What to do about Megan...? Dilemma :( Harness/Driving mentioned

[Imp]

Hi all *waves*

Been up to my proverbials recently and won't bore you with the details. Suffice to say, I've been considering Megan's future which has had me reduced to tears.

Issues:


Megan is a lovely mare, she is a mare however and is stubborn, wilful, strong and opinionated both to ride and on the ground (ground issues sorted, no probs if firm but fair).
I cannot ride her properly due to injury sustained in a car crash earlier in the year and
I have relied on my very novice 17 year old daughter to help out exercising her.
This has resulted in said mare taking the total Mickey out of daughter and knocking her confidence to oblivion - all my fault :o
Realisticly, it is unlikely that I will be able to ride her to any standard until next autumn
Found part sharer who turned out to be a let down at the 11th hour :( not likely to find another over the winter
Megan currently ridden by RA trainer once each week but needs schooling at least 3-5 times weekly as green and unbalanced which possibly causes her to be difficult for a novice to ride


What to do???? :confused:

I don't know what standard I will be able to ride at in future, my injuries are never going go away completely and I have a distinct one sided weakness which she will have a field day with when push comes to shove.

I could sell her on but she has a hole in her heart and I'm firstly afraid that a new owner may not respect her limitations (no reason to suspect that, just overly concerned :o ). However, I don't WANT to :mad: I feel decidedly grumpy at the thought. I've really bonded with the rat-bag and so has ~DD on the ground. She can ride her happily bareback in walk in the school; put a saddle on her and try to trot and she's doing her own thing :rolleyes:

I considered trying to break her to harness, that way I can exercise her without needing to wrestle her under saddle. Somebody else at our yard who drives said the strain of driving would be too much for a horse with a hole in her heart, particularly in walk due to the weight of a buggy.

The long and short of this tome is to ask opinions on driving. I would think that she would only slow down and get out of puff when driven, she is unlikely to collapse any more than the next horse; she just stops.

Could we do it little by little to get her fit?

Will a buggy be too much for her?

Does anybody know of somebody who can break and train a horse to harness in the Medway area of Kent?

As a Dales x Cob she's built for pulling and she took to long reining like a duck to water (hates being lunged).

.... I'll shut up now :o :p :o

[Stella2]

Sorry to hear you are having problems Lynda :(

I'm afraid I can't comment on driving, but no doubt Wally and others will give you excellent advice on that :)

You said that she needs riding several times a week to help her develop. There are other ways. You can do a lot of work on the lunge (with side reins so that she is still asked to work into a contact). Many people swear by long reining and if you could keep up with her with your injuries, you could work very successfully and teach her a lot over the next year. My favourite method of working from the ground to teach balance and correct impulsion is using the Pessoa. I have had great results with two very different horses using this. Some people don't like them, but many people swear by them, including lots of NR people. You could also learn to school 'in hand' (as oposed to on the lunge). There is a very good book and video available on this. The work is very calm and helps young horses learn to listen and to do things (including lateral work) that keep them interested.

So you do have options other than driving, where you can do lots of useful work over the next year. As for one-sidedness. With a good instructor to act as your eyes on the ground, you can teach her how to work with that without compromising her own welbeing and balance and all the work from the ground you would have done over the next year, plus a year for her to mature may mean that she doesn't take advantage at all.

Good luck with whatever you decide :)

[Gill]

Driving is fun and a great way to go if you are not feeling just right yourself, as I have found. Horses tend to like it better than being ridden anyway. Is she good on the roads? If so I would say go for it. If your carriage is well balanced she will pull it easily.

[Stella2]

Oh - an afterthought!! Your Vet would surely be the best person to tell you whether or not the hole in the heart would be a risk for driving.

[Bronya]

Most buggies are very light, can't see why not. A child in my class has a hole in his heart, he plays sport, and can lift/carry/pull things fine, but when he's doing too much he does get breathless and tired and will slow down. Again I'd say ask your vet. If he/she says ok, then try it.

