Long reining a Parelli trained horse

[shelby]

I have a level 2 Parelli trained horse. I would like to long rein her as she isnt very brave unless I am standing beside her. I can send her (Squeeze game) over/under/through most things, but if 'mum' isnt there, she isnt nearly as brave!

My problem is, as soon as I get behind her, and try to drive her forward, she yields her hind quarters as she has been taught to do, (albeit from the side.) I dont have anyone to lead her initially, so am at a bit of a loss as to what to do without loosing what I already have!

Any ideas??

[Yann]

Are you focussing on the hindquarters when you're asking her to move off? Could you try standing off to the side and slightly behind her with the outside line round her quarters and then ask her to move off by looking her in the eye and sending a bit of energy down the lines? If she tries to yield use the line to block her and up the energy a bit more, it should always be focussed ahead of the shoulder to send off successfully. I was shown how to long line alongside the horse rather than behind it, the only time I would stand directly behind is if I'm asking for reinback. It keeps you more visible to the horse so you can use body language and having the line round the hocks can encourage them to step under more.

[Crystal Fire]

I think, like Yann, that if she's yielding her hindquarters for you then that is where your focus is. I seem to remember a thing in PNH called "friendly reins" where you tie the 22ft line in a loop and send the horse forward while you steer from behind, so the Parelli training shouldn't stop you. (Parelli level 2 horses should have no problems with a person close to their bum, but take nothing for granted ).
I'd just send her forward from where ever it works, and then very gradually work on doing it from further and further back. You must keep your focus where you want to be going though, and if you are sure you are asking forwards then persist through whatever else she offers you until she gives you a step in the right direction. Then quit, give her some thinking time and start again. If you quit in confusion because she is coming in to you, or round you or whatever, all you will do is teach her the wrong thing. If you quit she will think she's done the right thing. You don't need to be tough, just consistent.

[Chablis]

Originally Posted by shelby

I have a level 2 Parelli trained horse. I would like to long rein her as she isnt very brave unless I am standing beside her. I can send her (Squeeze game) over/under/through most things, but if 'mum' isnt there, she isnt nearly as brave!

My problem is, as soon as I get behind her, and try to drive her forward, she yields her hind quarters as she has been taught to do, (albeit from the side.) I dont have anyone to lead her initially, so am at a bit of a loss as to what to do without loosing what I already have!

Any ideas??

Shelby, are you a level 2 grad (I've forgotten) and are experiencing problems in level 3?

I was taught to do what Yann and CF have written (including squeeze game with rub to a halt) and progressed until I can play friendly game standing behind my horse (and throw the rope over from one side to the other - 12ft or 22ft line depending on length of horse) to make sure that the horse wasn't scared. Twirl ropes around etc and not have my horse get worried.

Next was Yo-Yo standing behind with 12ft/22ft lines THEN I progressed to driving forward with one rein and my carrot stick (to correct if needs be) and yep, my horse was asking what I wanted and disengaged to faced me.

I then asked for less ie a step at a time forward (even moved closer to her shoulder then worked my way back behind her), asking her to go with a tap near her rump and rub her to a stop. Stop, start, stop, start.

You need to have a strong focus (ie where you want to go) and also a very good driving game.

Can you drive your horse around 2 witches hats in a figure of eight pattern while standing behind a rope, about 10ft away, on 22ft line?

When I could drive my horse (have her understand) with one rein, at walk, trot and even canter, on line then I progressed to two reins but this is taught in level 3.

Also, before I did any of the above, I had level 2 reasonably solid and had done a lot of extreme friendly game so that my horse didn't get worried at all.

[Skib]

I think Leslie Desmond showed some people how to address and correct ground work responses in horses, that arose from Parelli, including this.
I went to a demo last May in Hampshire and if anyone on this NR list was there, they might be able to pass on what she suggested. I didnt take detailed notes as I dont do Parrelli.
She did say that teaching a lot of yielding led to a fixing of the front feet - which is what you have encountered.
Leslie Desmond is about to do some more demos in the UK, so should be contactable via Amanda Barton. And Amanda herself might rmember.
http://www.amandabarton.co.uk/

[99E]

Well...

Can you drive your horse from zone 3?
You need to sloooowly build her confidence until she is brave enough to explore the world with you in zone3/4/5...

Driving your horse on long reins is (normally) at L3-thing to do. That means: L2 will prepare you for this, and L3 savvy System will teach you How To Do It...

[Crystal Fire]

In a way, if you forget that you've got a Parelli horse, and break this down, it's not that difficult. If you can circle the horse you can send them ahead of you, but to send them straight I'd stay in close and start to walk alongside as they move their feet. Then if they stop in confusion, just lift your rope (in your outside hand of course), focus forwards, and tap with your hand behind the withers, or even back as far as their bum, to ask for forwards. When you get that one straight step forwards rub and relax, but try to avoid allowing them to turn back round to you. So you will start to set up a couple of signals that mean move forward with me. From there it's a matter of getting it going while you are walking beside their girth area, then their hindquarters, then dropping further back, then stepping round to actually walk behind as they go forwards.
Long lining makes steering easy, because you have two ropes. At clinics last year we were working on being able to work them from behind on one rope, and being able to turn them right or left from there, and then do lateral work from there... So once you get this cracked you may find you've found a fascinating new set of stuff to do with your horse

[cvb]

I'm not a parelli purist so seem to end up doing things I "shouldn't"... like long reining

But - the old level 1 included trailer loading, where you sent the horse ahead of you. My trailer loading has always had me ahead of the horse so I figured that if I was going to have some "prior and proper preparation" I had better check that I could "lead from behind"...

so we worked on this in the arena, without a trailer in sight

So when i went to long rein, it all just sort of happened

My understanding is that your "intent" is key - so for example friendly game with carrot stick has a different *intent* to the carrot stick element of "lift it, lead it, swing it, touch it" (or whatever it should be). The horse should be able to tell from your intent whether its friendly, or whether to move

(probably expressing this far too crudely and simplistically and someone will jump on me for it.. )

[LodgeRopes]

We went thru the same thing, well almost :0)
Our solution was really simple. We broke it down into minute individual actions...then it became obvious...we simply went back to basics and re established the go forward or move cue (depends on yr own style of training), ran thru that for a few minutes, then moved rearward and repeated the exercise. we trained to obtain a conditioned response to a specific cue, no matter where we were standing. Go forward meant go forward, once we had movement, the horse responded to the rein (giving to pressure).

If we get stuck, we break down what we are trying to do into little individual actions, we look at the whole process and start re training at the last action the horse understands...then build up from there.

The horse may have been owned by a chronic disengager, we have seen people transfixed on chasing the horse bum. The problem with this type of excess is that the movement tends to be reactive not responsive...there is a big difference.

Shelby, may we ask.....what is the reason for long reining this horse?