Riding problems - Novice

[Elitra]

Hello. I'm sorry but I did not see this message board, so I posted this message on the main site. Anyway, I’m a new rider, and I had my 4th lesson today. My problem is that I cannot seem to influence the horse I’m riding to follow my instructions. The horse I’m riding is stopping frequently. And no matter how much I try to get him to move forward, he just won’t. I really hate to kick him, but my instructor says that I’ve to kick him hard to get him to move, and even then he just won’t move. The problem gets worse when there are other horses around the arena. My horse will just want to follow them around, and when they stop, he stops too. I just can’t seem to control him at all. And another thing is, I can’t get him to turn where I want him to (when the other horses are around esp.), and no matter how much I pull on the rein and squeeze his sides, he just won’t. I honestly don’t think I’m doing right by pulling the reins so much. I want to know what I should do that can help me persuade the horse to follow my signals without so much pulling on the reins and kicking? My instructor says that this is because the horse has not been schooled properly and has not been working for quite some time and also for the fact that he can sense that I’m just a novice, but he is a gentle horse suitable for newcomers, which is why I’m riding him. Can anyone please help me? Thank you.

[Mike]

It's very frustrating to hear of new riders placed in your position because what can you hope to learn in such a situation? It's true you want a nice safe, steady horse to start with but no properly trained horse should need to be kicked hard and you are right to feel wrong doing this.

Are there any other places you can go to have lessons? It doesn't sound very good where you are.

[MadWoman]

To second what Mike says, yes, you need a quite horse to start on, but you also need a well-schooled one: how are you going to learn the correct way to ride if you have a horse that doesn't respond? There is no way your instructor should be telling you to kick him hard to make him go and pull a rein to turn either! You ought to be being taught to use almost invisible aids, not hauling and kicking.

You really need to see if there is a better school you could switch to. If not, have you expressed your concerns to youy instructor? Perhaps if she knew how you felt she wold give you a more responsive horse.

[Elitra]

Ok, it's hard to explain my position here. This is an Equine centre not really dedicated to riding, but mostly to cater for Vet students studying at a university that owns this centre. I'm a vet student at this uni, and that's how I found out about this place. It's a nice place to begin with, with a friendly and patient instructor. But the horses here are not used to working, as this centre is fairly new, and I don't have any idea what their history are, except what I know from the instructor and persons in charge. From what I can gather, the horses here are used for students doing equine medicine (don't worry, not for experiments, more for things like learning stable management and medical things like taking temperature). The rate here is very cheap compared to other places as this sport is considered a "rich man's" sport in my country. This is why riding here is not a very accessible sport, and is very expensive.
Perhaps that the horses here were purchased cheaply for lack of finance, so they're are probably not well schooled. I would also like to change to a proper riding school, but so far this is the one that is most accessible to me, both in terms of money and transport because I live on campus.
My instructor is a member of the mounted police here, and I honestly think that he is a good, patient, and encouraging person. Maybe this is his way of handling difficult horses. This is just what I feel, because I'm not very exposed to horses.

I want to learn how to control the horse, and it's not just this one horse, but others in this centre that I have ridden too. I did mention this to my instructor, and he gave me a more responsive horse today, unfortunately, he bucked and threw me off. He had no problems following my subtle rein squeezing to turn, but he went nuts when others started coming around and started following them (my previous post). The exercise I was doing today was to try to control the horse around simple obstacles at a walk.
I just wanted some opinions from better learnt people on how to persuade the horses to be more responsive to my signals. I've tried a lot of things I've read in books, and online, but easier said than done.
Also, in learning how to handle these difficult horses can really give me a boost in my field of study, as I want to enter the equine field. So, in my opinion, if I can learn to manage them properly, with kindness and patience, I would have already made it halfway through. I would love to have a correspondent to discuss my rides with besides my instructor.
Sorry about the length of this post. And thank you for replying.

Ps: They're no problem in tacking up, just a bit of head tossing when bridling. Besides that, they're quiet and basically pleasant to groom, etc.

[Wally]

Until you have the ability to stay on board effortlessly having developed balance and gained experience of riding good school horses being thrown in at the deep end is not easy for you.

