Draft horse

[rather-b-riding]

I am interested in looking at a draft horse but I don't know much about them other than they are gentle giants. How are they to ride? I've been told by some they are too slow. Any opinions/advice???

Here is a little about the horse I plan on looking at...this was the ad I found online:

Belgian Draft Gelding Breed: Belgian
Date Foaled: UNK 1986 Gender: Gelding
Height: 16.0 hh Weight:
Color: Liver Chestnut Other Color
or Markings:
Temperament:
1=Very Calm...
Registered? No
For Sale: Yes Asking Price: $600 (US)
Horse Skills
or Potential: Draft
Husband-Safe Horse
Kid-Safe Family Horse
Pleasure Driving
Trail Riding - Outdoors

Notes: This is a very quiet and safe draft gelding. Safe for anyone to ride or drive. Goes sound and has a new coggins test. Will WTC.Sweet to handle. Loaded and hauled well and has been quiet in the barn. Good for whole family to ride. Big enough for Dad and quiet for kids.I took him from a dealer so he would not go to auction. Very sweet and easy to ride. We just got him this week, the quiet ones don't ever stay for long. He will take any style saddle and will go on a snaffle.

That's all I know. I hope to go see him this week sometime. Anything I should ask/look for? I've tried to research as much as I can about this breed the last few days but anything anyone can tell me that might be useful would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks in advance!
judy

[ShariN]

I would take what people write with a grain of salt. You would not believe how many people said their horses were well trained and super gentle.. but when I would go try them out...they had very little training and not as gentle as was stated.

Is good you are going to go see that one in person....that is the best way to horse shop.

Many Drafts including the smaller ones...tend to roll a lot at the walk..some are jaring to ones body. Just depends on the Draft.

Does this Draft have feathers? If he does, check for skin problems in those areas. Everything else you look for would be like when you check other breeds of horses out.

Also check around before you get one, to see if you can find a farrier that will even Trim a Draft. There are a lot of areas in the country where Farriers will not touch them,,,or charge double.

Happy shopping!

[rather-b-riding]

Thanks for your reply...didn't even think about the farrier...will ask about that. I think he's worth a look. I did wonder about the comfort of riding them and how bouncy they might be. He is big but not HUGE, so maybe he'll be a bit smoother.
Thanks!

[Sarah-B]

I have a draft horse, a Suffolk Punch X:

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c83/Saxon-Clydie/TCniceAugust2006.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c83/Saxon-Clydie/TCMe2-Oct06.jpg

He is lovely to ride, he has the most amazing trot, soooooo easy to sit to!! He would be no good if you wanted to go hooning about the countryside as he would rather not canter :rolleyes: , but that's just him. It's OK with me as I am a bit of a wuss anyway. He's built for comfort not speed!!

He doesn't cost any more to feed than my 14.3HH chap, as he is such a good-doer and his feet are the same price too. I now have an EP trim him as he is barefoot, but the farrier I had never charged me any more, although some do so phone around as I was quoted £140 per set!! :eek:

He has a wonderful gentle temperament and I personally would recommend drafts or draft x's to anyone, I *adore* them!!

ETA: Belgian Draft's are lovely!!

[rather-b-riding]

Wow Sarah, he is GORGEOUS!!! (drool) I wish I could figure out how to post the pic of the draft for sale...I'll give it a try..
I do like to canter but I don't have the need for it, I'm happy just trotting along. How about showing? Are you limited to certain shows with drafts?
You guys have given me lots of info to think about!
Thanks!

[rather-b-riding]

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/rather-b-riding/BusterBrown.jpg

[rather-b-riding]

Ohhh...I did it! there he is! He seems a bit underweight and needs a good grooming, but otherwise??? He looks like he has a beautiful long mane, but do you think his head is too large or is it the angle of the picture? He is an hour and a half away...worth the ride to check him out or not?
Critique please! You can be as critical as you want; He's not mine yet;)

[Bobbin]

Erm don't yell at me but I think he looks a little underweight, his hip bones are very prominent.