In terms of her behaviour, and your injuries... My OH can't use his left arm now for riding (elbow problems) so he and Sunny have gone Western. She's a right little madam at the best of times but is seriously attached to him, and the training has made her so responsive. She is also aware that he falls off more easily than I do, and that she has to be careful. With a proper novice she's a nightmare, with him, she's all concern and is only bolshy and naughty within the limits he can cope with. She's a mare too, and they often adapt well if their 'person' has limitations that are physical rather than just being novicey. That maternal instinct I think!

Regarding your daughter it may also be that Megan feels she's YOUR horse, and that she trust YOU and wants YOU to ride her. She would then be worse with your daughter, especially if she is not assertive on the ground. When you can finally get back on and ride, she may react very differently with you.

So even if driving ends up being a no for whatever reason, you could just turn her away and do groundwork for a year. It won't harm her, she will still feel loved, you will still have her to love, care for, groom and enjoy being around, and you can wait until you can see how you are in the autumn. Horses like to have their own person to trust and love, and they're not too bothered about everything else.

[Whatanejit]

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f270/Whatanejit/Smilies/Hello/Hi_guy.gif Imp and MeggyMoo.

What a dilemma and definately your not the only NR person at the mo going through it.

Echo the others re the vet. Don't listen to hearsay - your vet knows what grade the murmur is and as a result will have a rough idea of exercise tolerance. He will cover his a$$ though in case something happens to her should you proceed.

Also sounds like fabulous fun. What a thing for you and your girlie to learn together. Great stuff.

Let us know how it all goes.


Oh by the way, if anyone is interested I found these on line.......

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f270/Whatanejit/Smilies/donkey10web.jpg

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f270/Whatanejit/Smilies/Fortune_teller.gif

[LindaAd]

Oh dear, what a lot of problems all at once.

Just a couple of random thoughts. Have you talked to the vet about the hole in the heart? The girl I ride out with has just bought a horse with a hole in its heart - it appeared when she had the horse vetted, and she was told that once the horse was fitter it wouldn't be a problem any more, so she worked to get the horse fit and it doesn't seem to be a problem now.

How would it be if you gave Megan some time off? Just carry on with your lunging and the rest, but don't bother about riding her. After a year or so of that, she'll be fitter and stronger and so will you.

And don't give up on finding a sharer. In four weeks it'll be Christmas (eek!), and then the days will start getting longer again. I'd take on a share tomorrow if one turned up (sadly I'm not on your side of the country) - I'm sure there are lots of other people who would too.

As for driving, well I'd be very careful. I don't drive, but I think a driving horse needs to be a lot steadier and more reliable than a riding one. Going Western might be a better idea, if you could manage it and if you could find a trainer for Megan ..

[nutkin]

Oh Imp I really feel for you.I am having similar issues in that I am also unable to ride my horse because of my car accident and had a friend ride him for me.Unfortunately my horse started to take the mick with her and so I feel it wouldn't be safe for her to continue riding him.My YO will ride him once a week for me but as you know that is not enough to keep a horse fit. I have been told it will be 6months to a year before I am able to return to jumping again and like you feeling very down about it all.In my situation I cannot even lunge or longrein because my back isn't strong enough to cope and with your weakness on one side I am wondering if this may be the case with you too.I have however been able to freeschool him although last time I did this he jumped out of the school and legged it back to his stable which is most unlike him usually.Is free schooling a possible option for you at the moment? I know nothing about driving horses so cannot advise if that is a possible solution for you and the best person to advise on that would be your vet.
With regard to your daughter riding her is it possible to find a good instructor who will come out and help her get to grips with Megan and overcome her confidence issues.Another option could be to join your local Riding Club who if they are like mine will run weekly lessons which may be close enough for you to take Megan along too with your daughter.They may also be able to help you find someone willing and experienced enough to help out,maybe even know of someone looking for a horse to share.

