Will she affiliate?

[Gothika]

Do you think Lacey will affiliate with the bsja?

She's 5, 14.3hh welsh cob section D, but she has a long stride and a lot of (I think) scope. She's very careful and quite bold, she hardly ever stops without a lot of reason. I've taken her to two (jumping) shows, only done tiny classes, but she's done 3 clears and one of them was a double clear (other times I messed up - lost my way so turned right infront of the jump I was supposed to be jumping so, for her sake, I turned a circle, and the second time I put her wrong into a double, she did a huge jump over it, I got ahead of her so couldnt kick on and she hates doubles so stopped, and I was ahead of her so no where to go but down). The time she jumped a double clear no one else did so we won it.

At home I've jumped her up to 103cm both oxer and upright, and done a small course of 4 3 foot jumps, and she doesn't show an hesitation.

Here's her jump. I've got better photos but they're on a disk and don't have time to upload them right now.

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g215/ahrena/gate.jpg
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g215/ahrena/bigjump.jpg
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g215/ahrena/lotsofspace.jpg

[PinkGlamourGurl]

Probably yes. Now its a case of getting her out and about and competing upto BSJA standard. BN for seniors is 90cm, then 95cm in the jumpoff? i think. You will need to make sure she doesnt struggle with the striding since she is a little horse if you get me.

She has got wonderful scope and welsh d's can make amazing jumpers :) I would definitely work on it then get a ticket to ride in a local BSJA.

[nutkin]

it is possible that she will bsja but I would agree she may find the striding difficult as the courses are designed for bigger horses.I would take her on a day ticket and see how she does.

[gypsygold]

She sounds very similar to my 5 year old horse/pony? (not sure yet). He is jumping double clears and getting placed everytime out unaffiliated but only at small heights.

However take it slowly and dont push for too much too soon. This had happened with our boy and he had lost a lot of confidence so when we got him we took him back to 1'6" and is now only competing at 2'0" classes and are we are taking it up slowly. We know he can clear 4 ft easily at home but was asked for too much too soon and he is only 5 (well maybe 6 from today?). Any sign of hesitation or stopping and take it back a level.

Remember to practice over lots of different types of fences as well as working on height. The first time to see a parellel fence is not at a competition so work on different types of fence at low height at home first.

Looking at the photos she has a nice tidy foreleg position with her knees mostly brought well forward but there may be a chance she is going to start jumping a bit flat looking at the top and bottom photo. The bottom one she has stood off it a bit and is going to struggle to make the height if standing off and jumping flat. I dont know how she comes at her fences but speed lowers height ability and she just looks to be rushing a bit in this photo.

It would be good to see more photos particularly how she carries her quarters over the fence. Great lift in front is no good if the back legs are trailing.

In all from what you have said yes she should do well but take it at her pace so many good jumpers are spoilt by overfacing them to soon - she will let you know when shes out of her comfort zone but she shouldnt have to if you see what I mean. As for the striding she may struggle a bit with the distances but practice plenty at the same distances at home so you and her know how to ride them.

Good luck

[Gothika]

She does jump quite speedily, which we're working on with lots and lots of gridwork.

I did worry about the striding at first, but jumping combinations ect at home, I've found she takes bigger strides in doubles ect than my 15.1hh tbx (I know its not a huge height difference but yeah).

I was intending to hopefully spend 1 and a half to 2 years jumping unnaffiliated, building up to 2 foot 9/3 foot by the end of this year, and then a while doing 3 foot and 3 foot 3 until she's placing and jumping consistant double clears comfortably. I don't want to push her too fast.

Gypsygold - have you got any good tips for work on making sure she makes a round shape other than slowing down and gridwork?

Although I've jumped her 1.03m at home, I wouldn't jump her any higher for the time being because..It's hard to describe, even though she didn't hesitate and jumped it cleanly, I'm not sure how to describe it, but I knew it would be a bad idea to put it up.

