back cinch strap

[No_Angel]

does a back cinch strap give extra stability to a saddle?

[cvb]

Yes - for a treed western saddle.

Some folk will tell you that is only needed when you are doing extreme work like roping, cutting etc.

But there is an interesting saddle fit video that shows why a rear cinch is needed, and why it should not be slack... (About The Horse's video)

[No_Angel]

thanks, do you think it would have the same effect on a treeless western saddle?
Mines a bit slippy at the moment and would like to make it a bit more secure, it seems ok when i mount, but my dad insists on moutning from the ground and hes a bit heavier then i am.

[cvb]

I don't know so much about treeless. It ought to help a little with the back twisting in relation to the front, but it will depend where the main girth is. And where the girth is vs the stirrups (just thinking basic physics and levers etc).

Does it have a strap for a rear cinch ? Have you asked the makers ? If it is designed to use one, you are normally better doing so - and vice versa ;)

[No_Angel]

It has a ring for a back strap, although doesnt come with one.
this is the saddle
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/madams_walk/PICT0014-1.jpg

[cvb]

when your dad gets on, does the whole lot slide at once, or does the back twist over more ?

(it looks like the stirrups are pretty much in line with the main girth ?)

also thinking that the rear D must/might just be attached to the skirt, given you don't have a tree to attach to ? Might be worth seeing whether there is anything more substantial there... ? Because I would expect that the main girth has something to give it some strength. If the rear D is just attached the the skirt, it may not give you the stability you require ?

[smaggi]

But there is an interesting saddle fit video that shows why a rear cinch is needed, and why it should not be slack... (About The Horse's video)

Can you give us any details why they say the rear cinch should be snug? I have always heard that you are supposed to leave about an inch of slack.

[No_Angel]

from memory, i think he gets on, all stays for a bit, then back slips, then if he keeps struggling the front then moves.
The stirrups are about in line with the girthing. I think the straps for the girth are inside the saddle, and the back ring is sewn onto the skirt, im not sure whether it goes any further or not.
I will also get a breastplate to see if that will aid stability for him.

[cvb]

Can you give us any details why they say the rear cinch should be snug? I have always heard that you are supposed to leave about an inch of slack.

your best bet would be to watch the video ;)

But I'll try explain it... it also explains why you should not over tighten the cinch...

The tree is solid. The horse's back moves.

Now imagine you have two surfaces in contact with each other - but they are only connected at one point - in the centre. If you have the two pieces snug but not tight, as one moves, the other will stay with it. But the place where there is least displacement between the two is where the fixing is - and the further away you get, the more difference there is in one surface "catching up" with the other...

As you tighten up that fixing, it is going to bring that one point closer and closer, but in reaction, as one of the surfaces moves (e.g. the horse) - the parts away from that fixed point are not going to be able to move as well, and the difference between the two parts gets bigger.

If instead you have two points of fixture, which are snug but not tight, then the two surfaces stay pretty much in line with each other. (If you tighten one cinch over the other, it all starts to bounce about again)

The "analogy" the video uses as a rocking chair on a flat surface. If you "tie" the rocker to the board it is on, and then move the board - the rocker will move with the board but oscillates back and forward.

If you tighten that fixing up, the rocker gets more and more pinned to that one point and oscillates more and more.

(interesting to think that if a saddle slips, we tend to tighten the girth - but actually this can sometimes be the wrong thing to do !)

If you add a second fixing point, at equal tension to the other, the rocker now can move with the board.

Its much better as a visual demo :o

A slack rear cinch is only going to act if the gap between it and the horse is taken up by the movement of the horse (e.g. its back comes up as it slides ?). The rest of the time it is having no effect at all.

(I suspect that a balance strap on a sidesaddle - which is snug not loose - works in a similar way to a snug rear cinch).

(Of course the rigging on a saddle is related - some saddles are rigged not to use a rear cinch.)

[smaggi]

your best bet would be to watch the video ;)

You're right, but I looked at About the Horse and the video is $25. :cool:

Thanks cvb, the rocker analogy makes perfect sense. I am now a convert. I'm going to snug my back cinch the same as my front cinch.

I have always been a believer in not over tightening the front cinch. I know I would hate to try to move as an athlete with an extremely tight belt around my waist, so I never understood why it would different for a horse. I keep it tight enough that my saddle doesn't slip, but I can still get my fingers under it. My saddle fits Cisco really well so it doesn't move around a lot even with a loose cinch.