for my cob-wintec wide or thorowgood t6? which should i get-help!

Hello,

Refering to my previous thread:
http://www.newrider.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=139740

I have a saddler coming tomorrow. But please, I need your experiences thoughts and opinions, which one do i go for-the wintec wide for the cobs, (would one of these fit her or does it still have the banana shape affect?) or the thorowgood cob t6 - my friends mum is a saddle fitter and doesnt like thorowgoods, which is why im in this dilema! Any opinions highly appreciated as have saddle man(someone different who stocks thorowgoods) coming tomorrow!

[Yummymummy]

I would go for the thorowgood, I had one and it was very comfy whereas the wintec wide was the most uncomfortable thing i have ever had to ride in.

But at the end of the day its what fits your horse and your arse that matters. Try them both out and see which you prefer.

Do you know why your friend's mum doesn't like Thorowgoods?

We use the T6 Jill Thomas Endurance saddles here on cobs and we find they suit our purposes.

You have to be careful not to buy them too wide (as they do settle in a bit over the first few rides), although the gullet change system and the fish inserts make the new ones much more accomodating, in terms of fitting, as your horse changes shape.

They are also more stable than they used to be owing to the positioning of the girth straps, having a four point option.

The endurance model has a more open gullet right along its length, keeping weight off the spine, and the panels are wider and longer than some of the others which helps with weight distribution.

We find that our cobs go very well in them hacking out four/five days a week and some pleasure rides.

I'm not sure yet, I have asked her, she did say this however:

"Mother says wintec have a cob saddle now that has a point strap and it's made specifically for cobby types, got interchangeable gullet etc, and the cair panel system which prevents pressure points, so that might be good for you. Mum has got some second hand and new saddles and does saddle checks if you are interested but she doesn't stock thorowgoods - she doesn't like them"

also just been searching forumns and found a post by poohsmate - "if i had to use a synthetic saddle and given a choice i would go for the thorogood over a wintec everytime. i would not put a wintec on a rocking horse...and there is no way one will ever touch my horses back.... as an equine therapist iv'e seen what they can do..."

I think that settles it in my head, but would still appreciate everyones opinion

[Pink's lady]

I like the Wintec Wides for non-cob horses, and for narrower cobs. A Wintec Wide fitted with a wide (red) gullet is really quite a sensible saddle and is a nice fit on many non-cob horses (the red wide gullet is really quite narrow and a 'medium' equivelent in leather saddles) They are such a better design than the 500/2000, but they still haven't got it right for wide flat cobs yet - when they get wider (xwide+) they start to curve, like the 500/2000 does.

The point strap and balance strap can be a mixed blessing. They are very good at keeping the saddle back (lines up the girth groove better) but they drag the saddle down onto their shoulders. The balance strap holds the back down but drags the saddle forwards.

Cair is also not all that great. It's not particularly forgiving and is hard to adjust for a perfect fit. With decent flocking it beds down into the horses shape quickly and stays there. Cair springs back into shape each time and pressure is needed to reform it back to the horses back with every stride. It's nothing like Flair, which is very soft.

Wintecs come in a flocked version but the flocking is quite frankly crap. Thorowgood's flocking isn't much better either. None are in synthetic saddles. It will need reflocked within a year and packs down really really hard and often lumpy.

It's a shame they're not great though - they are sooooo comfortable to ride in!

Not sure why your friends mum doesn't like thorowgoods, other than the panels at the back are sometimes really narrow. That may have improved with the newer designs. The tree is a much better design, although the flocking collapses at the front quickly and needs topping up with in the first couple of months usually.

No offence to your friends mum but if she says 'that have a cob saddle now' she's a little behind the times - the wintec wide has been out for years now! It's not exactly new! If she's a bit behind times she may not realise the thorowgoods also come with changable gullets, point straps and a cob tree I would be interested to know why she doesn't like thorowgood saddles - I've yet to met anyone who hates then like the wintec is hated

thanks again pinks lady-lifesaver! the man i have coming tomo is only fitting for thorowgood *i think* so was a bit concerned when i heard about the wintec, so thought id ask my nr pals again and again they save me! so stick with the thorowgood? im going to get the t6, not the t4. hes coming tomorrow at 2, il be looking closely at what he does, feeling her back, anything else i should look out for?

[Pink's lady]

I've got leather saddles now so am a bit out of the loop with the new thorowgood designs.

It would be worth spending this evening researching saddle fit so you can ask senible questions when he comes.

He should look at her back and feel for any soreness. He should view her from behind to check for even shoulder development (if he doesn't mention you think 'x shoulder is bigger' so he does!) He should also look at your wintec on her, even if just to confirm it doesn't fit.

When he gets the potential saddle out, ask in an innocent voice how you check the tree and the panels are symetrical - say you heard a friend who bought a brand new saddle and the panels were on squint. He should then turn the saddle upside down and view it from behind and in front, looking for symetry. He should also run his hands down the panels checking from lumps and dips in the flocking. They are both really basic things to check but many saddlers don't bother.

