Sliding Halt

[Spotty_Pony]

Can somebody help my pony and I do this please? I lean back and put all of my weight in to the saddle but nothing happens...

Please help!

Thanks,
SP

[cvb]

we don't tend to have many surfaces that are ok for sliding stops in the UK.

But you don't comment on what your normal halt, and back up, are like ? And that might help someone who *does* have the chance to play with this stuff.

[Jessey]

I would suggest that you need to start working at a walk, getting your normal cues as light as you can and introduce the weight aids and the whoa vioce command, sometimes at this stage it is useful to use a barrier of some kind (only at walk) and ride the horse to the barrier a couple of time and give your aids just before you reach it, then when the horse stops really make a big fuss because they did it right - don't do that too much though. Also if when you stop (anytime) ask your pony to back up a couple of steps, this helps them engage the bum more for a really good stop :D
You will also need to do some ground work and really get the voice commands 'programmed' in.
Once you can get it 100% at walk you can start asking occasionally from trot and so on.
To perform the stop your horse has to be working with his bum engaged to be able to tuck it down to 'sit' into the stop :D
Don't spend a whole session working on your stops, they get very boring fast but focus on it for short periods within a schooling session.

And CVB is right, there are very few surfaces in the UK suitable for sliding stops so be very careful, doing it on a bad surface could seriously hurt your pony, to deep ground gives to much stop and can wrench the legs or slippery shallow ground and they can slip and damage themselves, Its such a pain :o

J x

[Bronya]

Just a question, but surely the sliding stop was something developed whilst working cattle - it's not just an arena move, is it? If so, I know it'd muck up the grass, but on a good grass surface, would it be possible?

[Harry Hobbes]

Just a question, but surely the sliding stop was something developed whilst working cattle - it's not just an arena move, is it? Yes, the sliding stop is only a competition movement; it has no practical application working livestock. Running a horse at the speed necessary for a sliding stop, and then performing the stop in the presence of cattle would only serve to panic the cows and scatter them. The Cow Boss would take great exception to any hand that did that.

Working cattle requires subtle finesse, not explosive maneuvers. We do want the horse to "stop on a dime" and be faster than the cow in stopping and turning (as in Cutting); any amount of slide would prevent the horse from being faster than the cow.

In addition, the sliding stop requires specific training and special rear shoes (i.e., "sliders") that are totally inappropriate (and hazardous) on a working cow horse.

Best regards,
Harry

[Shadowlark]

It's the ropers that stated it, because if the horse slammed the breaks on at the right moment and hauled back they could flip the cow and if the cowboy was on his toes he could get there before the cow got up and rope it for branding.

Not an appealing thought even tho I have seen it done many many many times..

Oviously, the manuver is modified for reining to add some pizzaz and omph to the performance.

Anyway. Slidding stop requires loads of muscle tone, balance and a horse to be LIGHT on the forehand they should make a roll back look like a cake walk and should be able to jamm it in reverse with barely a thought. They should also be sopping with some drop to thier hind before you even ask for a slide..

My horses can perform a a modified ass drop stop on a dime on any surface - despite not having slidders on. I would NOT expect them to slide on anything except loose dirt/sawdust.

This is a complicated manouver to teach properly, you can easily injure your horse doing it wrong. THis is also a "High school" manouver for a horse and they should be mentaly and physicaly fit enough to do it.

[Bronya]

So the original would be more like the gallop-jump-stop (often with slightly spread legs) that the average horse can do when they see something scary in front of them? Are there any of the other reining manouvers that are just for competition?

[Shadowlark]

Yeah, pretty much a stop with a big ass dropping "SCREECHHH" A good horse will keep the line taut for you too. Western horses are frequently asked to think for themselves and just get on with thier jobs, without the fuss and bother.

Well the spins of course is for show no cow is going to run around and around and around and around you ;) (I say that what do you BET one does it to me tomorow???)

Both however show tremendous control, the horse is asked to go from high octane to dead stop and calm in a heart beat.

Roll backs are dead practical esp when working cattle, A good roll back is worth it's weight in gold to me! The rest is just rate of speed and pace with minial interferece on the riders part.

[cvb]

And CVB is right, there are very few surfaces in the UK suitable for sliding stops so be very careful, doing it on a bad surface could seriously hurt your pony, to deep ground gives to much stop and can wrench the legs or slippery shallow ground and they can slip and damage themselves, Its such a pain :o

J x

Jessey, I was just excusing my ignorance :cool: The original poster is not in UK.

My understanding is that the sliding stop builds from a halt and rein back, so the horse starts to shift the weight and stop faster. But I don't have the horse or the surface to work on it, so thats as far as I get ! But I figure if you don't have a good halt, you're not going to have a good sliding halt. And if you don't have a decent reinback, the horse is probably not used to moving its weight around.