Here are some photos of her back legs over fences...
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g215/ahrena/course002_0001.jpg
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g215/ahrena/hinglegs1.jpg
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g215/ahrena/legs2.jpg

I hope you can see okay from there. Any tips on how to make her bascule better..:D

[gypsygold]

I'm glad you plan to take it slowly with her. Stayat one height till you think she could do it with her eyes shut, no wobbling, no looking at jumps between her knees :rolleyes: , no flying round like she cant wait to get it over with. When she feels like shes 15 years old and jumped these all her life rather than 5 take it up a level but at the same time without boring her - getting the balance right really :rolleyes:

She looks to be very careful with her back legs as well which is good and does tend to give her fences a lot of space, this may mean she is quite wary and really doesnt want to touch them which is no bad thing but if a horse like this does crash through one having been asked too much too soon it can really knock them back.

Its good she doesnt struggle with the striding and this will help you but in fact if this is because she is going on too long a stride she will make things very difficult for herself at a double.

As for making a good shape slowing down will help as will grid work and also try jumping spreads and parrelells and a range of fences. Grid work will really help the most and wil also help with the speed. However I have to say that personally I do feel that some horses just naturally bascule well and some dont just as some lift their legs well forward as your girl seems to while others dangle from the shoulder if you see what I mean. I do think your girl does have a good shape over the jump the only photo she seems to have lost this is the top one of your original post. If you look at the others her head is lowered as her shoulders come up. The bottom photo on your original post she still looks like she will make a reasonable shape but this could easily be lost coming so fast. In my last post I think I was trying to say 'if' she is going too fast and standing off she is going to struggle to make a good shape over the fence.

Try jumping her from trot for a while try by circling her in front of the fence so she doesnt get excited feet away and perhaps try a line of trotting poles before the fence missing out 1 before the actual fence itself. Initially make the fence very small and work up as you dont want her charging throught them at canter:eek: .

If she will not jump from trot it may just be that she is not used to being asked to do so or many horses rush fences because they actually want to get it over and done with rather than are actually enjoying it. This would be difficult to say without actually seeing her in action. I remember a friends daughter spending a lot of money on a jumping pony but was having difficulty with the speed. I have never seen a pony so scared of jumping and so scary to ride either. She really couldnt wait to get it over with - the whole course I'm sure she jumped with her eyes shut - I certainly did :eek: Her owner and previous owner sadly thought she loved jumping.

I would encourage you to get yourself a private jumping lesson with a recomended jumping instructor and see what they think of her but clearly slowing down so jumping from trot and some gridwork may be the way to go but it would be difficult to say without actually seeing her.

I hope this makes sense as my brain goes faster than my fingers:o

[Gothika]

I have thought of her possibly rushing because she was scared, but to be honest, I don't think that's the case. She WILL jump from trot, but its hard work, but I am working on that, every few jumping sessions I spend a good twenty minutes jumping from trot, and it does work. I did that for a bit then jumped a course and it was much more controlled, also, she doesn't always speed off, I honestly don't think she's frightened.

What she tends to do, especially if she's directed at the fence from quite far away, she tends to raise her head higher and high until to stop her charging off I'm holding on to the leather bit of my rubber reins. I think I might need to make my martingale a bit shorter because I know its a bit too long and it doesn't seem to come into effect when it needs to (she's in a running martingale).


What I mean with her stride, is that the first time I did grids with her, I put the same distances as I would for Willow, (she didn't struggle with distances at 1 metre unaffiliated at all), and she started stopping because they were too short. The two times I took her out jumping, when she backed off the double she put in two small strides (you know, unnaffiliated they generally have a distance where its either a long one or 2 short ones so both ponies and horses are okay in it) but when she was following nicely she managed an easy 1 stride when Willow would have struggled to make the distance.

I have had several (private) lessons with her, from a very good isntructor who used to come to my yard every other week and would give 5 or so private lessons, but because we don't have floodlights and it gets dark so early he's been occasionally coming on Saturdays but I havn't had a lesson then because if I'm competing on Sunday I like to go on a long hack on Saturday because it's the one day when we can go for a lovely decent ride other than just 20 minutes on the roads.

