Saddle fitters

[Laura+Phantom]

I'm trying to sell Phantom's old saddle, which I had made to measure from a local saddlers (won't mention who). Well he is a 14.1hh New Forest, and at the time, he was quite slim, and they made me a narrow to medium with dropped panels. Sorry, I was naive at the time, but what native pony on the planet needs a narrow to medium?? Anyway that was a year ago, it clearly will never fit him, it wasn't too bad at the time, but was high off his withers. I assumed it would bed down, but it didn't.

Bear in mind I paid £530 for this, which isn't the best quality either IMO, I e-mailed her to ask what she would buy it back for, as i've only used it about 10 times max and looked after it, and I am now going treeless as he is so wide and very sensitive to treed saddles.

Parts of her reply:
"Your saddle will have to be very cheap, as
most people seem to want to buy new, my new ones being so reasonable." :eek:

"I'm quite surprised that you are using a treeless saddle
with a pony that was very narrow, what's stopping it bearing down on his
withers? The idea of the dropped panel is to keep the weight from being on
them, but there we go, I hope he's comfortable !!!! "

How rude :mad: This lady also told me at the time I should not have a pony, I should have a horse, as I am an adult, and that Phantom "looks like a hereford cow". I don't care if she reads this, I am so mad, to imply that I would put something on Phantom's back that didn't fit, and she has clearly ripped me off big time. No one wants to buy the thing!

Phantom when is was fitted:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v115/LAUZ45/Phantom/phantomatsandylane.jpg

Phantom this summer, albeit overweight:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v115/LAUZ45/Phantom/phantomgwennapshow.jpg

I'm not going crazy, this is out of order right? And poor saddle fitting? What is with this old school approach to treeless saddles, certain older people seem to think they are ridiculous!

[Herbie's mummy]

*Puts two fingers up at the saddler*
How bloody rude!!!
350 pounds is VERY cheap for a made to measure saddle, so as you say would never but good quality etc.
How dare she insult you both like that?!

[Laura+Phantom]

No it was £530! And it's still not supple :eek:

[Herbie's mummy]

SORRY! i read 350....ooppss! LOL
well at 530 you would expect it to be decent!

[lor]

I think your pony is beautiful and she is the hereford cow!, i had a saddler make a saddle for me and my pony. He was very nice (slimy infact) at the time of taking measurments etc. When i tried the saddle, it slid straight up her neck:mad: When i said i didnt want it he said "you are underhorsed, that is the problem". (adult riding pony anti) I then tried a saddle from the Native Pony Saddle Co. It stayed in place with a loosish girth. Most decent saddlers will acknowledge that there is a place if not need for treeless saddles, where the horse/pony is difficult to fit a treed saddle to, or where it is simply the horse or rider preference. My pony is getting wider as she matures and i've tried a freeform (still undecided) and aiming to try a pheonix in new year. Good luck:)

[Alfies-slave]

Made to measure saddles are made to fit the horse, as the fitter finds it on the day. They don't make or fit them for horses to grow in to. If they did, then the saddle would not fit the horse at the time it was is made.

So, your saddle fitter will have fitted the saddle to the horse whilst it was in its thin state. You say it was a reasonably good fit at the time of fitting. Yes, flocked saddles do bed down. At the time the saddle was bedding down, chances are your pony was filling out and the saddle ceaced to fit him after about the first 6 weeks. Some horses change shape so much throughout the year that they require 3 or more saddles depending upon their work, weight and fitness.

In hindsight it is better to wait until your pony has reached a desirable, consistant weight before ordering a made to measure saddle. Even then, the saddle will need re-fitting and re-flocking every 6 months or so as the horse changes shape.

The saddle fitter was called to do a job, which she did. If you felt the saddle did not fit upon delivery, you should have raised the issue with her then.

