Blue & white but for how long?? *pic*

[Iron Maiden]

P is blue & white. I'm assuming that one day she will be white & white so a bucket of water will be required to prove she really is coloured. Thing is, I have no idea really - am I right, or is there a chance she will stay blue & white? And if she is going to bleach out, any guesses about how long have I got before I end up with a totally white horse that shows every poo stain beautifully?

Here she is, she is 4 - not the best pic but she was eating & didn't want to be disturbed. She loves her grub!

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o233/rancidprong/DSCF0134.jpg

Her dad is 9 and is bleached out blue & white. Her mum was by Oberon, who is a proper sku so she has colour on both sides (don't know if this makes the slightest difference anyway!). Her old owner sent me some pix of her taken last year & she doesn't look any darker than she is now.

[chev]

She's not greying as fast as some, but yes, she will end up white & white! I would imagin by her teens she'll have lost most, if not all her colour, and certainly by her mid teens she'll be white.

Colour on both sides makes no difference; that's just what gives her the pattern, and there's no difference visually between a horse with two copies of a pattern like tobiano and a horse with one. The only difference it would make is when breeding - it affects whether or not you're guaranteed a coloured foal. Was her mum coloured? I'm guessing not since you don't mention that - in that case, Oberon's colour is of no importance at all, since patterns don't skip generations and have no effect on grandchildren.

She has one copy of grey, from dad - again, the number of copies is of no consequence unless breeding and trying to work out foal colour.

[Iron Maiden]

Thanks Chev, that's what I thought (or feared!). Hopefully I've got a few years to go before I have to take out shares in a horse shampoo company...

I don't actually know if her mum was coloured, I would love to breed out of her one day but if that happened I think the likely colour of P jnr would be quite far down the list in terms of picking who's the daddy. After 3 skewbalds it might be nice to have something a bit easier to keep clean!

[skewpie]

My Maisie is 6 and her colour is almost gone
http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q144/skewpie/mypictures0005.jpg
Her dad is Stanhoped odwig and her mum a grey ID
Idont mind her losing her colour she was the same as P when she was born where she is dapple now,shes still eligable for all the coloured classes and apart from the colou and marking classes she does very well as it has to be conformation etc they are marked on in the other classes

[Plopple]

I'm assuming that one day she will be white & white so a bucket of water will be required to prove she really is coloured.



when you say a bucket of water ... what do you mean? shes lovely x

[Nik-n-Kia]

Are you sure that she will defo lose her colouring??

She might just stay roany very light but roany.

I've seen steel greys go white tho so I'm familiar with the bleaching thing.

Hope she doesn't lose the blue as she is eyecatching with it!!!!

Nikki xxx

[chev]

Plopple - once she's white all over, the only way to see her pattern is to get her wet - that shows up the dark skin (where the grey is now) hidden under the white coat.

Nik-n-Kia - yes, she will definitely go white eventually. All greys do - even the darkest iron grey is just part of a gradual proccess that will end up white. Grey gradually inhibits the body's ability to produce pigment in the skin, so all greys, if they live long enough, end up white all over. Some grey faster than others - I have a sec A mare who was completely white by the time we bought her aged six, and a gelding who is still dapple grey with darker points as he approaches his teens. The rate at which they go white varies; but all greys do end up white without exception.

Some do then go on to develop fleabites or blood marks, but that's the final stage of grey and happens after they go white. And it doesn't happen in all greys.

Blue eyes will stay blue - blue eyes are not connected with the grey gene at all. They are usually caused by a gene called splash, which also causes big white faces (often one-sided blazes too) and big white legs.

[Nik-n-Kia]

Thanks chev was exposed to the process but i didn't know if it affected all grey/coloured/roany!!!:D

Cheers!!!!

nikki xxxx :p :D

[Bobbin]

Well you learn something every day.

Why does that happen then?

[chev]

The why part is a bit complicated!

