why is it so difficult for horse enthuasists to learn basic horse care for free

laceyfreckle · #1 25th Feb 2008, 04:20 PM

ok, this is something i've especially noticed in the last few years.

There are a LOT of people recently who, some by their own admission have far more riding knowledge then basic horse care knowledge.

Why is it you can ride at a riding school for 3 years or so and STILL not know how to groom or tack up

OK I KNOW some of the answer is insurance ........some RS CAN'T let you which is so sad in my opinion and i know some of it is due to lack of time.

But recently i do believe a little bit of it is because RS just expect you to go on full livery or something or becuase riders can't be bothered to put the extra effort in.

When i learnt to ride i think it was by lesson two i got taught how to check my girth and do my own stirrups and by lesson 3/4 i was taught how to untack and tack up on my own. In fact from what i can remember it was EXPECTED you would turn up 15mins before your lesson started, brush over, tack up and meet everyone in the manage.and it was EXPECTED you'd untack or leave the pony with tack correctly secured and girth loosened after. In fact i can remember if you didn't you were really looked down on.

Anyway it also used to be RS especially (and other equine places) loved you to go and help even if it was just leading those in a L/R class and because of that your confidence grew. To start with i never remembered paying ANYTHING to learn stable and horse management and i don't remember getting free rides for it either until i got good enough to be a help and not a hindrance

Anyway i noticed that most people now feel awkward for helping with their RS pony as it is made noted that they don't really want you to. And because of this there now seems to be a influx of people buying/sharing/loaning horses that have very little 'real' experience even though they can be competent riders. I have mentored people in the past and don't mind doing so but it always bears the question .......where are all the people that helped me learn for free gone?? and how can people that ride so well know so little about how to care for one.

Also i know someone will say there's the Horse owners certificates and the BHS and PC stages but WHY should you have to pay to go on a course? tbh i find such courses quite restrictive as to course content and examination and as to the days and times they're held.

What's so bad about learning on the job before getting your own horse???? And why are so many riders (adults and children) now of the opinion that they don't NEED to do the other stuff if they can pay someone else to and they can still be really good riders.....to me part of being a good rider is learning about the horse as a whole animal and about its needs and how it works/ticks.

grrrr RANT over......(isn't a rant at any one organisation or person in particular just dismayed as to how society has become at times)

FelineWolf · #2 25th Feb 2008, 04:33 PM

I know exactly what you mean.
At my old RS it was expected for you to show up 10mins early to tack up your horse (however, I would note it wasn't till I started working at another yard that I learnt the importance of picking feet

I began bringing my own hoof pick so I could quickly do their feet before I rode)
I was amazed when I told the people where I work that we had to tack up ourselves: they looked at me like I was mad

seriously, they seemed to think it was ludicrous.

At my new RS when i arrive usually the horse is tied up with saddle on under a stable rug and bridle hung up outside. It's our responsibility to un-rug and bridle the horse, then when our lesson is finished (ours is the last in the day, we finish at 7pm) we have to untack, put the tack away, rug up the horse and we pick out the poos and wet bedding quickly aswell (though I've never been told to do that, we just do it lol).
Oh, also after our lesson we pick out the horses' hooves outside the school so the sand from their hooves can be swept straight back into the school and isn't dragged into their stables

But you're right, it shouldn't be so expensive to learn horse care. It seems that for the most part stables will only teach you horse care if you pay to do something like "Pony for a day" certainly I can't remember ever being encouraged to help out on a voluntary basis.
Even when I hung around my old RS on a saturday afternoon (had to wait for my sister's lesson to finish) the most I ever really did was help lead in some of the kiddy lessons, they never taught me to do anything much in the way of horse care.

Morganna · #3 25th Feb 2008, 04:41 PM

My yard must be an exception to the rule then. Once they knew I could tack up on my own it was left to me to groom, tack up and pick feet before lesson and remove tack and rug up when I was done. Our YO was only too happy to let me chip in and help with the mucking out and turning out/bringing in and other yard stuff when I asked if I could help out just to learn more. I think it's really important to learn these things, and our yard do "Own A Pony" days in the school holidays which granted they need to pay for, but are really good learning experiences for the kids.

