Sidesaddle?

[equestria]

Hey y'all, I've been wanting to try sidesaddle for awhile now, anyone got any good ideas where to go, what you need to know, etc?

[skewpie]

I had some brilliant lessons from Tina Layton at her yard near Stanstead,she went thru types of horse saddle history etc then we rode different horses

[Wally]

You need to find an instructor with a school master and a good working knowlege of the subject.

In short never use a black side saddle, as they were never made in black. Only cheap, badly made and designed side saddles are made in black.

[Herbie's mummy]

I started on my own horse....who had never even had a side saddle on his back, he was fab!
My saddle was veryyyyy old and she brought a load for him to try one and we found one which fitted. Was SO fun. Hopfully picking it up again with my other one, and if he takes to it, shall be compeating him:D

[Wally]

What make was the one you got Herbie's Mummy?

You can tell by looking at the stirrup bar, they all had patented quick release fittings.

Which classes are you hoping to take him into?

Remember the the saddle is not stuffed level like an ordinary saddle, it needs a specialist fitter to fit and re flock a side saddle.

[eml]

I don't know where you are but Pittern Hill in Warwickshire are great.

Did a few lessons and got as far as baby jumps but decided it really wasn't for me.

[Wally]

Didn't you fancy this then eml? can't think why. :rolleyes: ;) ;) :D

[Wally]

Had kina jumped I dare say I'd have been up there emulating that photo!
as it was this is as far as we got up to as well as puppy attachment and mad flat out gallops on Hákon.

[Herbie's mummy]

What make was the one you got Herbie's Mummy?

You can tell by looking at the stirrup bar, they all had patented quick release fittings.

Which classes are you hoping to take him into?

Remember the the saddle is not stuffed level like an ordinary saddle, it needs a specialist fitter to fit and re flock a side saddle.

No idea but it was quality as they were from the Side saddle asoasion sp LOL
Yup i know you need a special person who knows all about them etc.
Proberly WH. And a couple of showing classes.:) I have not even tried SS on him yet but after xmas we will soon see if he likes it :D x x x

[Laura+Phantom]

Saphy did tons of side saddle with her owner, she was 3rd in the national champs, only because she had a synthetic saddle so was marked down. She is stiff in her right shoulder though now (and I don't do it)

[Laura+Phantom]

was meant to attach this too..

[eml]

No way Wally...I think X pole of 18" was scary enough...too well entrenched in use of knees as a pivot....yes everyone I know it is wrong...it was right 40 years ago!

Laura where can you get synthetic side saddles I would love to have one just to play with?

[Herbie's mummy]

yup they actully sell sythetic side saddles now-how cool is that?

[Wally]

I have yet to find a synthetic one. Thorowgood played with them for a while, but then they stopped making them. I have asked them if they'd make me a one off if they had any trees and stuff left, but they wouldn't.

[jinglejoys]

No way Wally...I think X pole of 18" was scary enough...too well entrenched in use of knees as a pivot....yes everyone I know it is wrong...it was right 40 years ago!

Laura where can you get synthetic side saddles I would love to have one just to play with?

Oh dear have they changed jumping too is that why no one can jump without Kneerolls? What am I going to have to re learn now?

[Porsche]

"In short never use a black side saddle, as they were never made in black. Only cheap, badly made and designed side saddles are made in black."

Hey, this is a little bit of a sweeping generalisation. Mine is black and although needed to be altered is now a great fit for my 15.2 especially as a starter saddle for the discipline we are not all able to free up £3000 when starting out.

[chickflick1066]

Laura - just curious, did she compete at Addington Side Saddle comp? My YM and my RI came 4th and 1st in their SS classes :)

[Wally]

It is not a wide sweeping generalisation.

No well desingend side saddle will come in black. Not unless there is an Engilsh, French or German maker's name on it.

Most black side saddles made now are made in the East. They are made of inferior leather, dreadful design and will wreck you and your horse's backs.

