help bargy big horse!!

[Fizz]

jay is a big boy at 17.1hh [tb x id] & has been left to his own devices for a year:mad: .

he doesnt really like being in & shows this by door kicking if anyone is about & making a mess of his bed.

he has to come in at night & i like him in when i tack up so no kids/dogs/sheep get stood on:rolleyes:

today he was doing mini rears while waiting for the farrier,got his shoe put back on, stuck him in the stable for 4 seconds & he bust the bolt in 2:eek:

has anyone had a big bargy horse?what do you do?

thinking of putting a chain across the doorway so he cant get to the door but a bit worried he might get stuck in it:rolleyes:

[sheryl]

What do you feed him? Maybe his feed is too heating:confused:

I would look at chilling him out as much as you can. As much excercise as possible. Plenty of hay in his stable to keep him occupied. And stable toys, salt lick etc.

If that doesn't help you could try a calming supplement.

How old is he?

[Fizz]

he gets hifi/pasture nuts & a bit of speedi beet.

he has adlib hay in the feild & stable, company etc etc

he is ridden for about 1 hour 5-6 days per week, he has been off for a year so bring him back into work.

he is 12 years old, has hunted/ c/x & sj before his injury:)

[sheryl]

Has the Hi Fi or speedibeet got mollasses in it? If it has, I'd cut it out.
If not, maybe try cutting out a little nuts and speedibeet at a time, and see how he goes. You could replace them with a good vit and min supplement, so that you know he's not lacking in anything.
It does sound like he's got far too much energy. Is this a recent problem, or has he always been a problem? It might be quite a problem if he's always been like this, and now he's 12:rolleyes:

[Fizz]

Has the Hi Fi or speedibeet got mollasses in it? If it has, I'd cut it out.
If not, maybe try cutting out a little nuts and speedibeet at a time, and see how he goes. You could replace them with a good vit and min supplement, so that you know he's not lacking in anything.
It does sound like he's got far too much energy. Is this a recent problem, or has he always been a problem? It might be quite a problem if he's always been like this, and now he's 12:rolleyes:

he gets no mollasses at all, speedi beet is designed for lammi types,hifi is just like chopped straw & pasture nuts are low everything:)

without the feed he starts to drop weight but has been fine on what he gets,
he doesnt have too much energy when ridden,forward but listens to what you ask:)

i have no idea if he has always been like this, i knnow he was stronger when hunted but it is only when he is stabled he acts like this.

he cant winter out so really need to find away of chilling him out

[sheryl]

Maybe try a calming supplement then.
Try to keep him occupied. Give him as much exercise as you can. Wear him out!!

Maybe he's always got away with this sort of behaviour. If he's bargy to handle aswell, he probably would be a lot easier with some firm discipline. Does he respect you as his handler, or is it all on his terms?

[eml]

Is he new to you (sorry not read all your posts). We have one horse who stresses unbelievably when stabled and is now living overnight in part of the hay barn with access to a small bit of grass. He cannot even be put in a stable to tack up as he gets so stressed he jumps out . Is this a possibility for your horse? If so not bargyness, overexcited but claustrophobic.

And a bit OT but from a bit of research this seems to be a common problem with coloured horses:confused:

[Pink's lady]

There isn't much you can do other than insist he behaves himself whilst your in with him so he doesn't hurt you.

Some horses just cannot cope with being stabled and nothing will persuade them otherwise:rolleyes: Brodie being one - he's not being naughty when he's behaving like that- he is genuinly stressed and upset so yelling at him and telling him off just makes him worse. So his upkeep is built around that - he lives out 24/7.

You could try distracting him - Brodie is very food orientated and will settle OK whilst he has something to eat, so a big bucket feed (i.e loads of Hi-Fi lite), a big pile of hay and a horse ball stuffed with carrots can help.

Try and make it as unstressful as possible by thinking like a horse. Being caged must be horrific for a prey animal so try to make it less so. Make sure he can see and preferable touch other horses and that he can see out and into the distance.

But you may just have to accept that Jay just isn't stable-able. You may just have to plan around him having to live out 24/7.