Most of the horses on our yard are tacked up and ready to go for a lesson, but they will let you do it yourself if they are confident that you know what you are doing and that the horse is easily tacked up. And they are always happy to let people volunteer around the yard.

laceyfreckle · #4 25th Feb 2008, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morganna

My yard must be an exception to the rule then. Once they knew I could tack up on my own it was left to me to groom, tack up and pick feet before lesson and remove tack and rug up when I was done. Our YO was only too happy to let me chip in and help with the mucking out and turning out/bringing in and other yard stuff when I asked if I could help out just to learn more. I think it's really important to learn these things, and our yard do "Own A Pony" days in the school holidays which granted they need to pay for, but are really good learning experiences for the kids.

Most of the horses on our yard are tacked up and ready to go for a lesson, but they will let you do it yourself if they are confident that you know what you are doing and that the horse is easily tacked up. And they are always happy to let people volunteer around the yard.

AAAh yes but it sounds like you either have to go on a own a pony day or know how to tack up already to be able to do it generally (might be wrong, correct me if i am)

cat_burglar31 · #5 25th Feb 2008, 04:46 PM

at the rs that i ride at when i'm in cardiff everyone is expected to tack up their horses before the lesson as soon as they reach the 3rd level class (cantering confidently) Us in the higher classes sometimes get told off if we bring a muddy horse into the school or leave the wet rugs in a heap on the stable floor. But I think you are right because i've been to a few different riding schools and few dont automatically have my horse ready for me when i arrive

doris · #6 25th Feb 2008, 04:47 PM

Some of the reason why riding schools may not encourage horse care unless it is part of the horse owners certificate course may be insurance. I don't know, but maybe the insurance covers riding lessons specifically, and not stable work? Insurance now is sometimes very specific in its wording. Maybe there is someone who manages or owns or teaches at a riding school on the forum who could give more information. Maybe there isn't the staff to actually be there to teach tacking up etc.

I always learnt a certain amount at riding schools in the past (many years ago now), and used to help some people with ponies when I was about 12 and 13 years old. But that was in the days before the 'compensation culture' kicked in and now you just have to be so careful.

I think it's a shame that there are probably many horse owners that could know much more that they do - a classic example was the young lady that posted a photo of herself on one forum proudly displaying her skills riding with a pelham bit. The horse was plainly uncomfortable and she had the bit in upside down!

I've done the Horse Owners 1 & 2 and I think they give a pretty good grounding for the basics - but I do think the onus is on the horse owner to ensure that they learn in whatever way possible whether they have to pay or not.

angelofages · #7 25th Feb 2008, 04:48 PM

At my RS you can tack up, it all depends if one of the workers has got there first. At the end of the lesson we do untack, rug up etc. As for anything more though you have to pay, and some of the options cost more than a riding lesson, and doesn't even lead to any sort of BHS qualifications

So yeah, I've been looking to share with the hope of finding someone who'd help teach me. I really don't want to end up a hopeless horse owner one day.

laceyfreckle · #8 25th Feb 2008, 04:50 PM

you see i've recently met 'exerienced' horse owners/riders that

* don't know you shouldn't feed dry sugarbeet
* Can't tell the difference between hay and haylage
* Don't know how to pick up/out feet properly and safely
* Can't tack up/untack correctly
* Can't fasten cross surcingles on a rug correctly
* Can't tell when they should use a turnout/stable/cooler and what they look like.
* Can't muck out properly without removing the whole bed
* Can't tie a half decent quick release knot.....that releases.

teh list goes on..........(maybe its just the mood i'm in) I have no problem with helping teach (without criticsm) those that want to learn but it still amazes me most things are now done for people

Pink's lady · #9 25th Feb 2008, 04:51 PM

Because, to be frankly honest, many riding schools are crap! There are the occasionaly good riding school about but there are some awful ones!