[rather-b-riding]

yes, that's what I though also...that he looks underweight. Other than that?

[Alfies-slave]

When I got my first Shire 20 years ago I was told this by an old horseman... 'forget the gentle giants rubbish, they are lethal machines' Its the best piece of advice I was ever given.

With heavy horses manners are the most important aspect. If you go to view one you must see that it has good manners before concidering it. If you are lax in their handling they can become total liabilities. Things that could be overlooked in a smaller horse are disasterous in a horse that weighs a ton. This is where the gentle giant myth comes from. In days gone by they were only ever handled by profesional horsemen who trained for years as stable lads before being allowed to handle the horses; the draft horse nutters ended up at the glue factory. Only the ones with nice temperaments were kept.

If they stand on your foot they will probably break it!

Don't want to put you off but there are a few conciderations.

You usualy have to get tack special order, and its more expensive.

If you can find a farrier who will shoe them it costs lots more than regular shoes. If a farrier is willing to shoe them, make sure he has experience of shoeing draft horses.

Worming and feed, infact prety much everything will cost twice as much as a regular light horse.

If you buy an enormous horse it will need a larger stable & trailer/lorry. Comercialy produced boxes are not designed for drafts so you will have to have one fitted out properly for your horse to be safe and comfortable.

Fencing also has to be able to withstand a one ton horse leaning/scrubbing on it. If you are intending to keep the horse at a boarding barn they might not be very keen on the idea.

They are lovely horse but you have to ask yourself if you NEED one to justify the extra expense and work

[bexj]

He's got a kind eye. Am I right thinking he's 20 years old? If so, I would get him very thoroughly checked over by a vet before thinking of buying him. I wonder why he ended up at the dealer, and why this owner is selling him so quickly after she bought him?

Best of luck - as the owner of a heavy cob, I love the larger breeds, and think they have a huge amount to offer

[rather-b-riding]

The owner takes in the occasional rescue, then resells. You are right on the money with age, he is 20!

You guys sure have given me lots to consider (I'm glad I posted and got such great replies) Things I wouldn't have thought of....Yes I will be boarding him elsewhere, I showed his picture to the YO who is not a huge fan of drafts, but she did not say she wouldn't board him. (better make sure of that before I bring him home!:p ) Now the present owner gave me the impression that he is not in need of a custom fit saddle:confused: I doubt that though! Or maybe it's because he is underweight at the moment!

[Alfies-slave]

Just seen how old he is. I wouldn't buy it expecting him to last much longer. 20 is a good age for a big horse. I have just had my 2 Clydesale mares shot, aged 19 & 20 on the grounds that they could no longer lie down or trot, their joints were worn out. They went downhill very quickly over he last 3 months. Its like if you buy a Great Dane dog. Animals that are bred unaturaly big don't live as long as animals that are a more natural size.

It is the joints that give out on big horses. They have to carry about their own massive weight & they are made out of the same stuff as a regular horse. They wear out faster!

They can also be a bit arthritic especialy in the back legs.

Look out for lumps and bumps like splints, ringbone etc.

[Pink's lady]

Alfie-slave's just said what I was about to say - 20yrs for a heavy draught is ancient and he'll not have much work left in him:( If he's not already knackered:(

He is also not just slightly under-weight but quite substantially under weight. He may have been staved in the past and slowly putting weight on but I suspect it's more to do with him age.

The big horses CAN be gentle giants but they can also be huge big thugs. We have a lovely young Ardennes (belgium heavy draught) in our field now who was gentle and laid back and quiet but is slowly turning into a horror. His owner is inexperienced and he's walking all over her. She won't accept help right now but will eventually have to - at nearly 17hh and well over a ton, he's not funny when he's rearing and pulling back:eek:

Now the present owner gave me the impression that he is not in need of a custom fit saddle

If you do go to see him, have a good look at his back - I suspect under that saddle he's going to have massive muscle wastage and a promiant spine:( This new draft we've got was broken and ridden in a medium width saddle and his poor back is a mess (saddle sores and everything). He's now starting to fill out and is already at a x-wide - he's going to end up xxxx-wide I supsct.

