Is his jumping REALLY too fast?

[DITZ]

OK so I went to another showjumping class tonight. Entered the clear roudn jumping to start off with. Having practiced/concentrated on letting my horse jump and not worrying about over controlling him we did OK apart from the fact that I bottled it on a couple of the jumps and made them put them down. Have no idea why, horse was happy to jump but I bottled it. Anyway he takes the jumps in his usual flat out style - to which I am fast become accustomed. It no longer frightens me or worries me. He will jump them, he clears them, he doesnt refuse. He speeds up in the last 3-5 strides but I've learnt that fighting him doesnt achieve anything.

So the guy who's organising the event sees me hurtling round and decides to impart his wisdom...that my horse is stubborn, he is dictating the speed in which I go and should be controlled etc etc. He makes me go round again this time *desperately* trying to hold him back - with little effect other than to encounter a couple of runs outs.

I enter the actual class and get eliminated because of the refusals, I think happen because I have a) wound my horse up and b) sent him conflicting signals as to whether I actually want him to jump.

So the question is, how fast is too fast? It must be that I look like I am out of control for people to constantly tell me to slow him down. Except my best instructor with whom I have had the best results who tells me to ride him forwards.

His striding is bang on. On a 3 stride related distance - guess what - we do it in 3 strides no problem!

Should I just ignore these well meaning individuals in favour of believing in my own horse or have they got a point that I am somehow missing?

As you can see I am fed up with having yet again come away with poor results/made to feel like we are doing it wrong.

[casey]

Ditz, ignore this man or any other do gooder who knows your horse better than you.
The fact is your hose is 16, yes he can be improved, but you need to enjoy him for what he is so you can both have fun.
If he isn't refusing and going forwards, then this is the way he's comfortable.
The fact is... a horse is a horse, and will always be a horse. It is only us as riders that refine ourselves to be able to ride them. That is putting up with certain quirks and temperment issues.
If you boy is going around at dangerous high speed then yes, he needs checking. But form the sound of it, your more than capable of handling him. You have instruction and you ask questions on this board. That will always make you a more intelligent rider than those who do neither.
Have a bit of faith in yourself, you know what your boy is capable of.

You'd never tell this is a pet hate of mine eh.....
EDIT: As I spelt intelligent wrong...how ironic!

[Yann]

Don't know much about jumping but can only agree with casey - sounds like he's doing the job right despite his speed. The rider deciding they don't fancy a jump is a far better problem than the other way round So long as you have control and are safe then I'd say you're better off letting him get on with the job without interfering. At the end of the day you don't get any marks for style in jumping, just whether you have cleared the course

[eml]

Stop worrying...you are not trying to train a future Grade A just get on with what you know you can do and enjoy jumping.

Well meaning people still tell my daughter how to 'improve' her horse 'when he grows up', usually when he is standing on his hind legs showing off, but he often goes on to win the class and at 19 and a lifetime of competing behind him if this is his sense of fun we just go with it!!!

[Waikato Valuta]

I'd say if he does his job and you and he enjoy what you do keep on doing it.

But you may want to think about why these people are saying this. It's not just one it's many.

I know I know not just one but many horse people dont think. I'm not saying there right just saying think about it.

If your instructor is happy and you are happy, is the horse happy. Is he in pain in some way or just happy to bolt around a course.

If the later is true then go for it Have fun and ingnore them, but just try and firgure out exactly what they are saying and then disprove it in your own mind that way you can be guilt free when you tell them to take a hike becuase your doing it your way, and that way works just fine.

Good luck

[DITZ]

I think I do know my horse. I trust that he will do the job, he is never nasty, just sometimes naughty. He is still only learning and so am I and because I am dont have any experience I tend to take on board everything other people say. I can only go by where my best results have been and thats been when I have let him find his own pace, whatever speed that may be. I dont feel unsafe on him although thats not always been the case but I've learnt to go with it more and he's never done anything to unseat me.

eml you're right, he's never going to be a grade A and I do have fun, more often than not I am laughing as I'm hairing round!

I think its a confidence thing with him (or me or both) because there are times in the course when he doesnt speed up and jumps out of the same rythmn. Or it could be that I see certain jumps, tense up and make him nervous. Which is more likely in fairness.