I don't know anyone who asks a side saddler to make a bespoke side saddle in black, as it will wipe almost all its value out in one blow in the resale market. Side saddles were made in predominantly brown leather. No self respecting side saddler will make on in black as he wouold have trouble re selling a black one.

[old_woman]

Porsche, there is no need at all to pay three thousand pounds for a side-saddle when just starting out! Suggesting that is simply calculated to put people off from even trying. The SSA used to ( don't know if they still do ) hire out suitable sidesaddles; there is a restored Champion and Wilton on Ebay ATM for 995, and many, many are for sale from reputable saddlers for a little more than a thousand pounds. A good second hand sidesaddle will not lose its value if well cared for so can always be sold on. More than you can say for a thousand-pound car!

I totally agree with what Wally says about sidesaddles and their provenance - except that I would expand their acceptable origins a little from merely English, French and German. The Americans made (and still make!) some excellent sidesaddles and so do our friends down under. There was a woman called Wendy something-or-other who made sidesaddles in Australia until fairly recently, at least. And Karl Neidersuss makes new beauties in Austria, lightweight, too, on a carbon-fibre tree.

I expect, though, that Wally is referring to these obnoxious objects when she condemns black sidesaddles. Less than two hundred pounds for one at the moment? Hahahahaha until you're in hospital with a broken back from a fall ....
Have a look for item # 320065536469 in e-bay.
I wonder how many people will fall for it ...

[Wally]

They have some very good Australian makers now. Not sure how many Ozzy and US makers there were between the wars making good side saddles.
But they certainly do have some good makers now.

[GarnetFox]

I've looked at that side saddle on eBay. Old Woman (love the name!) and Wally, could you expain what's wrong with it please? New Rider has helped me to understand what a bad normal saddle looks like, but I'm afraid I am baffled when it comes to side saddles. :o Thanks!

[Daffy Dilly]

I think most of it is the same as when looking at a normal saddle. What I pick up looking at the photos, is that;
- the flocking is uneven, under the flaps and under the saddle
- the quality of leather looks to be very poor from the photographs
- why on earth would you want the panels on the underside of your saddle, the ones that touch the horse, to be bumpy? :confused:
- some of the stitching leaves a bit to be desired (wonky - who knows what else is up)
- the top leg rest (sssh ;)) is uneven on the inside where your leg would touch?
- The flaps look very stiff and sticky-outy - were they even cut to the right shape?
- the whole thing looks very uncomfortable

And it's black, which we've established is 99% of the time, not a good thing.

[Wally]

Whare can I start and how much will you understand?

A side saddle is a specialist fitting job. An astride fitter cannot and should not fit a side saddle to a horse and rider.

On that saddle the point of the tree, for some reason, is set far behind the panel. the bellies are too thick and unbalanced and badly made, the gullet is too wide and the panels too narrow, the whole panel is leather and should be serge with an overlay of linen.

The leaping and fixed head do not look comfy or of much use. The leaping head must be on a swivel, on a reverse thread. The stirrup bar is of a kind where you should only use a side saddle safety iron which MUST be supplied with the saddle. There is no patent quick release mechanism fitted. I cannot stress too strongly that unless you have a patented quick release bar and iron to match you must have a safety stirrup specially designed for side saddle. To use anything other with this saddle is so, so dangerous.

[old_woman]

Or to condense what Wally said into a few words, the thing is a death-trap waiting to be sprung.

Being old and having seen a lot, I am not one to support all the actions of the Health and Safety executive and other busybodies of that type. However I do believe this is the sort of item that SHOULD be brought to their attention by a suitably-qualified person as it is little more than a terrible accident waiting to happen.

[Horsewoman]

[QUOTE=Wally;1102076]What make was the one you got Herbie's Mummy?

You can tell by looking at the stirrup bar, they all had patented quick release fittings.QUOTE]

Usually, but not always. It may have been replaced (for example if you have a Owen saddle and the stirrup leather went missing you would have to change the whole shebang as the two parts were made to match each other). With a modern replacement of brand new for old you are likely to see a mayhew type fitting as these are the most commonly available at the moment. Otherwise a spare fitting from a canibalised saddle may have been used.