On top of that you don't get much real-life horse experience in a riding school unless you're lucky - it's a very false enviroment compared to keeping your own horse DIY:

You don't get a chance to see things like laminitis and if you do you are very unlike to be told the why and what for of it, how it happened and all the options of how to deal with it. Same for cuts and abcesses. And just about everything else.

You learn through practical experience more than theory and when it's not your horse or you're not involved in their daily decisions (which aren't the same things as their daily care) you don't learn much. If you own or loan the horse YOU have to decided on when and why they are wormed, and what to do before and after. How much grass they get and how to ensure it. What rugs to choose to put on and why. There are a whole miriade of small decisions like that, that happen everyday, that horse owners do automatically but if you're just on the side lines you miss out on.

At a riding school you don't get a chance to think for yourself and, from those thoughts, create a plan. You get TOLD that the horse is lame (sure, you probably are show how to spot it afterwards but you aren't the one who brought in in from the field and thought ..hummm), you get TOLD the horse is fed this this and this. You may ask why but you didn't have to decided on it in the first place (and have to choose from the million and one feed out there!)

You will eventually pick up those decisions as you go along but that can take years and years. A quicker way is to share, when you have more input into the horse but there are so many people out there who are far too precious about their horses and 'mine, mine, mine' to allowed someone to share.

And then there are just some people who are useless

- brodie's old sharer was an example. Really nice girl but not 'horsey'. She shared him for well over a year but still had no idea why he was fed what he was and what the other options were. Why he was rugged and when. Why he went into restricted grazing and how to manange it. How to spot he was lame (although she could see it after I'd pointed it out) and what to do about it. Ect etc etc. She was shown as she went along but never made the next step to questioning it for herself.

LaurenEff · #10 25th Feb 2008, 04:51 PM

I honestly wish we had to tack, rug, or untack. I can so these things but im not allowed to do anything, and when i asked about volunteering, they said that they had no vaccancies for helpers but every time ive been, ive never seen a helper...

puzzles · #11 25th Feb 2008, 04:57 PM

Tell me about it!

It akes me appreciate being left in charge of a whole yard aged just 13 with my twin when the owner oppped down to the opub for the evening (no, not last century - 3 1/2 years ago). We rode bareback (2 per pony) jumping, sneakily and with permission. We would do all sorts of things and noone batted an eyelash before insurance rand regulations tightened. :-(
I rexperienced some of the best times of my life there. Nowadays, when the yard girls come over to help me when I'm getting on to ride, etc, I just fele like screaming "I CAN DO IT MYSELF THANK YOU" "i did work at a yard for 2 1/2 years ... "

Even now, there are poeple owning horses who don't seme to have a clue, especially 1st time owners ...

x

Morganna · #12 25th Feb 2008, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laceyfreckle

AAAh yes but it sounds like you either have to go on a own a pony day or know how to tack up already to be able to do it generally (might be wrong, correct me if i am)

If they are asked, they will happily take the time to show you how to tack up and get ready for your lesson and they are happy to let people do that before their lesson if they want to. It's a very laid back friendly yard and there is always someone who is happy to show someone how to do stuff.

I do find though that, generally speaking, not a lot of people who come to our yard purely for lessons actually want to be instructed in tacking up - they come, they ride, they leave and they seem quite happy with that.

Anro · #13 25th Feb 2008, 05:03 PM

At the riding school I went to we usualy didnt have to tack up (unless they were running a bit late) but usualy ask us to put them in the stable and if they wated us to untack or leave on the tack.

puzzles · #14 25th Feb 2008, 05:05 PM

... Plus I can't stand the way some people just get on, ride, then get off again - if they are riding the hrose, they have a duty to tack and untack, pick feed, brush off etc ... why not??!! It saves the yard a bit of work!

x

horsesforever · #15 25th Feb 2008, 05:15 PM

I agree, and it is a big shame. At my first RS we were encouraged to help as much as possible but when I went for lessons at a new one, I was asked "Did I need help with my girth?" And "Are you sure you're okay to do up a flash?" even though I'd been riding years and easily knew how to tack up just as well as the staff. At the end of the lesson the horse was literally snatched out of my hands. It really does depend on the individual RS.