There is basically one colour gene - the extension gene. It dictates whether or not a horse is able to produce melanin (the black pigment) in it's coat.

Horses produce two pigments - red and black. If it's able to produce black, it'll be black based - if not, it'll be red based (chestnut).

Every other colour a horse can be is dictated by genes that affect the way in which that pigment is produced.

Bay, for example, restricts any black pigment produced to teh points.

Cream dilutes red pigment (or both black and red if a horse has two copies).

Dun dilutes the main body colour while also producing certain patterns of pigment (dorsal stripes, masks, zebra stripes etc).

Grey gradually restricts the amount of pigment produced in the coat (not the skin) until the horse produces no pigment at all.

Exactly how these genes work is rather complicated - relying mainly on interactions between various proteins and chemicals that are predetermined.

[Iron Maiden]

Thanks again Chev, wow, never realised there was so much to it! I studied genetics as an option at Uni but we never did anything as interesting as this, it was all fruit flies & horrible hereditary diseases. If they'd put horse colours in the syllabus I might have paid some attention!

Skewpie - Maisie is gorgeous, I bet it takes some doing to turn her out as beautifully as that. Both my previous skewbalds had black tails so I'm going to have to learn the art of tailwashing! I'd better make the most of my still blue & white horsey and the liberties I can take with turnout while I can...

[¿M€®¥ñ™]

Wow how interesting. I'd love to learn all about genetics when I leave high school. I thought that she would turn white when I saw her pic but I didn't actually know that ALL grays turn white.

Chev - what defines a gray? I'm just confused because does that mean that all pintos turn white all over? Or are the ones that turn white all over like the one that this thread is about and borne with the coloured bits already 'roaned'?

[skewpie]

:D :D Thanks for your comments on Maisie, she does take a lot of hard work but there are short cuts and lots of stuff you can use you just have to be quite methodical and have a routine to try and cut the work down
P looks good and not too difficult but youll need to work on the tail its the poo thats the problem not mud! I hope shes not such a messy cow as Maisie!

[Mehitabel]

Wow how interesting. I'd love to learn all about genetics when I leave high school. I thought that she would turn white when I saw her pic but I didn't actually know that ALL grays turn white.

Chev - what defines a gray? I'm just confused because does that mean that all pintos turn white all over? Or are the ones that turn white all over like the one that this thread is about and borne with the coloured bits already 'roaned'?

no, pintos don't all turn white. the grey gene affects the birth colour - so a horse can be born any colour, and then gradually go white. petal was born dark bay and is now white, her two foals were both born black and are greying out, P was obviously born splodgy. the grey gene sits on top of the normal colour the horse is and changes it over time.

so P was not necessarily born 'roaned' on the splodgy bits, she could have been born piebald or skewbald. some grey horses are born with the greying process already started - they often have white rings round the eyes, bt not all of them.

this is petal with her first foal - http://groups.msn.com/nrphotos/esspictures.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=158
and with her second, 2 years later (she is already lighter) - http://groups.msn.com/nrphotos/esspictures.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=164
and this is the two of them four years on, with the younger one just backed and her big brother taking us out on a hack - http://historicalfact.com/~es/pony%20pictures/denim_caboodle.jpg

so the foals dont look at all like they're going grey - they both started going steel grey aged 18 months, in their winter coat change as a yearling.

[chev]

A grey is simply a horse that carries the grey gene.

Foals that carry grey are rarely born grey (happens sometimes, but more common is foals that show no immediate sign of grey) - they have usually got more pigment in their coat than non-grey foals. So a bay destined to go grey will often be born with black points, whereas a bay destined to stay grey will have fawn coloured points and shed out black later.

Pintos will only go grey if they carry grey as well as tobiano or overo - they won't go grey just because they're pinto.

If neither parent is grey then you know the foal definietly won't be grey. :)

[¿M€®¥ñ™]

Why thank you - both of you. I understand better now.