Even in their hay-day it was quite common for one maker to send round to another for parts if they ran short or a customer particularly asked for, say, a C&W saddle with an Owen fitting. We have come across a Mayhew saddle with a missing leaping head. It turned out to have been made with a Champion and Wilton fitting for the leaping head which was a god-send as it's virtually impossible to replace a missing or damaged Mayhew leaping head, unless the client can afford a complete renovation, as the screw fitting and the socket were individually made. In this case we suggested the owner should approach Roger Philpott, a side saddle teacher in Warwickshire, who has a huge stock of side saddle bits and pieces and he came up trumps.

I didn't expect to see side saddle on this message board!

[Horsewoman]

I have yet to find a synthetic one. Thorowgood played with them for a while, but then they stopped making them. I have asked them if they'd make me a one off if they had any trees and stuff left, but they wouldn't.

Probably the construction was so specialised and expensive that they couldn't make them down to price which is part of the point of synthetics. (Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against synthetics as they are excellent in their place)

[Horsewoman]

"In short never use a black side saddle, as they were never made in black. Only cheap, badly made and designed side saddles are made in black."

Hey, this is a little bit of a sweeping generalisation. Mine is black and although needed to be altered is now a great fit for my 15.2 especially as a starter saddle for the discipline we are not all able to free up £3000 when starting out.
SSA specify brown tack for competition under their rules(which means most side saddle classes whether in specific SSA shows or in other shows. Side saddles are so expensive that most people would have to make do with one for both "best" and for everyday, so brown is best.

Wally is right up to a point. There are a lot of downright dangerous side saddles on the market - often made in China or Pakistan on astride saddle trees - and a lot of them are black. I think someone has already mentioned seeing one with a roller bar stirrup leather fitting. If your horse came down and you were using one of those even with a so-called safety stirrup you might not be able to get out of the way and your horse could roll on you and kill or seriously maim you. This scenario, common in the Victorian period, is the reason that, even today, side saddles are believed to be dangerous although, in fact, your seat is more secure than astride and the "fail-safe" stirrup fitting takes away a lot of the perceived danger if you do fall.

There were occasionally antique side saddles made in other colours to special order. I've seen a burgundy coloured one with a beautifully embroidered and quilted safe and a grey one made (in India under the Raj for a wealthy Memsahib) from elephant leather. However, black is not common in older side saddles.

[Horsewoman]

I've been and had a look on Ebay at the black saddles that are supposed to be German - In my Eye! (to use a very vulgar expression). I can only reiterate what has already been said. DON'T! They are based on a very old style of side saddle - narrow pommels, roller bar, etc., looks as thought the makers have copied them from a late 19th century version and could be very dangerous. I'm also certain as I can be that they are built on an astride saddle tree.

Sadly, someone has already bought one of them.

I am intending to sign up to Ebay so I can send a question to the seller. That should be fun!

[Wally]

Ohh, what do you want to ask? I am a member PM me and we can get together, I too am appalled at the designs and build quality of these "German" saddles.

[Horsewoman]

Ohh, what do you want to ask? I am a member PM me and we can get together, I too am appalled at the designs and build quality of these "German" saddles.

Haven't worked out a question as I've been trying to log on with Ebay. I've discovered that if you're on Yahoo or Hotmail - I'm on the latter - Ebay won't let you play with it. You need a paid for connection (Mutter, grumble, moan)and I'm having to use the library terminal at the moment as I have workmen and women rampaging round my house at the mo.

[Wally]

Have you looked at the photo of the underside, the panels are out by about a mile!

[Porsche]

Thank you for these posts as it gives me a lot more to look at. My saddle was fitted by a local "Saddler" but, I have been prompted by your posts to have a sidesaddle friend look, who has said that mine will need to be altered "CONSIDERABLY" (Polite version) otherwise both my horse and I will end up with a bad backs, as the is insufficient stuffing on the near side. Time to revert to the experts me thinks. Can anyone reccomend a sidesaddle saddler please?