The first horse you describe will need a determined capable rider to get him to have an independent thought, the second, again someone who can stay on and sort out his bad manners.

The instructor is wrong in telling you to kick him hard, that's why he ignores you, he's sick to death of being kicked in the ribs and has switched off.

I really recommend saving up and splashing out on some private lessons on the lunge or on good well mannered school horses, ones who will react, but not hinder. Once you have developed a feel for riding you will cope effortlessly with your less than co-operative horses in the centre.

I really, really recommend Heather Moffett's book Enlightened Equitation, it will throw light on all the problems you are encountering, it tells of other folk who have been just as frustrated as you are.

[kedwards]

I agree with Wally, if you can't get instruction on better-trained horses, perhaps you could at least get a lunge-lesson on the quiet horse.

I actually went through this same sort of thing in my first few lessons. It is very frustrating and not helpful at all. Until your seat is more balanced and you learn how to use your aids properly, you simply can't communicate with enough precision and confidence to convince a stubborn horse to move forward. A more experienced rider could get on him, seem to do the same thing, and convince him to move forward. The inexperienced rider (as I certainly was in my first lesson), can be giving mixed signals to the horse without knowing that they are - simply because they haven't developed the basic seat and aids yet. Ultimately, you may want to learn how to deal with horses like that, but you'll get their a lot faster if you start in a situation where you can develop your own basic skills.

Is there any way you can get a private lesson on a longe line at the equine center?

[CrazyfurAnimals]

Wow! So sorry to hear that your first lessons are going like they are. Its no fun when the horse you are riding just ignores you. Reminds me a lot of a horse named Hoosier that I know. He goes very slow, and does need a kick now and then. Not a HARD one let me remind you, but once in a while, if you just give them a kick it'll help out. The horse has a thick skin, but that doesn't mean you can beat him. Just keep reminding yourself that a gentle kick will do.

How about using a crop? Do your ride English or Western? If you ride English you could use the crop, and if you ride western, you could use the ends of the rains to give him a slap on the shoulder.

Also, when your asking your horse to walk on, try giving all your strenght you've got in your legs to squeeze, release, squeeze, release. Horses seem to respond better to that. And when he does what you want, reward him by petting his neck, and releasing your leg pressure.

And your right, when you want him to turn, you don't pull on the reigns. In fact, you don't really use the reigns much at all. The only thing that they are used for is to turn the front end of the horse. But don't pull! If you want to go to the right for example, just steer your hand to the right without pulling back. And you don't have to do that hard. You'll mostly have to use your legs. So if you want him to go to the right, then you apply pressure to your left leg.

If you REALLY don't like the place that your going, and you start hating riding, or if the instructor shouts at you, then you should try to find a better stable. Riding is all about having FUN! :)

Good luck!
Sarah

[Phantom-mare]

I had this problem too. what you need to do is relax your reins so the horse
dosen't thik you want him to stop. As for yor kicking problem, kick your heart out , I am not mean but tell the horse to go all the feels is a hart pat. Keep
in mid the horse cant feel his tail & main you could also ask your teacher about using a crop.:cool:

[Elitra]

I had lungeing lessons on my first 2 times. That was okay.
The second horse I was riding was responding to just slight squeezing on the reins to turn and clicking to move until the others came. After that he just won't listen.
I've had opinions about this from my other friends. They think that perhaps it is the way the horses have been schooled to respond to kicks and pulling.
I do try to reward with patting and saying "Good boy" when he moves. Sugar cubes too. Not working very well......
I would really love to go for a proper riding school. But the charges can run up to hundreds of ringgit, which is no way I can afford as a student. Certain equestrian clubs requires us to be members first before taking lessons - that would be some RM20 000.
Ultimately I'll still be here taking lessons, and helping out in my free time. I'm still learning so much about horses and their behaviour. I read a lot, and try to apply what I've read, but it sometimes seem like the horses described in the books respond very differently compared to the ones I handle. I'm wondering, are horses different here in Malaysia or what? :)
I still like it here, and I still love riding. Nothing is going to stop me from learning more.
So where do I use the crop? There are constrasting reports on shoulder or just where my heel is (how am I going to reach down there???)
Thanks for replying and being patient. :)

[MadWoman]

Just a thought, but if the horse that threw you was responsive until the other horses passed, could you perhaps book some private lessons on him to establish you seat before riding with others?