There are good and bad saddle fitters/makers as there is good and bad in every profesion. My sister is a saddle fitter/maker and has had endless difficulty in her area. Sometimes people are so used to saddles that don't fit (they think they do) that they regard a correctly fitting saddle 'looking wrong'

The woman was wrong to be rude, this is unprofesional. It was very nice of her to offer to buy the saddle back at all.
She is right about treeless saddles and high witherd narrow horses, despite the hype, treeless saddles don't suit all horses and the fit of them is just as important as the fit of a traditional saddle. There was a woman who owned a trekking centre who had to shut down this summer at the height of trade. She had gone treeless at the start of the season and by the summer holidays ALL 15 of her horses were off with bad backs.

I have had great sucess selling strange fittings of saddle on eBay, often for much more than I paid for them. Sometimes I have ended up with saddles that I would never have been able to sell localy and found that people from all over the country go mad for them on eBay!

[Laura+Phantom]

Saddlers should make them to fit to allow correct muscle development.

Does my pony look high withered in the first photo? No, not particularly, and silly old me trusted this person's opinion that he needed dropped panels. The saddle actually gave him muscle atrophy from pressing into his wither, how is a horse supposed to develop a topline if there is no room for the muscle to develop?

As I said to another person, she should have fitted it to Phantom, as a horse, not to his wither or how he was on the day. He is a wide boy with huge shoulders, that should have been taken into account.

She didn't offer to buy it back; they are a large business that advertises that they buy second hand saddles - she'll buy anything that'll turn a profit, she wasn't doing me a favour, believe me. I wasn't sure if it fitted or not, but she said it would, so I assumed it would. I won't make that mistake again.

As for ebay - this is the fifth time it's been on, fifth price drop, and no interest. I have a starting bid of £100 :(

[Nik-n-Kia]

That's a bl**dy disgrace

Are we allowed to name and shame??? Never came across that before ie name and shame??

One of the girls at my last yard had a fitter come out to her 4 yr old SHIRE X she was exactly like a mini shire ie 16.1 hh not full size!! Massive neck/shoulder mucles back that you could serve a banquet on and very little wither.

He sold her a sadlle that was supposedly flexi tree but was actually broken when another fitter checked it!! Also it was medium wide:eek: :eek: !!

She was recommended a thorowgood griffin cob XXW which you could drive a bus through;) and it fitted like a dream!!!

Was the saddle fitter affiliated??? If so you can get in contact with the master saddlery society they can make them refund you!!!!

nikki xxxx

[Alfies-slave]

The flocking can be adjusted to allow for muscle development. If radical muscle development is anticipated then you should be prepared to buy an extra saddle/s with a different tree. No fixed tree saddle can be adjusted infinately.

If you started off using a saddle that would fit your horse now, a non-fitting saddle would have been supplied. Your horse would probably have sufferd all sorts of back and muscular problems. No fitter is a fortune teller, they can not predict if or how a horse might change. That is down to how the horses owner changes its shape with exercise/weight management.

What I am saying is that saddle fitting is something the rider does every time a saddle is placed on the horss back. Saddles need to be flocked and fitted as an ongoing process. You can not expect to buy one saddle and leave it at that.

At my yard all the hunters have 3 saddles which are all regularly flocked and fitted. This is the fine tuning to allow for muscle developmen. They start off with their grass saddles for when they come off of the grass and back to work at the end of the summer. Then as they develop muscle and topline they move on to their fittening saddles. At the end of cubbing they are hunting fit and move on to their working saddles. There is sometimes 2-3 sizes difference between the grass saddles and their working saddles. If you go down the road of fitted saddles made to measure it is an expensive and time consuming adventure.

[Laura+Phantom]

Who can afford to buy 3 saddles? I have 3 horses! This is why I have gone down the treeless route (I know they need fitting too).

The point is, my pony has never, in the 11 years I have owned him, looked narrow. I don't think it ever fitted.

Nik n kia - she/they are not on the SMS members page unfortunately :rolleyes:

Edited to say : I only had it made to measure because she claimed she had nothing to fit him, out of a shop full of saddles.

