Collection through the bit rather than seat?

[Daffy Dilly]

I'd decided to stop riding Daffy until I had a saddle/could have my instructor there, but now I feel like being stubborn.

The problem I'm having is his trot - it's bouncy, and my seat isn't fantastic. It's not going to get fantastic unless I practise, but I feel very insecure, and am too insecure to collect his trot up and smooth it out.

When I was riding with a saddle and would school for shows, I'd use a pelham with two reins, and a slight squeeze of the curb would bring him back. So not really collection, but it stopped the rushing, which is what I try to do when I collect him up - slower strides, more impulsion.

Is it worth giving it a go bareback? Theoretically once I have him going in a half decent manner I can actually work on my seat and legs, and hopefully bounciness won't be a long term issue.

[cigar_fan1]

Using the bit for "collection" gives you false collection and "suppleness". All this will do is slow the bounce down, his back will still be hollow and thus the hind end still not engaged. I do love bareback and no stirrup work for balance and seat but ultimately you need to have your horse soft in his back and engaged and working from his hind end. If the horse is soft and you are soft, the bounce will almost disappear and you will be able to sit IN to your horse rather than ON him. If his back is braced and hollow and you are braced and stiff, the bounce will be unbearable! (Trust me, I have a Friesian cross with a HUGE stride and when her back is hollow and she is bracing, there is nothing worse, when she softens it is actually quite easy to sit.) Think of a basketball being dropped on a plush couch - it won't bounce; drop that same ball on a hard floor and watch it come right back up. What you need to do is engage your horse's hind end which will soften the back an make him come round and forward. Do a lot of transitions, all sorts, walk to trot to halt to trot to walk, mix it up and get him thinking about what will be asked next. This will help rock him back on to his haunches. You also want to work on circles, really focus on asking the inside hind leg to step up and under. Depending on your horses suppleness, ask for smaller circles, spiral in and then gradually increase the circle size again. Remember the transitions as well while on the circle. If he knows how to perform a turn on the haunches, ride a square, in each corner asking him to move his front end around this hind end before stepping off on the next straight side. Don't worry about where his head is, when his hind end is engaged and his back is soft, his head will follow; too often people worry about the front end first and this is where false collection happens - they just worry about the head position and forget that true collection, suppleness and engagement starts from behind. Goos luck and don't give up! I started riding my first horse bareback as I didn't have enough money for a saddle until months after purchasing him! I took a few tumbles while finding my seat but eventually we both understood what we each needed to do to make our rides pleasant! Have fun experimenting and learning!

[Blair Witch]

I've had a lot of issues with the trot too when I first began and some horses are harder than others. What I would do is ask your horse to trot and begin to post a couple of times around. When you feel like you have a good understanding of his movements just sit down without thinking to much around it. Make sure you don't lean forward and loosen up your hips. Sometimes I find it helps if you slightly grip with your calves.

Work without stirrups will definately help, even bareback if your secure with it. You could ask someone to lunge your horse while you ride him at a trot so all you'll have to think about is your seat and not your reins. Lenghening your stirrups might help too.

[Daffy Dilly]

I don't have a saddle, and that is what is causing the problem tbh. I used to be fine with a saddle, I had the balance and stability to be able to focus on other areas and improve them. Even without stirrups I was a lot more stable than I am now. However, he's had some therapy, and his trot is now becoming higher and more active from the knee as it should be (he's a welsh) and as a result it's become bouncier.

In any case, I've always struggled to sit to it bareback as it is so bouncy, and I find myself either slipping, or gripping and being bounced somewhere else. Right now it means that I'm struggling to collect him up as I can't use my seat and contain the impulsion without feeling like I'm heading out of the side door. But as I can't collect him and slow his trot, I'm struggling to learn to sit to it properly, and the cycle continues.

He hasn't been in a pelham for months, however I used to use the curb at a fast canter to bring him to a slow canter, and the same in trot. Perhaps it worked because less aid was needed with that being stronger, but it did work and brought him back into my control. Which right now, is what I feel like I'm lacking.

[Afellpony]

Whether you ride with a saddle or bareback, if you're relaxed you shouldn't bounce. Bareback can be a good exercise as you get the feel of the horse's movement better than you do with a saddle. Just feel the movement of the horse and go with that.

[alwaysfallingof]

For the moment, I'd forget about collection, and work on finding your seat on the bouncy trot and then you can come back to making him work properly. If you're bouncing, it'll be very hard to stop him hollowing.

Could you put a neckstrap around his neck for something to hold onto, and practice putting dropping your legs into the right place, relaxing, then gently asking for trot, trotting a few strides then coming back to walk when you feel yourself losing your seat or tensing, sort yourself out again then trot on...and continue! You should find that within a couple of days you're able to sit longer and longer trots comfortably.:) Even if to begin with you only ever ask for trot down long sides, and always walk the corners.:)
If one of your main problems is gripping, then concentrating on keeping your upper legs back and around might help...it did with me (can you tell I've just had to do this myself due to enforced lack of saddle?!:o )