deeply depressed

[Steve.R]

Hi Whoa,

I don't know how Pegasus is getting on but your comment certainly rings true for Rupert, I bought him last Feb and he is just about settling properly now.

Chapsi - how is Pegasus getting on? Is he still improving?
Good luck you sound like you are winning

Esther

[chapsi]

Esther,

I wish I could say that. Some days I feel totally unhappy and let down.
For at least 2 years, after doing a "positive thinking course" I stopped having depressions. With Pegasus they're back.
Winter is around the corner. It gets night really early and consequently I can only ride/lunge/groom him at the weekend.
However, not a day goes by that I don't go to the yard and visit him. Do you think he cares? No, why should he? It's just me...
His ears get pinned soon as I walk towards him... he is only interested if I bring any carrots (I repeat, I don't feed him by hand). He allows me/tolerates me to stroke his muzzle, occasionally a quick head rub, and sometimes threatnens to bite.
When I bring him out for grooming, he is awkward; threatning to bite, refusing to have his hooves cleaned and lately he reverted to his nasty old habit of swinging his hind pinning me against the wall.
Usually, if I am handling him I always have a "bodygard" around, just in case he swallows me!
This week he already bit somebody (nothing serious), just the new groom when he collected him from the field. I suppose he was introducing himself to this new comer.

[lisae]

perhaps rocketman's advice at the beginning of this thread is the best after all.....another horse may be out there, waiting to be a perfect match for you. Perhaps you could look around for a buyer and Pegasus would find a good situation, too! Just a thought for you, things will get better.

[chapsi]

I am a realistic person. A buyer? Who in their right mind would buy a biter?
Tuff. Hard luck, but I am stuck with him. Unless I call the slaughterman... Sorry, I can't do it. Besides, I am vegetarian.
On moral grounds I couldn't lie about his vice to prostective buyers, nor could I sell him for meat or to the gipsies.

[cvb]

what is he like with other horses ? My mother's pony puts his ears back when he thinks there is food on the way. But he does not actually mean anything by it - it just looks ugly. Almost like a foal submission thing that he never quite grew out of.

Just wondered whether a lack of horsey social skills might be behind some of the face pulling and other antics ?

If you have done positive thinking courses, is there something you can use like focusing on whatever good things you can find (e.g. very athletic, strong minded etc).

Even when Fifi's being a madam, I just have to watch her to fall in love all over again - I think she's the one horse I could own even if I could not ride again, and that is saying something.

[chapsi]

I think she's the one horse I could own even if I could not ride again, and that is saying something.

Thanks CVB,
It's nice to read cheerful and encouraging words. Yes, I can think of lots of good points about my horse, and should I ever have to give up on him, I'll still keep him.
Well, his ears pinned are in a way related to his expectation and demand of food, but not totally. He is just very grumpy with me.
Yes, he is nerve recking, difficult to handle (he is not rude, in fact his manners are reasonable) because of his intimidatory behaviour.
With other horses he plays it according to the situations. He is "street wise"; in the arena during lessons he is very good, never interferes with other horses, he keeps himself to himself. When he stands besides other horses in the grooming area, he is curious and looks around, but never attempted to kick the others. However, if he is loose, he loves to challenge the others and to provoque them, in particular if they are tied or in their boxes. In those moments, he patrols the field, running like a raven lunatic or troting with his tail in the air, charging like a steam engine. Butter wouldn't melt in his mouth...
I find Pegasus magnificent, strong, healthy, the nicest looking horse of the yard. I love his sweet scent and his beautiful thick black mane. He is sensible and sound to ride. When he wants to, he can be cooperative (like lowering his head to put on the bridle or to comb his mane) and gentle. He is intelligent and very alert. He is determined and strong minded. I could find other good points, but then the list would be too long.

[Peace]

lately he reverted to his nasty old habit of swinging his hind pinning me against the wall.

Chapsi, I think you've done a lot of good with this horse, and I'm not a fan of rough methods, by any means. But some things are just not done, and I think this pinning you to the wall is one of them.

I really think this situation calls for you to do whatever is necessary to stop this behavior! You could be hurt!

[rocketman]

Chapsi -

There's always a buyer out there who'll take a chance on a nice horse, albeit with some problems. Not only gypsies are in the business of buying and selling. I have often purchased a horse to train and improve for the purpose of selling it for profit. There's nothing wrong with that if you do a proper job in between and end up with a good horse to sell. Of course, that buyer will want the horse for probably less than you paid for it, to leave room for the cost of keeping it during the retraining, so that there is room for a profit (sometimes).

Years ago I swapped horses with a man who had been fairly upfront about the vices of the horse he was exchanging. He had a 17 hand heavyweight 8 year old gelding that he admitted was dangerous both ends. This horse had picked him up by the shoulder with his teeth and tossed him 20 feet across the paddock. He didn't tell me that he was nappy (baulky) and reared up like an oak tree, but I suspected it when I tried him out. Since he had one jump in a field out of sight of the house (he didn't come out), I didn't tell him how high his evil brute of a horse could jump. I had worked my way up until the pole was balance on top of the full size wings and the horse just popped back and forth over it (I put it back down to 2' before I left to hide the evidence.)

I never cured the rearing problem completely, but he never bit me after the time he got me in the middle of my back (wearing a brand new silk shirt when silk was still expensive) and I immediately retaliated by attacking him in his box with the yard broom (I never managed to strike him, but he knew I was mad!)

