Barefoot Hooves + Photos

[Waikato Valuta]

My horse has been unshod for a little over a year. however he was only unshod because the shoes fell of and no one bothered to replace them, or even trim his feet.

So since I brought him I have had his feet trimmed, by a traditional farrier and then 3 weeks ago by a barefoot guy.

He is slightly lame, he will nod his head around corners sometimes, and gets quite distressed if asked to cross anything remotely hard. I have attached some photos of his feet at the moment. Is there anything wrong with his trim or should I start looking for another cause?

He is a 17.1hh, TB, I noticed his feet do look a bit chipped. But it has only been three weeks and I wasn't going to get him done again for another 3 weeks. The lameness had not gotten better or worse with the trim.

Front Feet
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/Waikato_Valuta/Jackson_Feet29-12-06/Front.jpg
Front Right
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/Waikato_Valuta/Jackson_Feet29-12-06/Front-Right.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/Waikato_Valuta/Jackson_Feet29-12-06/F_R.jpg
Front Left
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/Waikato_Valuta/Jackson_Feet29-12-06/Front-Left.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/Waikato_Valuta/Jackson_Feet29-12-06/F_L2.jpg

Back Right
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/Waikato_Valuta/Jackson_Feet29-12-06/Back-Right.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/Waikato_Valuta/Jackson_Feet29-12-06/B_R.jpg
Back Left
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/Waikato_Valuta/Jackson_Feet29-12-06/Back-Left.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/Waikato_Valuta/Jackson_Feet29-12-06/B_L.jpg

And his just standing
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/Waikato_Valuta/Jackson_Feet29-12-06/Jackson.jpg

[cowboy007]

Looking at the photos I would be a little concerned about what is happening at the edges of the frog both sides are grown over which could mean that an infection could get in there via a cut or stone can you get in there to keep them clean

[S_F_S]

Several things jump out to me.

1. The confirmation of his forehand as a whole. He is VERY upright throughout the front limb, and clearly over at the knee on this near side. That would be putting some extra pressure on the tendons and ligaments on impact with the ground, which might not affect all horses (I have far worse on my yard sound and out competeing) but horsesforcourses etc.

2. I find it hard to believe those feet were trimmed only 3 weeks ago - there is a very evident flare on the inside of the fronts, which shouldn't appear so soon. Maybe you need to investigate a farrier who can assess these issues - we know the horses who are prone to flares and take them back more than is usual to prevent issues.

3. I would also look at his hoof/pastern axis as a reason for possible unsoundness.In the forelegs it is clearly slightly broken back , again putting a little more stress on the tendons. This is somethign I know of well - my horse has appalling HPA, but with a knowledgeable farrier they can over time adresss that issue.

4. Looking at the underside of the feet I would prefer to see a lot more evidence of symmetry. This suggests that the heel is not level, again not balancing the horse and possibly causing this lameness which you describe.

5. Looking at the general conditon, and understanding that your climate is very different to ours at this time of year, I would consider some sort of moisture providing or holding product, the sole seems quite dry and there is evidence of some cracks appearing in the wall.

Nearly finally - can you get a pic of the side profile of the sole of the foot? He look as though he could be quite slightly convex in the sole, which might make him a bit sore footed without corrective shoeing.



And finally - you think I can go on about feet, don't start me on saddery :)

[Lucy J]

the quality of the feet/horn on the whole don't look too bad. I'd reckon if the horse was shod you wouldn't see the lameness, but looks like hes foot sore on rough ground due to the soles being a little dropped. Corrective shoeing or perseverence barefoot will sort this long term. front feet look a little upright to me.....a good way to check if weight is being distributed easily through the feet is to feel the insides of the legs between knee and fetlock. if you can feel the pulse through the legs or the veins seem swollen then that will indicate the feet are not how they should be and the weight is being distributed into one area rather than spread across the whole sole. the frogs do look pretty dry and standing in water or perhaps even some additives to the feed may help the dryness. i don't think you have a major problem, but make sure you have a farrier who is trimming properly (easier said than done) and things should come right. to be honest given the type of horse I would consider corrective shoeing until everything looks better then consider the barefoot root, but I'm biased having a mare with dreadful feet who goes lame or works reluctantly if not trimmed 100% correctly.... no foot no horse....

[Volvic]

Personally I would put shoes on him. One of my friends tried to keep her TB barefoot & had to cope with abcesses & various lamenesses but since shes had shoes on I dont think shes been lame. If hes having difficulty crossing hard ground i think its fairer to him for him to have shoes on. I agree that in an ideal world all horses would be barefoot, but unfortunately its not an ideal world & shoes are around for a reason!