He'll then put it on her. He should check the width (look at it from the front and feel down under the points, check wither clearance), run his hand under the panels front to back, and look at the saddle from behind. And spent time scruntinising the balance from the side, whilst also checking the saddle isn't too long for her. At that point innocently ask how you check balance - if he says the pommel and cantle should be level, run screaming The seat should be flat and balanced - the pommel usually is slightly lower than the cantle.

He should then want to see her with a girth on so he can asses girth groove and which girth straps to use (assuming it's a cob saddle with point and balance strap) - ask what the other straps are for at that point so he actaully does check

Then you'll be asked to get on and have a sit and see what you think. He should ask you about balance and tipping forwards/back.

He'll then should want to see her move in the saddle - how much riding depends on the weather and facilities. If she does have uneven shoulders he should want to see if it sits square, and try it with a shim (under the less developed shoulder, at the front NOT the back) if not.

He should again ask if you feel comfortable, and possibly want to see her work properly in it (and possible jump, so see if it lifts at the back).

It's not rocket science, fitting a saddle, but there are a huge number of realy really bad saddle fitters out there! Be wary!

thanks for that advice, so extremely helpful. I will also do as you suggest and do some research. I 'm not sure what saddles hes bringing tomorrow. he knows im interested in the t6 but said he does not stock all of the shapes/sizes as there are so many so it will take 3 weeks to come

[Joyscarer]

Have pm'd you

btw my new T6 doesn't have fish inserts, it has completely interchangable panels.

Originally Posted by Joyscarer

btw my new T6 doesn't have fish inserts, it has completely interchangable panels.

sorry if this sounds stupid, but is that good? i know the saddler said you could changer it to fit her shap as she changes shap often! also, this sounds obvious but should the saddler bring saddles to try on? I know I am thinking that yes he should definately, but ive never had a new saddle on a horse so dont know what to expect so thought id ask first

[Chukka]

Well for my Clydesdale I actually won a cob gp thorowgood saddle and I love it. Fits so well on him. Have ridden in a wintec one to be honest so cannot comment.

[Joyscarer]

Well the fish inserts go into the front of the saddle roughly where your knee would be making it slightly narrower and can be taken out for a wider fit.

With my T6 saddle the panels - all the shaped padded bits that are in contact with the horse - are completely changeable. This makes the alround fit more tailored to your horse.

Weirdly enough my Welsh d has thoroughbred panels probably because of her lack of muscle.

So on my T6 I get a choice of tree, a choice of saddle type (eg gp, dressage...), a choice of gullet and a choice of panels.

This is one heck of an adjustable saddle and so much more versetile than the Wintec because of all the options. But I would never go so far as to say that it would suit every horse!

So how did you get on today?

well, I was just coming on to post about what happened today, I've learnt so much! the saddler came and felt all over her back. He said he couldnt feel anything bad there and that it hasnt damaged her, but obviously im doing the right thing getting a new saddle. her current saddle is only 16" and as well as the pads being too sloped as we already know, he said its too narrow for her at the front, so its not fitting on her shoulders properly. he had the insert (sorry dont know its name -is it the gullet?) the bit of bent metal anyway, and the xx-wide fitted her, when i say fitted, he rested it on her withers where the pommel would sit. however he said by the time its in the saddle and the flocking there it would be raised off of her so she may just be x-wide as there wasnt much in it. so hes bringing both of those sizes and ordering a saddle inbetween. he said if he ordered a xxlarge wintec hed be given a medium and he would be expected to fit the x wide gullet into a medium saddle

he said he'd show me through changing the size of the saddle (by this i mean gullets and the fish system) and seemed very friendlt and knowledgable. i said to him (from what pinks lady taught me) and the flocking after the first month ...yes will need re filling. so hes ordered it said it could ake 3 weeks but i will have a spanking new t6 cob saddle very soon!


oh and my friends mum who doesnt like thorowgood, apparently no reason just prefers wintecs, shes a wintec stockist too

[Joyscarer]

Woohoo a new saddle

So your one will have the fish in it?

I obviously expect loads of pics of the new saddle and a full report as to how your both get on with it

yes it will have that fish system i also read on here how people like everything on the thorowgoods except the girth straps, well he said they've changed them now, i cant remember what to but they have improved! oh and of course lots of pics for sure!

[Pink's lady]

Sounds good Bet he just loved you, asking lots of questions

Although he says it hasn't damaged her, she probably is still a bit stiff and sore from her old saddle. 3 weeks off will do her the world of good. I would highly recommend not riding her in your wintec (ever again!) and if possible staying off her completely. Long lining and lots of carrot stretches will really help her. She will probably change shape one her backs no longer restricted, so it would be worth trying to get the change under way before he comes to fit your new saddle If you can't not ride than bareback will do her no harm, and will improve you're balance

ETA - 16"? 16"?!! What the hell if she doing with a 16" saddle!? AND how did you fit into it!

hehe yeh loved me asking lots of questions! he was fine about it thought so thats all good, i'll start doing some of those carrot stretches will have to be behind the stable door else she'll be after me, her and food

Originally Posted by Pink's lady

ETA - 16"? 16"?!! What the hell if she doing with a 16" saddle!? AND how did you fit into it!

I never knew how to measure a saddle but thats what he said it was, I'm sure you've seen before but this is me in it it doesnt feel uncomfortable at all

He said her new saddle will be 17"