[harryhorse11]

hmm this woman didn't come from East Sussex by any chance ??

[Laura+Phantom]

Nope, Cornwall :)

[Nik-n-Kia]

Poor you!!!:(

Are we allowed to name and shame??? Nonoe answered me and I'm not being cheeky or nasty or stirring it i just don't want to get into trouble for mentioning names if I ever post anything like that!!!

Hope you get one that fits!!!!

Nikki xxxx :D

[vivi]

Join the club - of being sold saddles that don't fit then 'saddled' with them (geddit?). I've learnt the expensive way to fit my own saddles and ignore what the saddler says. I certainly would never buy a made to measure one. I haven't yet come across anybody who has had a good experience with going that route. I don't know why this is because it SHOULD be the right thing to do. And woe betide you when you want to sell said made to measure saddle - it won't fit anyone else's horse either!

Obviously I can't comment on the OP's saddle fit but I am surprised that a pony (that apparently the fitter likened to a cow) of native type would require a narrow medium width saddle unless very emaciated. The saddler, in that case, should have explained that the saddle would not fit as the pony gained in condition. I can't imagine an owner being told this would then agree to buy a new £530 made to measure saddle.

Did the saddler take a template (a profile of the wither traced down onto paper) at the time of the fitting and if so can you have a look at it? I think this is the usual procedure these days to help protect the saddler from being accused of an incorrectly built saddle. This could help you decide if you are right about the original fit or not?

[jenren!!]

Tell her where to go and find someone else. Comments like that dont go near a horse in my opinion. Go find someone who actually respects your choices and fits the saddle properly.

[Alfies-slave]

The three saddles don't have to be expensive. We buy 2nd hand and use synthetic for the times you don't need leather. It is possible to buy 3 2nd hand saddles for the price of one new one. Some we use cost as little as 50 pounds. The ones we use for hunting are the more expensive, better ones. We aren't botherd about the make or poshness of the saddles, so long as they are servicable and fit, at the end of the day it is the comfort of the horse that matters.

We find it saves money using the saddles this way. You save oney on the back man, the vet and remedial schooling. The horses keep their value better. If a hireling is unable to be hired out because it is unsound it is costing us money.

Having a sister who is a saddler does help, we get 'mates rates'.

[nix]

She is right about treeless saddles and high witherd narrow horses, despite the hype, treeless saddles don't suit all horses and the fit of them is just as important as the fit of a traditional saddle. There was a woman who owned a trekking centre who had to shut down this summer at the height of trade. She had gone treeless at the start of the season and by the summer holidays ALL 15 of her horses were off with bad backs.

Hmmm, you'd better tell my high withered TB that :rolleyes: , he's been happy in his for the last year or two ... properly padded, of course. Same goes for a number of people on the EE forum who have high withered horses.

The problem with treeless is usually people who feel they don't need any fitting at all and don't take the horse's conformation into account, when looking at suitable padding/saddlecloths etc. Would be interested to know which treeless saddle the trekking centre used, as not all treeless saddles are the same.

[Alfies-slave]

I think they were mainly Treki or Trekkers or something, I remember seeing the ad when she was trying to sell them on! She wantd 400 pounds a piece for them, inc pads, girths etc. There were a couple of Dartmoor ones, she wanted a bit more for them. Most of her ponies were natives, (won't say which breed because there are only a few centres in the UK devoted to that breed!) Sorry, don't know any more than that!

[Laura+Phantom]

Well I managed to exercise Phantom today and he is very overweight (not through anything i've done), and believe me, a treed saddle wouldn't even go near him, he is like a big fat barrell. I used my treeless on him and it wraps around like a glove, no pressure under the pommel or withers, and he was happy as Larry. There is a place for them. Mine is a Trekker by the way. As with anything, you can use them incorrectly, but so can you with tree saddles. A certain riding school I know uses treed saddles on all their horses and their backs are the worst i've ever seen.

Vivi - she never took a template, just measured his wither with a little adjustable wooden thing.