After successfully competing him for a year (50% winning, 50% rearing)(he never refused a jump but he would sometimes refuse to go past a spot on the ground), I showed him to a professional dealer (he was never going to be an amateur ride). I told him about the rearing and biting, but only after jumping him around a 5'3" course to demonstrate his good point (singular) first. He had to have him then, regardless of the accompanying faults.

When you bought your horse, he was in poor condition. I'll bet you have him looking superb by now. Your horse must have many good points (plural) and only one grievous fault. There is always someone who will take a risk. You do have an alternative to being at risk yourself and supporting this miscreant into his dotage.

Remember, one man's trash is another man's treasure. He might even be happier and more successful with a stronger and more assertive person.

[Sidesaddlelady]

It's not your fault. You were taken for a ride by a seller who recognised a novice when s/he saw one and you fell into the novice's pit of feeling sorry for a poor, neglected looking horse. This is clearly not the horse for you and it knows it! It is possible, if you have endless time, patience and money for professional help, to go back to the beginning and sort this out but do you want to? This is the first question you have to ask yourself. Or would it be kinder to all concerned, including the horse, to sell him on to someone with more experience who will love him and be able to do something with him? I tend to side with Rocketman on this (Gosh, Rocketman, there's a turn up for the books!) I'm sure you'd be happier with a horse who is more suited to you. My grandfather, who was a great horseman and used Monty Roberts-type methods half a century before Mr Roberts invented them, used to say there were very few dyed-in-the-wool evil horses, only unskilled, badly matched or incompetent owners (and I am not putting you in this last category). If you are going to sell him find a dealer in your area with a good reputation for pairing buyers with suitable horses, rather than selling privately. You need to do the best for this poor animal or he will end up at the auctions destined for a petfood can. Many dealers will do "part-exchange" if you want to buy another horse. What ever you do please remember that at the moment this horse is a danger to you.

[CityGirl]

Chapsi:
What a long road you've had. Perhaps Rocketman is right, maybe it is time to find Pegasus a new owner & you to find a new horse that will respond to you. It sounds like you have done a wonderful job conditioning Pegasus, I'm sure there is somene out there (an experienced trainer, etc) who would love to own him & work out his problems.
Somewhere out there, there is a horse out there who would be a perfect match for you & what you're looking for. Maybe you could ask around your stable & see if anyone a)knows someone who would be interested in Pegasus and b)could reccomend a nice, gentle horse for you.
Good luck with whatever you decide. At the end of the day, I'm sure it will work out for you.

[chapsi]

Time does surely fly. I started this thread just over 3 months ago. Since then, several weeks have gone by. A lot has happened, some things have improved, other didn't, but on the whole we are both getting by.
At the moment I am working on two issues: trying to loose my fear of the horse; accepting him as he is, with no further expectations. Its all part of my frame of mind, that way I won't get so desappointed.
A few days ago he bit my husband on the leg, very swiftly, discreetly... my husband realised that had been bit (obviously nothing serious), as the horse flung his head as high as possible, as if to avoid a forth coming punishment. Pegasus does it to any new comer that comes too close, as a warning "watch your step, I'm here".
With me, he is getting overtly intimidating to bite, but so far he is just bluffing. I ignore him, carry on and he stops. I get the feeling that this getting like a kind of game to him. The truth is, he hasn't bit me for well over a month, which breaks the record
Anyway, his condition is improving every day. So, here are 3 moments:
1. Pegasus the day I decided to buy him, 5 months ago.

[chapsi]

2. the day he arrived (already in this thread);

3. last week, just 5 months after his arrival.

My boy is beautiful. I am very proud of him. In spite of everything I'll keep trying, I believe he is a good horse, but I must earn him.

[galadriel]

Wow, a month of no biting? (or at least no connecting with you as a target ) You're getting somewhere, congrats

He is truly lovely.

[Bev Heron]

What beatiful, intelligent eyes he has. I'm glad you're giving eachother another chance.

[Emma_G_NZ]

Chapsi, I shouldnt really be on this forum, but the change of condition is amazing... He looks really good, and I would be very proud of that!

[Tina J]

You deserve to feel very proud of yourself - both for his massive improvement in condition, and for your perseverance. Good luck.

[Tumbleweed]

Chapsi, no wonder you bought him, I would have as well. It is not just his poor condition, it is the look in his eyes.

CONGRATULATIONS you have made such a difference to him, and have achieved so much. Look at thoses and his body language, he is a very happy horse, keep going you are on the right track. When you have had him for a year, you will be able to look back at this thread and see the improvement.

WELL DONE

Margaret

[chapsi]

Thank you everybody.
I know we are all bias when it comes down to our horses, but I am very proud of mine. He is so beautiful that I couldn't part with him. In fact, deep down I admire his strong personality... When I watch him running, charging in the field it's a mighty vision, sheer horse power.
Yes, as Tumbleweed pointed out, I also bought him not because I felt sorry for him, but because of his eyes and his thick and long black mane (I dare to say, I find it very "sensual").
Bev, he is extremely intelligent and alert, perhaps too much in fact, as those qualities have reverted against me, he is always devising ways to "keep me under his thumb".
I just hope that one day he'll give me his affection too. I agree that there will be a time, when we'll both have overcome our malajustments and I'll look back; then I'll have a lot to thank this horse for, as he would have taught me a lot.

[LindaAd]

Chapsi, he's beautiful and you're doing wonders with him. He looks as if he was really badly treated and half starved - no wonder he's grumpy. It takes ages, maybe years, for a horse to get over something like that.

[Tumbleweed]

I just hope that one day he'll give me his affection too

Chapsi,

Looking at the last pictures, I think he already does

Margaret