[LindaAd]

he gets no mollasses at all, speedi beet is designed for lammi types,hifi is just like chopped straw & pasture nuts are low everything:)


without the feed he starts to drop weight but has been fine on what he gets,
he doesnt have too much energy when ridden,forward but listens to what you ask:)

i have no idea if he has always been like this, i knnow he was stronger when hunted but it is only when he is stabled he acts like this.

he cant winter out so really need to find away of chilling him out


.
Hi-fi does contain molasses, to make it palatable for the horse: here's a list of the ingredients from Dengie

Hi-fi
Ingredients: Alfalfa, Oat Straw, Molasses, Mould Inhibitor, Antioxidant. Contains permitted EC preservatives and antioxidants: Propionic acid and its salt, Sorbic and Phosphoric acid and Butylated hydroxyanisole (BHA).

And sugar beet sends some horses silly. They recommend it's mixed 1-3 with chaff if it's a forage replacer.

Couldn't find the ingredients for pasture nuts if they're Dodson and Horrell - they don't give ingredients, but I think you may be feeding him more than you think ...





And has he got any company? Barney was stressed out when he had to be stabled - imagine a heavyweight cob with sweat literally dripping off him - until we brought him a friend, that he could see and groom over the door. Then he was fine.

Linda

[teabiscuit]

why can't he winter out Fizz? is it a land access problem or are you concerned about the horse?

if you have the land i'd keep him out, rug him up and give him lots of good haylage and a splash of veg oil in his feed but i'm sure you know all that already.

it sounds like he gets really anxious being in and i'm not sure you can get over that very easily.

a companion next door would help, ad lib forage, stable toys, all obvious i know.

has he got a stable big enough for him, as he's a big boy he may feel claustrophobic in a usual size stable.

[Fizz]

.
Hi-fi does contain molasses, to make it palatable for the horse: here's a list of the ingredients from Dengie

Hi-fi
Ingredients: Alfalfa, Oat Straw, Molasses, Mould Inhibitor, Antioxidant. Contains permitted EC preservatives and antioxidants: Propionic acid and its salt, Sorbic and Phosphoric acid and Butylated hydroxyanisole (BHA).

And sugar beet sends some horses silly. They recommend it's mixed 1-3 with chaff if it's a forage replacer.

Couldn't find the ingredients for pasture nuts if they're Dodson and Horrell - they don't give ingredients, but I think you may be feeding him more than you think ...





And has he got any company? Barney was stressed out when he had to be stabled - imagine a heavyweight cob with sweat literally dripping off him - until we brought him a friend, that he could see and groom over the door. Then he was fine.

Linda

i meant it doesnt have large amounts like mollichop types of feed.

no i am not feeding him too much, he gets 3 small feeds a day which has 2 handfuls of hifi,hand of pn & a small amount of speedi beet.

he cant live out as we dont have 24/7 in the winter & he would be on his own.

he has company,can see & touch fizz & next door horse at new yard & can look out the back door.

eml, he is new to being owned by me but i have known & handled him for the year he has been in scotland:)

i think at the moment is is food related,we have NO grass at all in any way,move to new yard tomorrow which has big horses & lots of space/grazing for him so hoping this helps him:)

[Pink's lady]

If he's got comapany (being about to touch other horses is a massive advatage) and can see into the distance there is not much else you can do other than make sure he's got plenty to eat and distract himself.

At the amounts your feeding and the fact it's only whilst stabled, I doubt his feed had much to do with it. But you could always swap to Hi-Fi lite or Alfa-A lite to make sure. He may need to extra calories a bit later anyway.

But if he doesn't settle you will just have to accept that he can't cope with it and have him out 24/7. With a sheltered feild, good rug and ad-lib hay I don't know many horses who couldn't manage.

[teapot]

Company, if he's not used to being on his own, he'll hate being on a yard with no other company. Had a horse at the yard like that. If he was on his own, he'd break leadropes and jump the yard gate at times.

You've got to be calm and patient as it is annoying but he'll eventually. Anychance you can tack him up outside of a stable, so that he doesn't feel trapped?

[Fizz]

i do tack up outside but as of tomorrow he is cominng back in at night, i am hoping with the bigger horses as company & horses on both sides of him he will settle down a bit.

he has always been stabled, he used to hunt & x/c with his last owner who had him in all winter, they think this started when he had to be on box rest for 2 months.