[old_woman]

I've been and had a look on Ebay at the black saddles that are supposed to be German - In my Eye! (to use a very vulgar expression).

Sadly, someone has already bought one of them.

I am intending to sign up to Ebay so I can send a question to the seller. That should be fun!

And at least one of the purchasers now appears to have one for sale ... and the original seller now has "Spanish" sidesaddles as well as "German" sidesaddles. Are we to suppose that the former will fit Iberians and the latter will fit Hanoverians, Trakehners etc?

Oh, and has anyone seen Hilasons Western sidesaddle? The rear view of it shows a seat that is sloping to the left like a bloomin' ski slope! Wheeeeeee!

[Horsewoman]

Thank you for these posts as it gives me a lot more to look at. My saddle was fitted by a local "Saddler" but, I have been prompted by your posts to have a sidesaddle friend look, who has said that mine will need to be altered "CONSIDERABLY" (Polite version) otherwise both my horse and I will end up with a bad backs, as the is insufficient stuffing on the near side. Time to revert to the experts me thinks. Can anyone reccomend a sidesaddle saddler please?
I have recently had a doe-skin seat replaced by John Woolley of Staffordshire. He is very slow but the workmanship is beautiful. Whilst it was expensive in saddlery terms I was pleased with the final cost as another saddler had quoted 200 quid more (Mr W charged me #400.00) It pays to know what you are asking for and to get a few quotes.

Rob Jenkins of Malvern is also very good but difficult to pin down to a home visit if you live at any distance and Roger Philpott at Pittern Hill uses and recommends Laura Dempsey for his side saddle work.

[Horsewoman]

And at least one of the purchasers now appears to have one for sale ... and the original seller now has "Spanish" sidesaddles as well as "German" sidesaddles. Are we to suppose that the former will fit Iberians and the latter will fit Hanoverians, Trakehners etc?

Oh, and has anyone seen Hilasons Western sidesaddle? The rear view of it shows a seat that is sloping to the left like a bloomin' ski slope! Wheeeeeee!


I haven't ridden on a western saddle but Rosamund Owen in her book on side saddle says that they are difficult because (at least, the older ones) are built in such a way that the rider sits at an angle - facing to the left of the horses head instead of between its ears (assuming it's a nearside saddle). Perhaps an American rider can comment on this.

[Midori]

Just bumping this thread up as I may be asking questions later!

cheers, midori

[Virago]

I had some brilliant lessons from Tina Layton at her yard near Stanstead,she went thru types of horse saddle history etc then we rode different horses

This is where I ride - Contessa Riding Stables, hear Ware in Hertfordshire - and they do regular side saddle introduction days (details are put on their webby at www.contessa-riding.co.uk). I've done a couple and they are fascinating. I have got as far as walk and trot but no cantering or jumping SS just yet! ;)

[laura jeanne]

Sorry to be slightly ot, but can you do rising trot in a side saddle?? (I think not!)

[Midori]

Hi laura jeanne,

It's not the easiest thing to do on a sidesaddle, but it can be done. Side saddle Dressage tests include rising trot.

On my first lesson with Betty Skelton, I was stirrupless, and cantering within 5 minutes! I was amazed how much more comfortable I was and how safe I felt.

Cheers, Midori

[rtk]

I heard about the cheap black saddles on ebay, dont worry I've just arranged to lease one from a proper fitter.

Just wondered about these though, if we decide we like it :D

Says they are made to measure in Walsall, anyone tried them

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=380029713367&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=025

[Henrietta1]

I heard about the cheap black saddles on ebay, dont worry I've just arranged to lease one from a proper fitter.

Just wondered about these though, if we decide we like it :D

Says they are made to measure in Walsall, anyone tried them

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=380029713367&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=025

New to me but the wording of the ad makes them sound competant. It might be worth printing it off and talking to Roger Philpot at Pittern Hill or someone similar.