[jinglejoys]

" I considered trying to break her to harness, that way I can exercise her without needing to wrestle her under saddle. Somebody else at our yard who drives said the strain of driving would be too much for a horse with a hole in her heart, particularly in walk due to the weight of a buggy. "

Get her a Saddlechariot like Blue has,only weighs 30kilo

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/jinglejoys/cid_001e01c702cbb9e4e1707a1a8351you.jpg

http://naturaldriving.co.uk/content_home.php

[Clare-22]

Sorry things are not going smoothly at the mo.

I can't comment about the driving but what I would say is don't listen to hearsay, ask the people in the know and make your mind up once you have reliable information :)

It would be lovely to follow you and Megan as you learnt to go in harness though, if she could cope with it :D

[Wally]

A properly weighted /balanced and designed vehicle, the bigger the wheels the better, as big wheels take themselves along, will be far, far less strain on a horse with heart trouble than riding.

Think about it, the horse is never free of a rider's weight, once a vehicle is moving it will keep moving under it's own momentum, so the horse is only "topping up" the pulling forces. Unless you are going up a long hill.

If the vehicle is properly balanced and light (which most modern ones are) the horse can walk up a hill . It's easier for a horse to gently trot up a hill, but if the vehicle is only light, you can walk.

The general rules are the smaller and wider the wheels the more drag and more uncomfy the ride for you and the horse. If the vehicle is properly balanced there is no weight on their back at all, maybe the odd few pounds on transitions.

A Bennington, or Bellcrown are light and well balanced, room to take a friend for a stomp about, and hold their value. You can always re-sell a Bennington or Bellcrown in reasonable order for nearly as much as you bought it for.

BOth companies have been about for years and are well proven in all disciplines.

If a horse can be ridden they can be driven, and with a lot less stress on body parts in a lot of cases if proper care is taken.

[Imp]

Goodness me! I knew you lot would give me food for thought :eek:

My daughter has told me she wants to stick with Megan and would like to try Western! I know NOTHING about the discipline and am not sure my constant 'leg on, leg on' mare is quite going to cut the mustard :o

I want to drive her and am looking for somebody who can train us to no avail locally yet :( Thanks for the tips Wally, will look on the wonder web for more details of carriages to suit. I dont suppose you know of somebody this far south who can show the ropes?

I'm also going to buy a treeless saddle to try because she is so much more responsive bareback (with her Bestfriend pad), I hope this may work better for her.

I am going to stop my daughter riding her in a Dually and put her back in bridle and snaffle because I feel she has a more assertive position with that because Megan uses all her strength against her in the Dually. Shame really but I need the hoss listening to her, not bugg*ring her around :rolleyes:

I have also been Ebaying :o So far I'm watching some Western tack (not entirely sure of sizing but could sell on if no good I suppose), a treeless saddle or three and have ordered a training clicker and a mug proof bag for treats: she's very food orientated so hopefully it will help as I've had the clicker training your horse book for about 18 months and only flicked through it. Oh yes, you can't get 'Donkey Wonder' for love nor money W'jit :p :D :confused:

Thank you all so much for your input, I'm really feeling much more upbeat about it all.

[domane]

Great news Imp.... thanks for the update (private AND public ;) )

I think Meggy-moo will really suit western tack :) You do have a lot of avenues to explore... if you decide western is not for you and then try driving and then decide that's still not for you, you could always reassess parting with Megan but with the extra abilities she will have you could probably get more for her... and it sure is going to be a yeee-haaaaar time getting her used to this new style...

All the VERY best xxxxx :D

[bazzarider]

Sunny used to be a kick kick pony, with western so far (and we've been learning from books!!), she's become really really responsive - Megan might well do so too. Horses seem to really like it.

[NoviceNic]

Hi IMP...:) Driving sounds like fun...Look forward to hearing about what the vet thinks...:)

[HairyCob]

It's a difficult decison to have to think about making Imp, but it sounds like DD has made it for you- if she wants to stick with Megan, you don't have much choice really, do you?!:D

She may excell at either driving or western, or both, and you'll never know until you try... go for it- go for both! :D

Good luck and keep us updated!