[CityGirl]

I'm actually going to disagree. I have always been taught its the riders job to dictace pace/speed & the horses job to get over the fence. You should be the one dictacting how fast you are going into the fence. Otherwise how can you set up a line correctly? Some are going to require you to accelerate, others are going to collect up (esp if it's a tight line). At lower heights, its fine to bomb through the course b/c the horse can handle it. However as the heights increase, you're going to have to have the horse firmly btwn leg & hand, otherwise you're setting yourself up to get hurt.

That being said, I think your instructor telling you to "ride forward" is correct too. You shouldn't be fiddling around or slowing up before a jump - all you're doing is setting up for a refusal. Once you're coming into the set-up/take-off phase, you should be set. If you've made a mistake, you need to ride forward to fix it, not hold back.

[DITZ]

What I've been practicing on is trying to control him as I come into the turn but letting go once the approach is set as you said. What the guy wanted me to do was check him all the way into the fence which has an adverse effect because I reckon its sending him confusing signals about what i want him to do. he does slow down in the last few strides even when he's going fast. He is also much better on higher courses - perhaps he respects them more?

[carrie160]

i think that as long as the horse isnt refusing the jumps and isnt knocking them down adn your happy then there is no problem. If however you want to slow him down i would advise you to try it at home rather than when competing and if people give you advise when you are out (eg the man) listen but dont try it until you are at home, or else it could result in upseting your horse

[martini55]

My horse is like that, she slows down a tiny bit for bigger fences but not much. It's just the excitement of a competition that gets her going as she is fine at home. Lol when I was doing a pc team event, which was my first open, it was just a double round u had to do (went clear ) and when i came out someone commented "does she know that wasnt agains the clock" lol!!! I try and get a nice balanced canter in between fences and just leave the jumping to her- i trust her enough to clear them, and if i fiddle trying to slow down I just interfere and that's when we get knock downs etc. She is very honest SJ and is known to get us both out of sticky situations which were all down to me interfering. If you are successful and its not a problem with you just keep going as you are- as long as its fun!

[CityGirl]

Ah that is a bit clearer. I wouldn't check a horse immediately before a fence, I think you're absolutely right in saying it sends conflicting signals. If you've ridden your line correctly, you really shouldn't be trying to slow him up b/c the pace is already set which will allow you to get the distances correctly. The most I might do is a half-halt if we're doing a tight combination just to check him & collect him back so that we don't dive through.

I will say I had an eye-opening experience watching the US Olympic Show Jumping Trials. These riders were tackling these absolutely HUGE fences and they never looked like they were in any way speeding through the course. Yes you would see the horse speed up coming into the line just to get the necessary acceleration but everything was completely calm. Definitely gave me something to think about.

I'm one of those jumpers who loves to ride VERY agressively. And at the heights I'm doing now, its fine. But now that the fences are going up, I'm going to need to learn to slow down in order to ride the course correctly. Perhaps that is what the people are trying to say to you??

[Tootsie4U]

Do what makes you and your horse happy. Afterall, riding is a partnership right? AND, its supposed to be fun, right?

There is a standard to which all of us try to achieve, regardless of discipline. Now, how many of us actually can ride at that standard? Even the best of the best take lessons to get better. There is no ceiling in this sport. Anyone can sit there and tell you "it should look like this - he should be doing X or Y" but if there is no foundation, it aint gonna happen!

If you want polish, ask for it gradually. Up until recently, that horse underneath you, between your legs, has been all wound up and refusing at shows. You've started listening to him and allowed him a larger comfort zone by not holding and confining him before a jump. As a result, he's been much much better about going over. So, in effect, you've showed him that going over isnt a scary/bad thing. He's begining to understand what you want (go over) and is no longer confused by the mixed signals.

If it were me, I'd tell all these people that you are re-training your horse and are only concerned with his confidence & actually taking the jump. Tell them the polish will come later.

So, as your horse begins to understand what you are requiring of him, he'll settle more in his work and then you can begin asking for something new - asking him to go slower. Its a gradual building block. You can't just hop on and ride like he's a completely trained horse. Thats what lesson horses/school masters are for

One step at a time. Always mindful of your horses comfort zone...