The "good halt" I would want away from the wall or a corner.

[qhlady]

Hi all, quick note from the one that butts in... sliding stops in the UK are a bit of a joke... but there are several plans in motion for good reining surfaces on top of those we already have.

For the new slider wannabes though, a few words of caution... sliding plates are specialist shoes, you CAN'T hack out in them. You MUST NOT slide on grass in them... your horse could flip. You need a farrier that knows what they are... and THAT is not easy to find in the UK, I obviously have no clue about Aus... but feet and horse can be wrecked by badly fitted plates.

Reining competition horse are not hacked out, they are not worked with cattle...they are arena bound, or they have normal shoes in between times, but again, over shoeing can wreck feet too... so it's more likely they keep plates and don't go out to play.

If you want the awesome big stops, your horse needs the conformation. A slightly cow hocked horse will do the splits as he slides and he will hurt himself eventually... the ligaments weren't made for that. The QH has a much more developed stifle then any other breed... this is also vital for the real big stop, as again, it stabilises the leg. You can build any horses stifle with LOTS of backing, and I mean like build up to half an hour a day, start in soft shallow going, build up to deeper, in hand is best to start, then when they and you can keep them straight, you can do it on board. It doesn't need to be a fast reining back up... just steady, correct and straight. Putting all your weight down on the back of the saddle "toes to shoulder" deal will really only teach your horse to hollow... you wont need the safety seat type stop till your moving fast... start slow, lift your weight a little and allow your horse to round up under you... you'll feel it when they do, then you know they have their butts under, and the will be starting to strengthen all the needed muscles. As mentioned, get the "whoa" in there... whoa means STOP. not in a stride, or when we feel like it, or a little crooked, shuffle shuffle.... it means STOP NOW. No ifs ands or buts and that again, start from the ground. Then when it is perfect on the ground, get on and walk, then trot, then lope. when it is perfect at all three gaits, then get your roll back going. Just say whoa, get a step or two of back up, when your horse is stopping straight, and backing straight, then and only then open the side you want to turn to and swing them over their hip. work against a rail is easiest for keeping it neat and tight. and remember, slow and correct is better then fast flashy.... and a mess. The speed will come, later. When your horse is able to get his butt down, and he is fitter, you will feel the stop coming, a good stopper will start to offer that in walk, once you get the whoa sorted... you'll feel it. When your ready for the bigger challenges, thats when it really helps to have a HIGH, so they dont jump it, rail, or better, a solid wall. Work them to that to really get the stop, but you have to be brave... if you dont ride to the wall like your going through it, you'll never get those mega stops... and you better hope your whoa is working!

Ta ra... more meddling later! :)

[Styric]

Reining competition horse are not hacked out, they are not worked with cattle...they are arena bound, or they have normal shoes in between times, but again, over shoeing can wreck feet too... so it's more likely they keep plates and don't go out to play.



I ride (English) in a Reining barn.. and she's right. Those horses don't trail ride, work cattle or do anything else unless they're out for the season or have their shoes changed. They are very valuable show horses, through and through. They are worked in the arena with correct footing, and blanketed to high heaven to keep their coats nice for winter shows.

In fact, the English riders do more trail riding than any of the Western riders.

Slides are also kept for the advanced riders, you don't mess with them or the coach will eat you for supper as you can do serious damage to yourself and the horse.

[Shadowlark]

Differeing schools of thought on the subject :)

We don't put our slidders on our horses until a week or so before competition otherwise they are kept barefooted. we have a SPECIFIC farrierer do them, if he isn't available we pull out - and we remove them on the monday. (one set lasts me a LOOONG time) they can be a royal PITA and horses can get into trouble wearing them.

We do hack out all the time with our reining horses we take them up into the mountains to keep good strong legs. My coach and I participate in Cattle penning quite a bit, I barrel race/pole bend my reining horses it keeps them sharp and happy. Al Dunning advocates hacking them out on trail as much as you possibly can to keep thier minds and bodies fit! Bob Avila uses Preacher to do anything from teaching riding lessons, ponying other horses he has even been known to rope off of him for fun :D

There is a difference tho.. and reiners will admit it if you poke and prode enough.. there are the Futurity reining horses.. and then there are your "keepers" and you don't raise train or deal with them the same. YOur keepers are brought on slow, don't see competiton until 6 or 7 they tend to be fit strong and last a LONG time. The Futurity horses are brought on hard and fast, compete really young and are usually sold off as soon as they are worth some money. I don't like FUturity, I don't like the mindset or really.. anything about it.. so my horses are all raised and kept as "keepers" same with my coach.

