Aids Western style?

[ros]

Tim, Katie, help!

Mossy, Murphs and I went Western riding today over Dartmoor. It was a lovely day, and the riding was totally different to anything any of us have experienced before.

However: we were given a demonstration of the aids that the horses were trained to understand (which were of course quite unlike what we're used to English stlye) and I'd really like to compare notes with you.

Could you please explain briefly how, riding Western, you should
START, SPEED UP, SLOW DOWN, TURN and STOP (not necessarily in that order). I just have this feeling that what we were shown today didn't quite look like they do it in the films!

[myEllie]

Okay, I have not had any western lessons in a while, but I still do ride western on occassion and have had the experience of riding some really nice horses. All horses are trained differently, but I have found that the western aids are not all that much different from English ones.

First off, don't touch the reins; a good western horse should respond completely to leg and weight aids.

START: I just give a light squeeze with my calfs if I want my horse to walk off. If I want to jog, I tap lightly, very lightly with my heel and if I want to lope, it is just the regular canter aid. Slide your outside leg behind the girth and squeeze.

SPEED UP: I just apply a little more leg pressure.

SLOW DOWN: Take your legs off and sink deeper into your saddle

TURN: Most western horses are trained to move off of leg pressure. If you want to turn right, apply your left leg.

STOP: Basically the same thing as slow down, just make sure you aids are more distinct and stronger.

[Katie_85]

Hehe, okay dokey: (Oh, and I must confess, when I ride my fav. lesson pony English I forget that she is trained Western and confuse her, but anyway; :o ) Here's how it goes:

Start: Click with the tongue, or ask fo a walk. If that gets you a dumb look and a dead stop, tap lightly with the heels. Do remeber though, with Western you have a lot more leather against the horse's sides!

Turn: If the horse neck reins and you want to turn right, move your hand to the right enough that there is rein pressure on the horse's neck and apply pressue with your left leg. Vice versa if you want to turn left. If the horse does not neck rein, and some don't, do just as you would in Englih riding and with the same leg aid as you would if he neck reined. A good Western horse should be trained to neck rein though.

Slow down: Relax and sit deeper in the saddle, ask for a slower pace with the voice.

Speed up: Ask with the voice for a jog or lope, or whatever. Click with the tongue. If that does not get a response, tap light with the heels.

Stop: Sit deep in the saddle. Ask with the voice for a whoa or ho! Pull back slightly on the reins if need be.

Hope that answers everything, feel free to PM me or ask here if you have any more questions! :)

[Shadowfox]

You can stop by bringing your rein hand back toward your body. On a lazy or poorly trained horse you may have to almost reach contact or even reach it, on a refined horse an inch or two will make them slow down. To lope, Squeeze with your outside leg.
experiment,
inside leg contact may cause your horse to pick up the wrong lead, or it wont (depends on training)
touching with your heel may cause your horse to take off, a lazy horse will just look at you.

[myEllie]

Although western horses are trained to neck rein, most don't need any movement of the reins. Watch the AQHA worlds or youth worlds, you won't see any of them moving the reins. Also, don't use your voice, especially if you are in a class. It is very irritating to judges.

[Mossy]

Thanks. That is what I remember from years ago. As I said elsewhere yesterday was interesting the aids were ALL rein and very little leg and seat.

[myEllie]

Oh boy, I hope you weren't paying for that advice.

[FRED]

Hi Ros, during the brief time I had ridding western, the majority of aids were the same as English.One big difference is absolutely no contact through the reins,{you could clearly see that riders who took up contact ended up with a very agitated horse,the same riders could not trot with reins in one hand and poor horse were shaking their head in frustration at their riders constant pulling}When neck reining we only rested the rein on the horses neck,it was unbelievable how responsive they were.

Last week I watched a demonstration on video of a western riding instructor,without stirrups or reins,she could turn the horse easily and with precision,ask for different gaits and stop the horse from a quick trot,all without stirrups or reins.
She wanted all to riders to learn what she has learnt,you can guess who she reminded me of:)
The only thing I found odd was getting used to the stirrups
:rolleyes:

[Outrider]

Ok, I'll ride in on this one. :) True, western riding is a lot of leg and weight as myEllie described, it also depends on what you are using the horse for. Yes, you can train a horse to move totally off of leg, weight and voice commands, but the reins are used quite a bit more than most folks realize I think. The trick is the subtlety of the rein use in conjunction with the leg aids. When a horse is asked to do turns or stops, the reins ARE used in the higher trained horses, but the use is so slight that it is hard to detect. Neck reining is used in reining and cutting classes, but it can be seen in most any western class. It is the lightness of touch that makes the difference. Happy Trails!