[Iron Maiden]

I'd take a good look at his hocks too. Heavier breeds seem to suffer from hock problems in my experience & the way he's standing in the pic just doesn't look quite right, almost a bit sickle hocked - might just be the pic of course. As the others have said, 20 is a ripe old age for any horse so I'd think long & hard about buying, the vets bills tend to pile up as the years do!

[Sarah-B]

He does look underweight and a llittle scruffy, but those things could be sorted out. If his price reflects his "shortcomings" and you (in your heart) really love the look of him then I would arrange a viewing.

Alfies-slave - I have to disagree with some of what you say, TC is bigger than any Shire I have met and I have not found any of the things in your post apply to us - maybe we are just lucky :rolleyes: ....

If they stand on your foot they will probably break it!

TC has trodden on my foot umpteen times and I've not broken it yet (touch wood)!!

You usualy have to get tack special order, and its more expensive.

TC has a regular X-full bridle and headcollar, his saddle is a Swain & Humphries Holistic which *was* expensive, but wasn't special order. Some rugs fit OK with a chest expander, but I *have* splashed out this winter and ordered him some made-to-measure. However, these were not expensive, £170 (total) for a lightweight, a middleweight and a neck cover.

If you can find a farrier who will shoe them it costs lots more than regular shoes. If a farrier is willing to shoe them, make sure he has experience of shoeing draft horses.

Although a couple farriers I spoke to wanted to charge more to shoe, equally as many didn't. Also, TC had been shod by a "heavy horse specialist" and the shoes he had on we *way* too heavy for him. They'd have been OK on a Suffolk doing heavy draft work but not on a happy-hacking Suffolk.
Also, heavy horses are usually well suited to barefoot and trimmers charge the same regardless of the foot size!!

Worming and feed, infact prety much everything will cost twice as much as a regular light horse.

Worming and supplements cost more as TC has to have a double dose, but feed is the same as my 14.3HH (if not cheaper) as TC is, like many draft horses an extremely good doer....

If you buy an enormous horse it will need a larger stable & trailer/lorry. Comercialy produced boxes are not designed for drafts so you will have to have one fitted out properly for your horse to be safe and comfortable.

This is true, TC won't fit in a trailer - has to be a lorry. He lives out 24/7 though so stable isn't an issue (the one I have is 16' x 12').

Fencing also has to be able to withstand a one ton horse leaning/scrubbing on it. If you are intending to keep the horse at a boarding barn they might not be very keen on the idea.

Never had any fencing issues, TC respects a line of electric tape even if it's off and never spoken to a YO that was phased by a draft.

Alfie-slave's just said what I was about to say - 20yrs for a heavy draught is ancient and he'll not have much work left in him:( If he's not already knackered:(

:eek: :eek: I am HORRIFIED to read this!!!!!! Is this really true? Does that mean TC has no chance of living into his late twenties like I hope?

[ShariN]

Sarah,
Yours might live longer because he is getting good care. He is quite a nice draft BTW..I love suffolks!


However the above one that is for sale...looks like he has led a very hard life. Ones like that...do not tend to live as long as they could. If he Vet checks out ok and all that...but I have a feeling he will not. It will cost a ton of money to get him fed up proper again.
Another thing to remember...is he might be gentle when you see him. However he is in poor condition,,,so he is not going to act his normal self.
I have done some rescues in the past. I would end up with "gentle" horses in need of help. But once they were properly fed and cared for....their temperament and past training issues show up. Took alot of work to re train them.
The shoeing of Drafts in the USA is a big issue. Unless you live where the Amish do...is almost impossible to find a shoer that will do them any more.

Another problem we have in the usa...is they are breeding Drafts hotter. You get an 18 hand draft as hot as any TB or Arab and there is going to be problems and dangerous. They want the fancy hitch horses...not the honest even tempered work horses of the past. Every thing seems to be about bling.:mad:
Personally I do not like what I am seeing but not much I can do about it.