[jinglejoys]

And don't worry about the weight of the western saddles (Most of them siim to weigh more than the saddlechariot!)get a treeless one they usually only weigh about the same as english ones:)

[Wally]

Where are you in the UK?

There are driving instructors all over the place, The BHS and BDS list the folk with the full LHHI qualification, but there are lots of folk out there who can put you on the right track who don't have the qualifications.

Esther.D has a treeless western saddle, it's not heavy at all.

[No_Angel]

Id just get a treeless saddle and put fenders on it, alot easier, or buy a treeless western saddle,lol.

[BeachRiding]

Imp, I am selling a really nice Western saddle if your interested, I don't know what shipping would be.

[Imp]

It's decided then: I'm going to try Western (or Enya is...) and driving for Megan. Oh, and some clicker training because I think she'll enjoy that. She's such a vocally responsive pony, RA couldn't get her to back up, she never utters a sound to her when riding or long reining Megs. She got very frustrated with her on a recent lesson and dismounted to try to get her to back up from the ground. Meggymoo was having NONE OF IT thank you! She sets her shoulders and you may as well try pushing a brick wall over :rolleyes: Not a good lesson on the whole because she didn't budge even after 15 minutes of ground work to get her to step back. I'm not sure a total IH training schedule is going to benefit my wilful mare :confused:

As an aside: I always find firmly stating 'BAAAACK!' in her face with a hand gesture works, never known to fail, I only occasionally have to touch her to get her to go back. She knows she goes back or I stand up in front of her waving my arms and bawl it louder at her... hence she goes back because she hates that. Apologies if this offends anybody's nice quiet training techniques but really it has been trial and error with Megs to achieve this and it always works even when she's being bargy and obstanate (frequently). I told RA and next lesson she had me do this to back her up whilst she was aboard... worked too ;)

Willielove: I'm not sure I could afford to import it, particularly due to Customs charges likely to be slapped on at delivery :( Shame, I'd so love a genuine Western saddle from the US. How would I measure up Megan for one? Those I've seen online don't measure up like my GP saddle?

Wally: I'm in Kent, thanks for the info, will be looking into that.

I'll try to update on training as weather, Enya and my schedules and my poor ol' aches and pains permit... camera in hand of course ;)

[Wally]

A driving horse that will back on the voice alone is a very handy thing to have, especially in a team.

[Gill]

I think you will both enjoy clicker work too, I have found it great with Eriskay, a large lump of quite dominant Highland mare! If you can get to one of Alex Kurlands courses in the UK next year I really recommend it as she will give you ideas you never dreamt of.

I approached Erry's stable with her (tiny) feed today and she started backing off the door straight away, as I have taught her. She was in a small stable so her bum soon hit the wall, whereon she started to turn in a right angle and then back along the other wall until I clicked and gave her the dish.
She was an immoveable object before we started all this.
Once they understand that click means 'yes' you have a very powerful training tool.

[miggy]

IMP-on the saddle front, my son has a treeless western-the barefoot one. it is quite light, fits most things, very lovely to look at, he loves it but I find it cripples my hips as it is very wide. Might be worth trying one first.
I dont know if you ever come this way (near Lewes) but would be no problem for you to borrow it for a week to see if it suited you. Otherwise it might be an expensive mistake. We were lucky and got ours secondhand, keep an eye on classifieds on EGB website as well.

[cazrider]

I know NOTHING about the discipline and am not sure my constant 'leg on, leg on' mare is quite going to cut the mustard

Sorry to hear about your issues Lynda. What a dilemma. Some very good advice here. Re. the above comment, and for some excellent groundwork help, you could do a lot worse than contact Lewis Blackburn.

http://www.blackburnnaturalhorsetraining.com/

He's been working with me and Sennie, and its going really well. I haven't posted about it yet (I know, I will, honestly;) ), but he'd certainly sort the "leg on" thing out, help you with some groundwork which doesn't involve using your back etc, and work on the western style too.

As you're in Kent, it's not too far either.

best of luck in what you decide to do.