[ros]

Thanks everyone.

As Mossy said, most of what we were told was down to reins, and blooming funny rein aids at that! I'd really like to take some of you guys from over the water to White Tor and have you educate that man! Trouble is, you have to try it their way because you have to assume that's what the horses are trained to understand: although I have a feeling mine would have been a lot happier ridden ordinary Western, or even English style! Maybe I'll kidnap poor old Doc and rehabilitate him...

[Katie_85]

Tell ya' what, I belive a lot of it is in the training. My favorite lesson pony is trained Western, but he almost completely ignores the rein aids if you ask her to neck rein. It all comes down to ho rides them. True, a well trained WEstern horse should go so well and be so responsive, but we can't all have horses like that to work with so we can't have that invisible rein work. Boy I do wish though! ;) :)

[K&K]

okay, i'm confused now ... several of you said, "if you want to turn right, apply your left leg". in my english riding lessons i was taught to, when going right, apply the *right* leg and move the left leg into the "behind the girth" position to guide the quarters. is this another difference between english and western?

[Outrider]

It all goes back to how the horse is trained, K&K. I bleieve most western riders train the horse to turn with the opposite leg, ie, left leg for right turn(in conjunction with a left neck rein), but I have seen it trained both ways. I have also had different people ask me to train their horses differently. Some want the horse to move or turn "around" the leg cue, some want the horse to "move away" from leg pressure and into the turn. Happy Trails!

[RoxR]

It's interesting to hear you say that, Outrider! Before I decided to learn western with Roxy, I had started her english, and part of that meant turning her around the inside leg placed on the girth. I have been a bit unsure as to whether to change and teach her to move away from the other leg, but didn't want to confuse her.

I seem to have found something that works, which is as I think about turning right, I imagine turning her between both my legs, so the inside one touches her on the girth, but the outside one also places a small amount of pressure right the way down.

As I said, it seems to work and is less confusing for her, as she knows the difference between turning to the right, and sidepassing to the right (although we do need to practise that a bit more!) The weight shift in the saddle also makes a difference too, as to sidepass I feel it's more pronounced on the side to 'push' her away, but to turn it's slightly more central.

Does this sound OK or am I completely making it up as I go along??!!!!

:D

[Sue Carnell]

On the whitetor website it says that the owner is at level 3 in Parelli Natural Horsemanship. This probably explains the difference in the aiding. Did you ride in the 'Natural Horseman Hackamores'? Halters with ropes attached? From what I've seen of it, the rein (rope) aids are really exaggerated by many PNH students, with lots of one-rein stops and bending, to make sure the rider's got control, bumping leg aids and really exaggerated, almost leading with the rope, arm aids for turning and they're direct aids, not really neck-reining, though that comes into it if they take the rope over far enough.

I did go Western riding once at Longhorn, where we rode around Longleat. I was given one of the lead horses and he was fab. We did cluck for jog, kiss for lope and lean back a little bit for halt. The horse I rode was a really sensitive Appendix QH. I really enjoyed riding him.

Sue Carnell
sue@eclipse.co.uk

[ros]

Aha! That sounds like it, Sue. The clucking and kissing bit was in there as well. We did have rope halters, but with English bits in as well for the most part.

That's put me right off Parelli, that has! If Matey was acutally qualified to a degree in PNH, I can see now why a number of people have said that there seems to be an undesirable element of force in the method. He certainly didn't seem to want a 50-50 partnership with his horse as Mike Peace does: more like 90-10 in his favour!

[saddlesore]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by K&K
[B]okay, i'm confused now ...

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i haven't been riding very long but i'm learning with the use of the reins with very little leg aids (pressure to get the horse moving). learning with leg aids will come later. but the way these horses are trained is to move away from contact/pressure, so if i want to turn right i move both hands to the right with the rt hand moving the rein away from the rt side and the left hand making the left rein touch the left side, horse moves rt.. leg aids are the same, for turning that is. hope that helps a little...