Anyway...

I would go see him....but if you only have money for one possible riding horse...don't get him because you feel sorry for him.

[Pink's lady]

I am HORRIFIED to read this!!!!!! Is this really true? Does that mean TC has no chance of living into his late twenties like I hope?

Sadly, it seems to be the case:( 20yrs old is considered old for heavy horses, where as it's late middle age for most lighter horses. For all the shires and clysdales etc I've met, most very very arthritic and stiff by 20yrs old and past riding (although gentle pottering around the field can continue for years) - most start slowing down at 15yrs or so - an age where lighter horses are still eventing etc. They also tend to start to really drop weight and find it hard to keep condition.

I suspect it's probably got a lot to do with such big heavy horses being broken far too early:( - at 2yrs old they LOOK big and strong and therefore ready to work but in realitiy they should be left until at least 4yrs old. But just shear weight and size are major players.

I really hope TC proves me wrong....................

[Elfie]

Draft horses are lovely if they are well handled and have good manners, like any horse. But like someone else said, if they aren't, its worse than a smaller sized horse.

I know someone with a draft horse and while he's lovely, he is very bolshy and can forget his manners.

I've worked with drafts for many years and unfortunately, they don't tend to live as long as other breeds. They are also prone to arthritis because of the weight their joints have to bear, this is made even worse if they are overweight. 20 is a very good age.

However, they are good horses and I have showjumped and XC'd a 18hh shire horse X, great fun.

[Hero]

Well...some are some are not.:confused:
I school a little 14.2hh piebald cob at my stables ( where i work ) and he is a sensitive as a thoroughbred! I jump 1 and a half meters with him,:D and he loves it;) !
but then there is a 16.hh bay cob, and no matter what is..SLOW! so.. its depends

But cob cross thoroughbreds are nice. But I have an Irish draft cross thoroughbred called Boo:D

[Alfies-slave]

I have had shires and clydesdale for the last 20 years, its just my experience. Try and buy a 7.5" bit or an 8' rug and you will be stuck, unless you get them made or buy from a heavy horse specialist. To give you an idea a snaffle for a normal horse is about 10 pounds, a 7.5" one will cost 30 pounds. For other bits it is usualy 100 pounds plus to have them made. Only the more expensive makes of bit will do them special order in huge sizes.

I haven't found a rug maker who does 8' rugs, they have to be made.

They fit extra full headcollars and open bridles till they are about 4 then its on to bespoke from the harness makers. Can't complain too much here because a bespoke English bridle costs about the same as an off the peg Stubben!

If you know of anywhere I can buy things more cheaply in HUGE sizes I would LOVE to know!

[ShariN]

Draft blankets

http://www.sstack.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=9145&itemType=PRODUCT&RS=1&keyword=draft

[Eli]

I don't know if this will help, but I have found draft bits here:

http://stores.ebay.com/Thoroughbred-Express-Tack-Sales

I have also found them at another website, but I am still trying to get that one for you. Are they less expensive for you if you buy them in the U.S.?

Regards,
Eli

[Tatooed Lady]

As to sizing, we've got a Percheron that's almost 4, and is still growing and filling out. Right now, she fits in a full QH bar western saddle, no special size needed. Her bitted bridle is a draft size, but is on the smallest setting. She takes a 36" cinch, and is currently 17hh.
As far as farriers...there's a barefoot specialist that I found online that would've been willing to trim her for $35. Problem being our schedules didn't mesh, and I really feel that I need to be there during routine care to see how she's progressing. The farrier we DO use was raised Amish, but has decided to change directions...anyhow, he was raised around drafts, and knows what to make of them, and is very willing to trim her, although it costs me $50 per trim, as opposed to his "smaller breed" fee of $30. She gets trimmed about every 5-6 weeks, and is kept barefoot.
Feedwise, she is an easy keeper, and doesn't eat proportionally more than a smaller breed.
She gets about 1 1/2 tubes of wormer, since they're only good for about 1,250 pound horses, and she weighs closer to 1600 or so.
Manners? Well, we're working on some little "glitches". But she's young, and is doing her testing of my ability to be leader...
She's got this big, rolling walk that (to me) is hard to sit bareback. Under saddle, she's happy to walk and trot, (BIG, BOUNCY trot) and has, on occasion on the trails, loped a bit. "Too slow" is, to me, dependant upon how fast you want to go?? Other horses will canter/lope, and she'll pick up into a fast trot and keep up. She's NOT a speed machine, by any stretch...but she's also not NUTS, and is way more spook-proof than many horses I've had the chance to meet! She's had GREEN riders on her, and she's NOT a 'seasoned' horse.
And yes, she WILL need a taller trailer than the standard 6-6 1/2' height...but the lady that owns the yard where I board has an eventer that's 17.2hh, and he's NOT a draft, but requires a tall trailer!
Honestly, I LOVE my draft, but she's young and needs more time and training to be "perfect". If you look around a bit more, you could get lucky and find a younger guy/gal that fits your needs...