If you do decide to use a stick (check with your instructor first) then it would be best to go for a long schooling stick as you don't have to take a hand off the reins to use it. If you bang the middle of it against your thigh, the little lash at the end will flick round and just tickle the horse behind your leg enough to remind him of his job. Much better than lots of kicking!

[Razzer]

I've started recently and I must comment that this is not unusual, especially, if there is not a big veriety of horses to ride.

Even if the slow horse is doing his own thing, you will still be developing many of the skills (and muscles) required to ride the more responsive one without falling (ie developing your seat).

I'm finding that controlling a horse is very different from controlling a machine (which is what we are all familiar with) and at first they didn't seem to take much notice, but as I became more sensitive to the horse, and more relaxed, then I could tell whether or not what I was doing was working.

If he really is unschooled though maybe the poor soul just isn't sure what to do.

Beginner horses are chosen for their calm nature and are (in my experience) often lazy, and clever. You need to try and maintain a relationship with them which is both dominating and understanding. If he's already lazy and he detects your inexperience he will be clever enough to take advantage of the situation, a crop can be very useful here.

Don't worry about it too much and just keep practicing. If you can afford some better lessons - great. It takes a while before you are in control anyway so patience may be the key.

[Wally]

We have a trekking/equestrian centre. We bought some really experienced trekking horses from a friend, never done school work, just plodded about with novices on their back.

When I tried riding them using Enlightened Equitation they rose to the occasion responding so well, you would never have guessed they had never been used to such methods, Rossi who is a trekking horse through and through amazed me, picked up on the idea and went like a dream. They ignore pull and kick, but will go for a whisper from leg and bum.

Fat Cob, who had been used as a riding club pony of the pull and kick school, goes from halt or walk to canter (with me) at the very thought of it, he has a nasty sense of humour with novice riders, if you don't ask the right question he will not go, ask correctly and he'll do what ever you want. This way you learn how to get it right, if he won't canter the rider is doing something wrong!!

[Mossy]

There seemms to be teaching philosophy which I cannot get my head around. Teach novices, esp children to kick and pull and then when they get "more advanced" reteach them properly. Why not teach good technique to start with. Kick and pull ruins horses and does nothing for riding skill. I have spend years teaching Moss that I will not kick and pull but neither will I accept his rudeness. Wally is right, a rude ex school horse takes some persistence and glue to sort out. Con has never been near a school In fact until this week she had only ever had me on her back and she is so light. I may be wrong but kick and pull shows a lack of ability of the instructor so move schools.
Good luck

[kedwards]

Elitra, I'd definitely not go for the crop on the horses shoulder. If you use a crop, tap him just behind your leg or make a whapping sound on your own leg (many horses will respond to the sound alone). The problem with using a crop when you're just starting, though, is that you'll have to be prepared to reward the horse when he moves forward. Some horses will take a bit of a leap forward when you use a crop. If you're not prepared to give him enough rein when he does this (or you get thrown off guard and inadvertantly hang on the reins) then you'll be punishing him for obeying - saying "go forward! No stop!"

[Elitra]

Perhaps I'm being too ambitious in trying to control those horses without much of an experience. All my "experience" comes from the many many books I've read since I was a small kid. Of course, neither of the books say that i should ever kick and pull.
So, can I reteach those horses on how to respond to more subtle signals? (see, I'm being too ambitous again... :) )If you say that the horse has already deadened himself to the kicking and pulling, what should I do when he refuses to move or doesn't want to turn where I want him to turn? Besides the crop I mean. How do I show the horse who's the "boss"? And one more thing....how should I react to head tossing when I'm riding? The second one (the one that bucked me off) was tossing his head every few steps. I'm rather afraid of riding him again as I did not get on again immediately after I fell off (I couldn't get up for about 5 mins), and he was galloping around the arena.