I do also agree with Pink's Lady about getting "real life experience". I helped at riding schools from the age of 9-15 and thought of myself as pretty experienced in horse care. Then I got my first share and boy I had a learning curve. There was no one to spoon feed me and I had to learn to decide things for myself and bloody well get on with it! It wasnt that I didnt know anything, its just that I had never "been in charge" and had to think about things like hm, its quite cold...does he need a rug? Or hm, Ive just brought him in but didn't realize his friend would go mental without him. What to do now?! Or hm, how to worm??! These are very basic examples but the type of things you dont normally have to cope with in an RS environment. Now, I own a horse and make these types of descions happily and easily. I have confidence in my own judgement but it came from sharing and getting that REAL experience.

But total novices really should have access to learning basic horsecare for free. Yes sharing is a better option before owning but we all have to start somewhere! And no one would take you on to share if you couldnt tack up etc.

eml · #16 25th Feb 2008, 05:18 PM

I am sure I am not that unusual and yes in my RS everyone learns how to brushover and tack up and rug up horses and the adults always get their own horses ready. I will not have 'get on get off and go ' riders, last ride of the day helps with evening hays as well. ...Slave driver!

We also run two free schemes.

Stable Helpers Club for teenagers usually 11-16ish where they learn everything about horsecare and have a weekly special club ride/training session in exchange for helping with beginners classes.

Adults do a free NVQ in exchange for doing yard work at weekends and odd hours in the evening, great for me gets jobs like tack cleaning, mane pulling, removing winter coats etc., great for them they get a qualification and have some social time, theory lectures accompanied by wine!

We have never had any issues over insurance with these schemes however there is always someone around supervising.

doris · #17 25th Feb 2008, 05:20 PM

I obvously come into contact with lots of horse owners and I always think they probably know more than me, and some of them do, but I'm often surprised that they don't know things that I take for granted that all horse owners should know.

Mehitabel · #18 25th Feb 2008, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by horsesforever

But total novices really should have access to learning basic horsecare for free.

why?

should they have riding lessons for free as well? horse care knowledge is just the same as riding knowledge, and nobody suggests novice riders ought to get that for free so they can go on and get their own horse.

we do horse care days, we have a 'groom's club' that covers all of this stuff that involves tuition in daily care of a horse, but it's not free. why should it be?

angelofages · #19 25th Feb 2008, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eml

I am sure I am not that unusual and yes in my RS everyone learns how to brushover and tack up and rug up horses and the adults always get their own horses ready. I will not have 'get on get off and go ' riders, last ride of the day helps with evening hays as well. ...Slave driver!

We also run two free schemes.

Stable Helpers Club for teenagers usually 11-16ish where they learn everything about horsecare and have a weekly special club ride/training session in exchange for helping with beginners classes.

Adults do a free NVQ in exchange for doing yard work at weekends and odd hours in the evening, great for me gets jobs like tack cleaning, mane pulling, removing winter coats etc., great for them they get a qualification and have some social time, theory lectures accompanied by wine!

We have never had any issues over insurance with these schemes however there is always someone around supervising.

You really do run a dream riding school, why can't they all be like yours?!

Joyscarer · #20 25th Feb 2008, 05:32 PM

When I first started looking into trying to learn a bit about horse care before I got Joy on part loan and evenetually bought there wasn't the option to do much at the school she was at.

I did ask at the Naval Riding School and was told that they normally charge for this but I could come and help out 'for free' if I could commit to a whole morning at a time.

The RS nearest to me were fantastic. I was allowed to tack up, untack and wash off as required but then they knew I had my own horse (this was last year when I returned to lessons for confidence issues).

Being allowed to help out isn't normal in my area and most would charge.

What I also found difficult pre-Joy was that there were pony club days/weeks for youngsters but nothing for adults