[clydesdalelover]

I was just reading alfi slaves post and I have a 17.3 clydesdale gelding whose tack was special order but only came to 450 for everything he fits into 7,3 rugs which are in te catolgues and he eats less hard feed than my throughbred! Not everything about them is more expensive.
Mine lives out as he is so massive and hairy he copes fine! = less cost
I found very good grazing and good quality hay = less hard feed = less cost
He has very hard feet so just has no shoes = £25 trim = less cost
During the winter he has a bib clip = less rugs = less costs

and i'll tell you one thing, he cost me less in a year than my throughbred
and he is definatly very happy!!
So dont worry about costs, if everyone was we would all have shetlands!!

[devonlass]

I always think it's lovely when people take an interest in the heavies,for the right person they really can make an ideal best friend!!

I would have to disagree to some extent with the whole 'they cost twice as much' way of thinking.
I have found the same as sarah-B,that it is usually possible to find things to fit etc.

I have a 16.3hh clydesdale mare.She is a 6.9-7.0 in rugs (although do have to use chest expanders sometimes,depending on the make of rug).She takes an x-full in bridles,headcollars,and they fit quite well apart from the nosebands on bridles they always come up too small,but that not the end of the world just takes a bit mixing and matching,and is not more expensive (in fact I have found the bigger sizes cheaper on places like e-bay as doesn't seem to be so much interest in them)
Saddles I'm not sure about as ride in a treeless,but I don't think it will be that difficult to fit a treed one to her.
She takes a 6" bit so that not hard to find.
She is on a high fat low starch diet,and doesn't cost as much to feed as my friends TB and warmblood types!! Plenty of oil,fibre based feed and 24/7 access to hay and *touch wood* is keeping the weight on fine.
She also lives out so stable is not an issue,although am building a 16ft x 12ft shelter and am hoping she will fit ok!!
She travels and fit's fine in a lorry,although must admit would not like to risk travelling her in a trailer.
My farrier made no fuss at all about trimming her and charges me no more than he does for my pony.

I would agree that she has feet like dinner plates and would think she would easily break my foot if she stood on them!!
Also would agree about the joint thing,I already give her glucosamine as think she may have the beginnings of arthritis (although vet doesn't agree and thinks I am being paranoid,he's probably right:o)

I find her a lovely and gentle soul,and the more she get's to know us the more her lovely nature is coming through.
She is the most comfy ride ever!! Lovely and smooth,a real armchair ride,not a speed demon though!! She can be a bit strong to ride,but that could just be her!!

I think the point is what type of draught,size etc that you go for.Can completely imagine for instance that an 18-19hh shire might be a completely different ball game and would probably cost more be difficult to fit etc (which is possibly more the kind alfies-slave is referring to??).But it is possible to get a more 'ordinary'sized draught,and not have to treat them much differently than any other larger type horse.

I have always liked the heavies,but never really thought about owning one,but have to say wouldn't be without my girl now:)

[Kerpug]

I can't see picture, can you post link again please, i'm dying to see.

