Richard Maxwell

[Maci]

What's that book called by Richard Maxwell (I think??) about starting a youngster? Is it this book that has a lot and agrees with the EE methods? Silly me, I forgot! :rolleyes:

Maci :)

[fjp]

I think it's 'From Birth to Backing' - was difficult to get until just before Xmas, but now it's out in paperback. I'm still trying to find time to read it, but looks good from the times I've flicked through it!!

[Kerry's Partner!!]

Have not read it but if it's anything like the earlier "Understanding Your Horse" then it wouldn't get my vote - I'm sorry.

[Heather]

Hmmmm, suffice it to say that I would choose Mike Peace and his methods every time.



Heather

[heland]

I would chose Michael Peace as well.

My birthday is coming very soon and the books I want are Heather's and Michael Peace...................Can't wait:)

[Kerry's Partner!!]

You'll be thrilled when you get them - they ARE ace.

[Bebe]

Can I ask why people prefer Mike Peace's methods over RMs? I've seen Richard at a demo and did like what I saw but have heard not so great things lately. I'm not interested in personal reasons or anything, just would like to know where the 2 methods differ?

Thanks
Amanda

[Heather]

Mike abhors the use of a pressure halter- and has known horses killed by them even in expert hands. He also does not use the sending away part of the join up- has found much more subtle methods, which the horse does not view as a punishment.

There are also other reasons which I prefer one over the other- but from personal experience.

Heather

[Maci]

Okay, thanks everyone! Is there a book that Mike Peace wrote about backing youngsters? It's just that my friend is about to do her's, and I want to recommend some books to her on this subject, that have methods closely related to EE. Thanks!

Maci :)

[Dizzy]

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who does not like the sending away method of join up.

My horse will follow me anywhere, I've used TTeam mainly, especially the inhand exercises, I've worked her in a head collar and at the end of the lesson, clipped her rope off then walked her through them with her following me, head at my hip, we go through the labrinth, round the star, in and out of cones, and paddle over a huge fertiliser bag. There is also a pony and 2 donkeys grazing in the paddock, and there has been a couple of occasions when they've joined the line, but she sticks with me.

I'd far rather she chose my company because thats where she wants to be, than she chose me because she felt vunerable and just wanted acceptance for a bit of security. I may be wrong as I've never used join up, but to thinking in human terms, its like not accepting that the horse has a personality and feelings, I know if I was driven away until I begged for acceptance, I'd always feel on my back foot. On the other hand if someone takes time to get to know me, praise me when I'm good, but explain when I'm wrong I'll learn, trust and respect.

I'll never forget the Richard Maxwell demo I went to see, one or two methods did impress me. It was watching him saddle a lovely untouched young horse that left me cold, he 'joined up' then introduced the saddle. This lovely youngster went ballistic, twist bucking and squealing round and round the round pen, with an audience watching his terror. It just went on and on, I felt sick. I've seen and introduced the saddle to many youngsters, I've never witnessed a negative reaction. His intention was to back the horse, needless to say he didn't.

I'll stick with building trust, finding ways to work through or round problems and encouraging the horse to work with me - not for me.

Lesley

[Bebe]

At the demo I watched RM had a youngster that refused to let it's owner touch it's back legs (understandable to my thinking) and the technique he used was good, he basically just used advance and retreat with a plastic hand (to avoid being kicked himself) and the horse took to it really well. The second horse was supposed to be one that wouldn't load, but the owners couldn't get it to the demo so they ended up using one of the mounted police horses who was a bit girthy, again he just seemed to use common sense methods. I suppose with a more extreme problem his techniques may not have been as much to my liking.

I don't like join up, I think even in best case scenario it's taken to the extreme and is not how it would happen in the wild. As far as I can understand, sending away is the ultimate punishment for horses and tends to only happen to colts (stallion sees them as a threat) and injured or old horses that are a liability to the herd. It isn't practiced regularly as people seem to do, plus most people take it to the extreme anyway.

I like TTeam methods also, haven't done many of the exercises with poles but have done some of the leading exercises and touches with success.

Amanda

[Heather]

Tteam methods are excellent, and I fully approve of them.

I watched Max back a youngster when we were both lecturing in Sussex a few years ago. He rose to the trot off the back of the saddle and landed quite heavily at each stride. Three year old mare was not a happy bunny with this her first ridden experience. She shot off at the pressure a couple of times, when he used a pretty strong hand to stop her with backward traction- eeeekkk!! If he had just risen and landed much more lightly, it would never had provkled the reaction leading to my mind, to a not very pleasant intro to saddle for a youngster.

Heather

[Kerry's Partner!!]

Mike's book "Think Like Your Horse" (Michael Peace & Lesley Bayley. ISBN 0 7153 11697) was published last year. Explains the fundamental principles of Think Equus and explains their application with young horses too. He also provides checklists in the book to help you assess your understanding etc.

My personal view is that Mike describes the fundamentals on which everything else we try to do we'd achieve much much more successfully (and via a true partnership with our horse) if we strove to apply them at all times. I think the problem is, as with many things in human life that depend on fundamentals, we soon forget to keep them uppermost in our minds and instead of using them as the basis for all that we do, we are far too prone to overlook them because we become influenced by jargon, the competitive spirit etc. etc. The fundamentals - as fundamentals in any walk of life always do - "seem" easy you see. But actually it is really challenging to try to maintain the fundamental stance in all your interactions with your horse.

Sorry to ramble on. In summary, if you get the book and can master the fundamentals during every "horsey" encounter then I'd say you've achieved what most people never will.

[Maci]

Aww, that's a sad story, Dizzy! :( I've never tried join up. My instructor said it worked when she backed her young colt, but she's also heard of people who it didn't work for. Different horse, different personalities, I guess! The sending away part in join up- that would make me the most nervous, because I'd probably think the worst, that the horse would think that you were sending him away permenantly, and your relationship would break, because of the misunderstanding!

Thanks for the Mike Peace recommendation! I'll check out his book! :D

Maci :)