[pipkin]

It think you should ignore that guy who told you to slow down! I bet if he hadn't worried you, (which made you try and slow him down) you would of got a clear round! If he always seems to get the write striding and never refuses then you can't be doing anything wrong really! I would love to ride a horse that never refused and always got the right striding, don't take it for granted hehe When you watch top show jumpers, the horses always speed up 3 or 4 strides before the jumps, probably just to make sure they get them selves over it, and prehaps that is what your horse is trying to do! Good look with it
Julia x x x

[DITZ]

I think you are all right guys, I mean he's an old horse who's just learnt to jump. He comes with a lot of baggage not a clean sheet to work on and I can only try and work with him. When I work against him and try and bully him into something it doesnt work. He has to be ridden from the head downwards if you know what I mean. Its just difficult to tell someone you know better when you dont think you do. Most people know more than me

The one thing I did take away from the experience was that I need to make my jumps at home higher and a lot scarier because if either one of us is going to bottle its invariably me. I reckon I made a fatal mistake in the first round by chickening out of a couple of the jumps and had to turn him away. Not surprisingly it was these he then refused later.

[Tootsie4U]

Originally posted by DITZ
Its just difficult to tell someone you know better when you dont think you do. Most people know more than me

Same here. I understand where you're coming from. Just try to remember this; if you dont have a willing partner, you dont have much. Only you know your horse and what makes him tick. Listen to him and ride accordingly. You've already crossed a big hurdle - you'll get there

[Evol_or_revert]

Hey, Mostly it sounds like a little bit of schooling may help. And as you said you are both only learning so it will all come with time.

Do lots of flat work to get his balance. Circles etc

Have you tryed any grids? Grids require balance and may teach him to think about each jump and slow down. Just add them in to part of your schooling a few times a week, nothing hard yet! Dont try and slow him down keep them low and let him work it out for himself.

but in the end it all depends on the horse, my mate has a lovely horse, they schooled it for many many hours, but she will still very gladly come in to 1.10m jump backwards then spin round last second and clear it lol. she is fun to round sounds a bit like your horse, you can ride around at the walk point her at a jump 3 strides away and she goes for it full speed lol.

Gud luck, main thing is having fun!!!!!

[DITZ]

I went out and bought the book 101 Jumping exercises at the weekend and I'm going to start with that. Theres lots of grids in that!

I think the biggest problem we have is the rider When I feel like we are going fast I think 'oh my God we could have a nasty accident if he refused now' and I have in my head that unless I have set him up just right then he will put in a nasty stop and I will come over his head and thats when I start to try and hold him back. The reality is that he has never ever done that and he will jump anything provided I am commited.

My biggest problem in confidence and I know I tense up in front of any fence that looks big especially doubles because when he is going fast I *think* he will crash into the second one. Never has done, so really dumb again.

When I practice at home I am going to concentrate on doing doubles to get over my apprehension. I'm also going to start making my fences higher at home so that when I get in the ring I know I can do the height I am doing.

Got the school booked tonight so wish me luck!

[CityGirl]

The Linda Allen book is brilliant!! We use it as a basis for training exercises all the time. I've gotten a chance to "speak" with her via email a few times & have the utmost respect for her. I really find her exercises helpful in teaching how to set & maintain impulsion, pace, etc.

[DITZ]

Yes its a great book I used it last night. I figure that instead of paying £15 for an instructor + £10 for school hire I will take my son along to put poles up and go from the book.

So, lastnight I did the straightness excercise which was trot poles + 2 jumps 1 canter stride apart then 1 upright 4 strides away.

I found it really useful as my horse clearly has longer strides than the average as I found that the 1 canter stride was not quite long enough. I'm glad I figured that out as it means I can work on shortening him up (this could be whats causing him to panic in the ring).

It also highlighted that we really need to work on our doubles. When I upped the height (to about 2'6) we began to struggle.

BUT the last fence I got up to 3ft and he was taking it beautifully without rushing at all.

So if anyone can deduce anything more from this than I have thought of let me know.

I think my next step is to do it work on doubles but cant decide whether to increase the distance and work on height and slowly reduce the distance or keep the heights low and reduce the distance gradually.

[Waikato Valuta]

That book is fantastic. I love it and use it all the time. We dont have many jumps so i only do the smaller ones but they have helps me take my horse from a trot at a tiny cross rail and refuse to catering 2 foot courses.

It's realy helped both of our confidences.