I have a 15.1 Ardennais x and he doesn't cost me the earth. He's a good-doer so am always watching his weight. He has fantastic feet and i have him barefoot.

An ex-full bridle wouldn't go near his head so i got one made to measure at £115 which i thought was really good. Saddle i'm on look out for new one so will have to up date. He's in 6'9 rugs.

My problem has always been manners with him. He's known as the gentle giant now not because of height but cos of body size!! You have to be so firm as they know their weight and strength. I only wear steel toe-cap wellies and jodphur boots as he's been on my foot more times than i care to remember. Once it was bruised for 8 months but not broken!!:eek:

If he's underweight and docile now then i'd expect that to change pretty quick. Ardennais and belguim draft are quiet similar but are very kind animals and can still be docile if manners are instilled.
Pop picture back up so can have a look :D

[Tatooed Lady]

I don't know about Belgians outside the US, but here they're bred pretty HUGE. Like my 17hh Percheron looked like a LIGHT BREED standing next to a Belgian mare last summer...this girls head was HUGE, along with the rest of her body...she got spooked, bored, whatever and pushed through the hitching post rail, which was something like 4x4 or 6x6...and the Belgian gelding tried to go over the side of the roundpen during a workout, and caved in one of the panels....now, don't get me wrong, I'm NOT saying they're bad horses!!!! Just saying that even though ALL horses can have their "moments", the big ones "moments" can be a bit more awe inspiring and cost more to fix. ;)
I couldn't see putting riding tack on either one of them, simply because of their girth...but I'm sure that there ARE bridles and saddles in sizes to fit, but they'd cost more than smaller gear.
At the same time, there are drafts that are small or light enough (like my girl) to wear a regular sized saddle, even though she takes a larger headstall, which ran about $50....western, not english. ;)
And if they learn that they're big and stronger than you, you have to find creative ways to remind them that you can STILL be the herd leader...just like a pushy light breed. Surround yourself as much as possible with people that are really good with horses in general, drafts in particular, if you can. They'll be your best resource for staying safe and happy.
I've learned a LOT since July, and most of it I could've learned with a smaller horse, but I chose a draft....and I'm not sorry that I did. I have unique issues with her, but I tend to blame it on my inexperience in general and her youth, NOT so much her size. I wouldn't trade her for....a box of government hammers! ;)

[denise42]

In October I bought a 6yr old Belgian / Paint X and I LOVE him .
Super boy.
I am taking dressage lessons on him , we are learning this together as he is young yet .. ( I came from the paint / QH world so to me 6 was not young but in dressage training it is )
He stands 16.3 1/2 very up hill build.
I don't have a dressage saddle yet, but my Dale Chevez western reiner fits him just fine.
I had to get a 6 " snaffle bit and an oversized ( warmblood size ) halter and brow band for his bridle and that has been it for tack changes.
The picture is of my test ride on him, and I brought my western saddle, but my girth was a tad short so also had to get a new girth when I brought him home.

If you click on the thumbnail it will enlarge and you can get a look at him.

[soltydog]

Well I am really depressed now reading these posts. :(

My Lad is 16.2 shire cross Irish Draft, I have just come to the conclusion he is over 20 as galvines groove is well out to the bottom of his teeth.

Silly me thought we may have another 10 years together, he has been lame on an off of late and we have realised that he is worse on the wetter colder days. After reading the posts I am thinking maybe our riding days together are over, as his joints may be knackered.

Did not realise 20 was so old in the heavier breeds.

Please can you re-post pic I would love to see him too

Kim

[AengusOg]

One thing to be aware of with the heavy draught breeds is the angle of the shoulder.

It is very 'upright', and one consequence of that is that some breeds/individuals can have a very short 'choppy' stride in front. This is due to the fact that they can't extend to the same extent as a horse with a more sloping shoulder, such as a thoroughbred (which is the other extreme).

I can see why you would like the draught breeds, I do too, but it's horses for courses; as their name suggests they were bred to pull ploughs/ heavy farm carts/timber, etc.. Far from ideal for riding, as they do have their limitations.