[qhlady]

I like the sound of that... I think show horses should be hacked out... heck I have a halter horse, 10 times grand champion by the time she was four in open and Am AQHA.... and I ride her, arena and trail, and I show her in ridden classes - with success, and I love the fact I have a real American QH... you know "the most versatile breed in the world"... wish more show folk felt the same... for the sake of their animals. :)

[Shadowlark]

HERE HERE!!
I was showing a Morgan - renowned for versatility :) and he proved it every chance he got! he loved to do small jumpers courses also thought it was a riot ;)

[Styric]

These are futurity reiners mostly. :(

[ImaLittleBoston]

I read a book by al dunning, and it talked about walking your horse, and working at whoa, and then jogging them into a corner of the arena, making them have to stop faster, and then working up the pace, They need to be really powerful in the hind quarters though for that , dont they?

[Wally]

It's not something I'd be teaching my horse until he was mega, mega balanced and trained.

[levi1739]

I was "fencing" MyMare one day, practicing stopping with my seat. She "dropped that butt" and slid about 2 feet. It was one of those moments when I realized that "she knew more than me". I don't get it consistantly, ahhh but sometimes. :D I like to "slide down hills" when we ride. There's one short hill on our farm where her rear feet always slide for a few feet. It's a cool feeling, rather addictive eh.

My farrier and I were talking about "plates" recently. He was telling me about "trimming" them so the rear feet "splay" and travel to the outside of the front feet. Must be a lot that goes into those "show" reiners feet. Much more than just nailing them on it seems.

One thing for sure, reining/cowhorses sure do have "whoa". What an atheletic move, slide to a stop and roll back. "Keep your eye on that cow".

Ahhh, forgive me, dreaming again. :o


Have fun, be safe

Jack

[qhlady]

Hi ImaLittleBoston...I am no reining expert that’s for sure, but I have a little mantra that helps me in all my training, whether on the ground, on a jumper, or even with my halter horses... some trainer way wiser than me said it once upon a time, and I am afraid I can't remember who, but somebody here will I hope....

"An Amateur practices til they get it right, A Professional practices til they can't get it wrong"

I think that it is something to bear in mind with any of the reining moves… they are learned almost in an order that is meant to help the horse… ie you don’t start with high speed spins, you start with moving away from the leg/seat/rein… then your on to turns on the forehand/haunches… as you put it together, your horse is learning to move one bit at a time, and you learn how to block the movement of the other bits… hey presto, your starting to spin…stopping is the same. You wouldn’t want to run a horse with no “whoa” at a fence, or he may show you he’d make a real good hunter/jumper! So you start at walk. When you are getting a sharp stop from voice and seat alone, 1st time EVERY time, (and then add a few days)… THEN you can trot…. And so on!

Break everything down to the smallest movement, that single step in the right direction and you won’t go wrong. It’s much easier to go back a step or two if your horse gets upset, or confused, and you won’t have to undo weeks of work in the meantime.

Have fun, whatever you do!

[ImaLittleBoston]

Levi, Fencing is good fun isnt it? I do it with sassy sometimes, I lovee it!

[mommadog1956]

i've never had any experience with a reining/cow horse before. my mare has been down at a trainers for about 5 weeks now. i went down there the other nite to see her and groom her. the trainer came out and said "are you ready to ride her?" (no i wasn't) i said sure, i guess so.

i rode her around the round pen for a spell and then took her out into the field. i went to stop her and guess what happened???

she did a sliding stop!!!!! that butt came down and i about went off her backside. i did not expect it at all.

my trainer is primarily a roper so he has been working her some in an indoor arena, working with cattle. this is mostly to get her use to different scenerios and de-sensitize her to many things. one of her major problems is standing still. she doesn't like it! she will snort, paw, and move around when she is tied up. so he takes her there and ties her up in the back where she can see the other horses but can't get to them (she's also very herd bound), BUT, he does ride her out with the calves, working her. this is a good thing as we will have calves for her to work with.
she is getting lots of different kinds of training with him. trail riding, barrels, poles, pleasure, and calf work. this is because i do lots of different kinds of riding.

be prepared for that sudden stop if you do train your horse for sliding stops. it will blow your mind the first time they do it. LOL

[cvb]

its kind of not funny, but I had to "detune" my western mare's halts a bit for dressage as I was getting comments about it being abrupt :(

She wasn't even sliding - just responding to the aids and halting ! Of course I have had to adjust as with english trained horses I've always had to prepare for halt about 3-4 strides out, to get it where I want it. But with her if I prepare that far out, we get it the next stride and miss the spot :p

[Spotty_Pony]

Thanks guys