[flintybaby]

I can sympathise with you Fizz! I have a 14.2hh shire x welsh who barges out of his stable and we have put a wooden bar across. This really helps and he does not even attempt to try and barge out now! I'm not really sure how to overcome it but I'd try tying up in the stable with the wooden bar up and being really calm and gentle.

[Fizz]

thanks guys, think i will try him tomorrow :D

[Roofio]

My J(R) is a big boy aswell (18.1 tb x dinosaur!) and he can be a nightmare sometimes too; refusing to move, sticking his head in the air, snatching his feet back, leaning back when ive got hold of his front feet until he's almost sitting down!. I know it doesn't help now, but like has been said, time is the best thing. I spent a lot of time grooming him, generally just messing about with him. At first he was awful when away from his friends but now hes happy enough with me unless i try to keep him in (hoof abcess :eek: ). With picking his feet up consistency and firmness seem to have paid off. I found doing lots of long reining and loose-schooling really improved our relationship and built his confidence aswell as his fitness. I'd advocate as much turnout as possible too (Js only just started coming at night), I always worried about them being cold and that but i've come round to the thinking that theyre designed for it and can cope if it drops below 10 degrees! Good luck, and don't end up fighting cos he's always going to win cos he's bigger than you!

[dcp]

Ah you have a new horse then? Were there any other horses when he was in the stable? He's maybe insecure. I can see why box rest would make him resent stables! Just try lots of intersting things in his stable. Charlie has a lick, a ball, haylage placed in different parts of the stable and carrots in the haylage. It keeps him occupied and stops him getting distressed.

[Nookster]

Was this the boy that was in chinooks field at harburn?

There was a big lad at our yard that used to have a chain before his door to stop him going through the door which he had done.

You would have to make sure it was a good enough wall to attach to tho or you could be saying goodbye to the wall next time.

[Fizz]

yes & yes:D

lauren we are back at sandys & in the back stables.


hes doing a lot better,just need to remind him i am boss not him:rolleyes:

[Nik-n-Kia]

Hi why not get one of the rubber coated chains for stable doors and out that across it???

One of the horse at the last yard I was at was a big shires cross mare and she was 6 but she barged everywhere and cost her owner the price of 4 stable doors in a month!!!

She eventually put electric tape across the door and gave her a shock from a car battery (not as strong as mains) and after a few shots of that she never did it again and never became spooky about it either, it just taught her some respect. Bear in mind that this horse was huge ie muscle mass and was 16.2hh and had crushed just about eveyone on the yard!!!

might think it's a bit extreme but safety is what counts for you and the horse!!!

nikki xxxxx

[puzzles]

Why does he hacve to stay in?
i think you've kind of answered your own question here; is it really, well and truly honestly necessary top keep him in, or is it just for your own convenience?
once he calms down and settles with training and an improved routine, i'm sure no dog not child would be in certain danger!
:-)
i can give you the names and information/dosages of some flower oils and herbs that you can give him to help with his behaviour (i may do in a minute...)
(please message me for more details on training and feeding ,etc, if you would like)

[Denbenj]

Hiya I totally agree with comments about company... My new hoss does NOT like being in the block on his own. He box walks and sweats up. Another horse on the yard here hates being stabled he Goes on a hunger strike and just stands banging the door. If stabled overnight with or without company he will not even touch his hay...which is concerning espeically when he had to stay in recently when he had to have box rest. He will not even eat his tea if tied up on the yard!!

Good luck with your boy..its so hard when they act like this and test us!... Its all trial and error ...but i'm sure it will come right in the end...


Lenny x

[puzzles]

try these sites;

http://www.preciouspets.org/newsletters/articles/bach.htm
http://www.nmessences.com/animals/horses_mixture.html
www.flowersociety.org/Animals.htm
http://www.ifec.com.au/horse.htm

[Fizz]

yes he does have to stay in at night,& trust me its not for my convience!! like i really want to muck out two messy horses on shavings:rolleyes:

thank you for info

[Nookster]

Ahhh!! :) If it was him then he used to do this in the field also.

When i used to get chinook out he had a cunning way of running inbetween myself and chinook and then running chinook off down the field.
I would be on one side with the lead rope - nook on the other with his head collar on and he would push against the rope until nook ran off.
Chinook being chinook would panic more with a rope chasing him haha!