I know a TB who is happy barefoot but he is not expected to do anything other than stay in a field!

[Bay Mare]

First of all I don't see any reason from the pics to put shoes back on. TBs can and do go successfully barefoot and they don't just stay in the field!

I have to agree with SFS though that they don't look like feet that were only trimmed 3 weeks ago. There is a lot of flare and the feet are imbalanced. The frogs need trimming and I would like to see more of a roll as that will help with preventing the cracking and will also help the foot to work correctly.

It's difficult to see the sole properly from the pics but I would say that if you scraped it you'd see some 'chalky' stuff underneath and that the sole with exfoliate with correct conditioning.

I would also treat for infection.

What 'brand' of trimmer do you use? I think that I'd be looking for someone who is qualified in one of the better known methods who concentrates more on balance, treating flare and conditioning. I would also want to be shown how to keep the 'roll' between trims as Saffy has been much better and her feet in better condition since I've been tidying things up between trims.

Initially I would only go for 3-4 weeks between trims especially if the ground is dry and they're getting more stimulation so are potentially going to be growing more foot.

The best places for advice on barefoot are the Barefoot forums on the EE board or the AEPAUK forums (though they are KC La Pierre so may differ slightly from other methods that you may have come across).

Good luck :)

[buttons]

Oh Dear! If he was mine I'd see a farrier ASAP! Looks to me that the feet are dry, cracking and need to be trimmed properly - by someone qualified! He is trying to tell you something when crossing hard ground - his feet are sore.

Whether or not you shoe him depends on the amount of work you intend to do with him. If you want to ride - especially over hard ground, with feet like that, I would shoe him! Listen to your horse!!

[CurlyWurlyRach]

id say his frogs need trimming.

[Waikato Valuta]

Thanks for your advise. I will get someone out to look at him ASAP. He was trimmed 3 weeks ago, perhaps going on 4 now. He was trimmed at the yard he was staying at for training. I don't know who did the trimming and I didn't see it happening. But i trusted the train because he is very much into all the barefoot, and bit less stuff.

HMMMM... I will have to look into it. He is fine when riding in sand. So I have been floating him to my PC grounds to ride.

Edited to add: I don't think he is over at the knee he is simply standing with his toe in a hole.

Here is a side shot of his hoof:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/Waikato_Valuta/Jackson_Feet29-12-06/B_L2-1.jpg

[Waikato Valuta]

When I took him to the trainer he didn't believe it had only been 4 week since the last trim either. He looked at me like I was an idiot. But I swear I am telling the truth. Perhaps the farrier didn't do a good job but they were done.

[Shadowlark]

That trim does look older then 4 weeks - maybe your horse was overlooked when the rest were getting done - it does happen! Farriers are human ;)

Your horses feet arn't awful, they need a good tiddy up and to be balanced.

Remember your relationship with your farrier IS important. Interview a few ask around as To who is using whom and what methods they use. Have an idea what you want going in. I have had tremendous success with keeping my horses barefoot, and have throughly enjoyed learning how to do my horses feet myself.

All the best

[Bay Mare]

Oh Dear! If he was mine I'd see a farrier ASAP! Looks to me that the feet are dry, cracking and need to be trimmed properly - by someone qualified! He is trying to tell you something when crossing hard ground - his feet are sore.


The cracks are probably a result of the flare, the hoof is self trimming, which is why I advised the roll. There is also possibly some infection in there which will also cause cracking. With regards to the sole that's probably false or exfoliating sole which will come away once the foot is trimmed and balanced and some conditioning work is done.

I would also think that there is some infection in those frogs which could account for the footiness. There are a few different approaches to this .... cleantrax as a one-off blitz on the infection (time consuming but effective), a borax or milton soak. Cider vinegar (I use a 50/50 dilution with water and add a couple of drops of tea tree). I'm currently using honey which seems to be working really well, thoroughly clean the foot first and then just get some honey and smear it onto the frog and into the crevices. Another excellent 'treatment' is tea tree soap followed by a herbal WLD balm from Pioneer Personal Care Products on ebay ... brilliant stuff :)


Whether or not you shoe him depends on the amount of work you intend to do with him. If you want to ride - especially over hard ground, with feet like that, I would shoe him! Listen to your horse!!

From the photos those feet look perfectly capable of coming right with correct trimming and conditioning. They can only get better. It's a fallacy that horses need to have shoes to work on hard ground, it just takes time and needs to be approached correctly.


The other thing to consider is low grade laminitis and also the horse's diet which can make a huge difference to the feet. Most barefooters are supplementing with magnesium these days which is beneficial for the feet, for laminitics and also for behaviour!

