

Good luck