He would only do it at the gate just as we were about to leave. It happened often even infront of the other lady that used to have him.

In the end i carried any extra lead rope which i used to swing at him and predict it before it happened.

I don't know if he was just upset at a horse leaving.

Hope it works out tho!

[stroppymare]

This behaviour sounds alot like a horse we used to have ie bargy in the stable, bargy when other people were trying to get their horses out of the field and sometimes bargy when being led (however he had a heart of gold!).

He was like this for about the first month we had him. It was insecurity. I spend the first couple of weeks doing groundwork exercises with this horse every day and ensured he was never the last one left in the field.

This horse turned into an absolute sweetheart! He had just needed to put his trust into someone and the daily groundwork exercises, a routine and generally just being around him grooming etc helped him to do this.

[Nookster]

Thats actually a good point

How many yards has he been too recently in the past 6 months or so? he might be feeling unsettled?

[puzzles]

If he trusts you, and you him, and you have an undeerstanding of each other then your relationship will improve; try these excersises in-hand:
STANDING INFRON/TO THE SIDE OF HIM, ASK HIM TO MOVE BACK AWAY FROM YOU (WIGGLE THE ROPE SIDEWAYS, USE YOUR BOODY LANGUAGE AND - oops, capitals! - say clealry and firmly "back". when he moves, let him stand for a moment or two - you absaloutely still - and then praise him with your voice and a loving stroke. practise this until you only have to use the lightest of aidds, and whenever he barges into your space stop him and repeat this/these excersises - THEY WILL WORK!
progress to asking him to move sideways and also towards you, not pulling but with a 'smiley' (dangly) leadrope, never losing it but ebing self respectful and also to him.
demand it - never let him make you move away form him (often unconciously) and NEVER be aggressive, but be assertive and fair but firm.
you must teach him what is acceptable and what is not acceptable behaviiour, so he knows how to work with you as well as against; don't give him the oppotunity to be nasty but remember that it is his choice to work with you or against you.
tghis is not a nasty or stubborn horse, but one who may be confused; if you dicipline him one day then idnore the same behaviour the next tixe - you have to be consistant if you want to see results.
good luck, x

[Fizz]

Thats actually a good point

How many yards has he been too recently in the past 6 months or so? he might be feeling unsettled?

they did bugger all with him so i am not surprised he bardged at gates like that,he did it once with me & has never done it again.

they had him at 6 different yards in the year they had him:mad:

i have moved him to this yard & he has become lots better,he knows how far he can go:rolleyes:

[Nookster]

Might just take time then :)

He might just have the unsure - will we move again - worry. In time that will past with you love and affection and being a constant person to him

Good luck :) hes lucky to have you now

[puzzles]

Making sure he has a high fibr (and i don't just mean nuts that claim "high fibre", i mean evry time you peep over the stable door he should have masses of hay - ad-lib, plus perhaps a forage-based feed, such asDengie;google it and ask the nutritionist what to do, they're brilliant and have answered all of my queries really helpfully and nicley).

you could give him toys - you can buy them, or you can use some of these tips; for anyone who has to stable thier horse

bobbing apples in water buckets
fruit/veg hanging from baler twine ffrom the ceiling at different lengths to stimulate and give him the choice.

feed scattered in his hay

a thin branch of willow/chestnut/birch to strip and nibble at as he would in the wild.
quiet music in the yard - classical FM is the best, classical music has been proved to sooth, relax, destress and aid the concentration of horses whereas rock/loud, beaty music of that sort, has been shown to agitate and make horses unhappy and stressed.

ad-lib (constant) forage

two haynets at different sides of the stable to give him the choice and stimulate his brain

or even better, hay from the floor - this aids respiratory health and is more natural

if yuo have bars anywhere in your stable which are comfortably accesable for your horse, fill a squeezy baby bottle with water aith some added peppermint oil, wedge securely within the bars, and elt him suck and squeeze to his heart's content!

feeding flower oils (e.g. bach flower remedies) and/or herbs will help him to adjust to living in a stable - please just follow the sites i posted somewhere above or PM me fro more details - the horses choose them anyway (they can sense which ones will help them most)

have fun!