If my school isn't completly waterlogged tomorrow, I'll do some jumping, and I'll put out some oxers and spreads as well as a grid. Not sure which to put out, might just do the traditional cross pole one stride upright one stride upright two strides oxer (or miss out one of the uprights if I can't be bothered to put it up/if the school is underwater).

Thanks very much for your advice by the way. I did see her head seems to be very high in the gate picture, I do want to say, that's was the first or second time she'd ever jumped a gate so I don't mind too much if she was a bit gogglie eyes.

[gypsygold]

No, I dont actually think she looks particularly worried about the fences in the photos except perhaps the gate one as you said yourself, its just that it is something to consider thats all. If you could get her to calm a little in her jumping she will not make clumsy mistakes as they get higher. The top jumpers are so steady and unhurried if you notice.

As for her putting her head up this may signify to you her starting to rush and what she is doing is getting the fence into focus. Horses see best along the line of their nose or thereabouts thats why her head comes up. Find some info on the web about how a horse sees and what direction it sees in. You will be suprised how horses working 'round' can actually see a jump at all. There was an instance where two top dressage horses crashed head on in the warmup area because they didnt see each other coming they were 'on the bit' and so actually looking at the floor. I am not suggesting you are planning on tying her head down or anything but just that putting her head probably just means she is trying so see what it is you want her to jump.

Looking at your pics again she stands off most at the 'floating pole' which is understandable as they are very difficult for a horse to judge distance wise without a ground line and not the most horse friendly jumps.

Well that was supposed to be a short answer!

Anyway good luck I'm sure you'll do well.

[tinkerbell11]

yeah your horse can jump. i have seen some welsh Ds can jump up to 1.30m but depends on horses so i think, you can join the BSJA, takes her out and see about.... never know that your horse could be good jumper... Good luck :D

[Volvic]

She should easily affiliate. When I bought my 15.1hh gypsy cob in Sept '05 I was told she'd never jump over 3ft ... we did our first BSJA (British Novice) in October '06 & she flew round & made nothing of it. As long as you let her progress at her own pace im sure she'll affiliate easily.
As for the striding she may struggle a bit with the distances
The BSJA distances arent a problem for Lady & shes relatively short striding (well compared to a TB type of her height)

Good luck :)

[jenren!!]

Im sure, but first id say do a bit more unaffiliated first just to get a bit more experience.

[helenc]

Echo the others - you should get some more unaff comps under your belt first. Why not do some trailblazers or similar - usually OK courses at set heights etc.

It would also be a good idea to iron out her issues with doubles. BSJA courses have two doubles or a double & a treble, they also have a lot of related distances so if she doesn't like jumping fences in a line then she won't like BSJA jumping!

As far as her striding goes - you can check at home if she will make the distances & if she doesn't then you can work on shortening & lengthening her stride accordingly! You need to be working on the following distances which all novice BSJA classes use:-
1 stride double = 8m
2 stride doulbe = 12m
3 stride related = 16m
4 stride related = 20m
5 stride related = 24m (& so on)

I'd say get her flatwork going really well, get more experience at local level & get yourself a really good jumping instructor & then when you do go affiliated, everything will come easier.

You really need to be jumping 1m10 courses consistantly & confidentally before you do BN - the jump off courses are usually set at 1m & the spreads can reach 1m10 although they are usually left from the first round at 1m wide

[Gothika]

Oooh thank you very much for the exact distances, I'll definatly get to work with them.

I am intending of doing a LOT of unnaffiliated show jumping before I even think of jumping her on a ticket - I made the mistake of rushing my first horse a bit and she started stopping (But at the same time she was in pain with the beginning of arthritus which she got treated for, flew round 4 foot jumps at home and then it came back and you know the rest) but I took her (It makes me cringe to say) from jumping 2 foot 3 double clears in April, in the first weekend of August we jumped our first 3 foot 3 class. At the time, because she was jumping clears, I thought she was okay, but looked back at the videos she is jumping very uncomfortably, and I definatly won't make that mistake now.