[Spotty_Pony]

Slop on some hoof oil to moisten them up! That'll do the trick! ;)

[Bay Mare]

Hoof oil is the last thing that you want to put onto hooves, it's ok for special occasions but not for regular use. It prevents moisture going in and out of the hoof wall so actually causes drying and cracks in the long run.

[Waikato Valuta]

Thanks Bay Mare, I'll try the honey first.

I took him down to pony club today and stood him in the water jump for about 15min. They have a dam in their paddock and reguraly have mud on their front feet but rarely on the back.

As for diet all he gets is grass. I'll look into some sort of supliment.

[BeachRiding]

Only three weeks? When I bought Gitcha he hadn't had a trim in over 10 weeks and his hooves looked like that. I would def. get a different farrier. Also the hooves look terribly dry, how about using the hose to soak an area in his field where he stand a lot? I do that in the summer and it gives the horses free access to role in the mud and keeps their feet very healthy.

[Waikato Valuta]

Like I said I didn't actually see his feet being trimmed. But I was told they were.

I would get in big trouble if I hosed an area of the paddock for that. We are in a serious drought and have strict water restrictions in place. We cant even have baths let alone water the paddock. But perhaps if the hose was left on accidentally ;) Hmmmm….

[S_F_S]

I highly rate the NAF hoof moisturiser - second product down. And this is australian page of NAF website.

http://www.nafaustralia.com.au/shop/products/products_c5.html

[Sexy Sietske]

One of my horses feet havn't been trimmed in 4months because we can't get a farrier willing to deal with her cow kicking and other one hasn't been done for 2months because he didn't need it. But they have been stabled alot recently and I noticed that they are getting long so looks like the kicker is going to have to be sedated :o
But their feet arnt dry or cracked just long now. I love naf hoof moist its realy realy good for dry feet.

[Nik-n-Kia]

I persoanlly think that his heels are trailing/sinking and this might be causing the distress in crossing anything hard as the bulb af the heel is sensitive.

i would put shoes back on him and build his feet back up then you could go back to barefoot if you wish but I think that his feet look flat and that would put me off going barefoot.

I don't have anything against barefoot but it doesn't suit all horses and tb's are prone ot flat feet and no frogs.

Nikki xxxx

[MelanieD]

They do look like they need a better trim and are due for a trim. There's a growth ring visible in some pics that could be related to a mild bout of laminitis, hard to tell from pics if it really is or is just an innocent change of diet type one, but some pics do look like there's a change of angle of the hoof wall at the growth ring which makes it one that could be from past laminitis. Balance looks off in some of the pics and heels look weak and collapsed outwards, one side worse than the other on some pics which is likely to be balance related. Soles don't look great but it's hard to tell from pics.

Do you know if the digital cushions are good? If you poke around between the heel bulbs between the bottom of the pastern and the hairline and it feels hard that's good, if it's squishy that's bad but it is usually possible to improve it with the right conditioning work.

Flat feet don't usually stay flat with a good barefoot trim and the right conditioning work. One of mine was flat footed when shod, isn't flat footed after some time barefoot and is sound over everything now. TBs can go barefoot, they do have feet that tend to go wrong easily if not very well looked after but from what I've seen they have far more potential to go wrong when shod than when barefoot. I've seen some very nice feet attached to TBs.

[Shadowlark]

I persoanlly think that his heels are trailing/sinking and this might be causing the distress in crossing anything hard as the bulb af the heel is sensitive.

i would put shoes back on him and build his feet back up then you could go back to barefoot if you wish but I think that his feet look flat and that would put me off going barefoot.

I don't have anything against barefoot but it doesn't suit all horses and tb's are prone ot flat feet and no frogs.

Nikki xxxx

Interesting statements.

Most barefoot experts/trimmers would tell you the exact oposite.. actually my old traditional farrier used to pull shoes for flat feet also. When we bought them off the track the first thing he did was pull thier shoes off and let the feet heal for a few months. Come to think of it.. if that old boy had written a book.. we might be singing his praises now.

There are some interesting articles on the subject here on Peter Ramey's site.
http://www.hoofrehab.com/hoof%20articles%20by%20Rete%20Ramey.htm
The argument is that they are "prone" to flat foot etc due to shoes, not due to breeding and that we havn't REALLY bred the foot out of them.

They are of course written by a barefoot advocate. It's his methods for the most part that I have used on my own horses.

[makebelieve]

My old horse had cracked feet similar to those. We used a daily supplement of biotin/methionine which worked wonders for her.