I'm hoping to take her to Cricklands (3 day championship but it doesnt have a lot of pressure, I've competed there before) at the end of April in 2 foot 3 and possibly 2 foot 6. All I need to do to qualify is jump a double clear so I'm hoping to do that, and yeah, 2 foot 6 trailblazer regionals definatly, and hopefully 2 foot 3, 2 foot 6 or possibly 2 foot 9 UK riders (Trailblazer regionals are too soon to think about 2 foot 9 I think).

Gypsygold - With your comment about the head carriage thing, do you mean I shouldn't worry too much about that, providing she's not rushing? I was just a bit worried because I've never jumped a horse with it's head so high (or maybe she's just got a short neck considering the last 4 horses I jumped regulary were: 15.1hh TB x, 16hh Hanovarian, 16hh TB and 15.1hh Arab X, that I've had to hold on to the leather of the rubber reins to stop her going too fast.

[gypsygold]

yes thats basically what I'm saying but its difficult to say withou seeing her really. If she is throwing it up as a horse does say when its about to bolt, then no, thats not a good thing as it would be a panic reaction. If she is just bringing it up to get a good focus on the fence then not to worry and be careful you just dont try to tie her down too much.

If a horse sees something in the distance say stood in their field think about how high they lift their heads to try to get a good view of it. Try to find some good info on horses visual capabilities and this may give you info on what she is doing.

[jenren!!]

I am intending of doing a LOT of unnaffiliated show jumping before I even think of jumping her on a ticket

You get to work with that then, have fun, and its such a great feeling knowing youre capable of much much more. Good luck :).

[Gothika]

She doesn't jerk it up, its more as soon as the jump is in her line of vision and she realises she's jmping, her head goes higher and higher, but not jerked.

I'm really pleased with her - I jumped her today and did a bounce and a grid, and she was amazing, she didn't rush at all, and it felt really good, she didn't rush even when I jumped a single upright and a style, and she had no problems with doing the bounce (first time she's done one) or anything. Very pleased with her.

I'll keep you all updated with how she goes, maybe a monthly update. :D

[Sammii]

I think she would jump affiliated with ease, and you'd both excel at it! :D You both look great, have fun & good luck! :D

[gypsygold]

Its sounds like your gonna do well then, perhaps the rushing is just excitement and giving her a bit more to concentraet on with grids, bounces etc will give her a bit more to think about and slow her down.

It sounds like shes just looking at her fences but maybe her heads coming a bit higher than neccesary because she just cant wait:D .

Good luck

[Ali_fewins]

hey, i think she will def affiliate.

They are introuducing new classes later this year. A lot of people think BSJA is a big big deal, and the jumps are huge but thats not true!

I am about to take a 148 6yr old pony on to the senior tracks! He hasnt got the biggest of jumps, but i am sure he will be fine!

Try riding on a ticket to start with

She doesn't jerk it up, its more as soon as the jump is in her line of vision and she realises she's jmping, her head goes higher and higher, but not jerked.

Have you tried doing circles in front of the fence, then occassionally jumping it, landing and circling again, then jumping etc its a really good exercise, helps balance, rythm, shape..etc.
Also having a take off pole and a landing pole

[Gothika]

I've circled her infront of it if she charged off at it (she doesn't often but when she's excited and I turn her into it, she can be out like a bullet of a gun so I make her circle because that just isn't acceptable) but I'll def try that exercise.

I havn't done take off/landing poles because I don't know the distance. How long should I make them?

New classes? Ooh are they smaller? How big are they? (We'll be seniors by the way)

[Ali_fewins]

I've circled her infront of it if she charged off at it (she doesn't often but when she's excited and I turn her into it, she can be out like a bullet of a gun so I make her circle because that just isn't acceptable) but I'll def try that exercise.

I havn't done take off/landing poles because I don't know the distance. How long should I make them?

New classes? Ooh are they smaller? How big are they? (We'll be seniors by the way)

its 3 paces, infront and behind the fence, it doesnt have to be exact, it could do the horse some good anyway if there not exactly in the same place each time, get it thinking bout what its doing.

The new classes are going to be smaller, called introductory classes.