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  #1  
Old 26th May 2008, 09:55 PM
lorna01 lorna01 is offline
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Veteran judging

Heres a big one for you...

I was in my first veteran class this weekend and got 4th out of 15. Not to bad for a first attempt but my problem is...

I was the only one who showed my pony correctly, (turning the right way etc) And the horse that got 3rd kept kicking its handler. 2nd was dirty and 1st was a kid on our yard who hardly got her pony to trot and didnt very far turned the wrong way as kids do.

Problem...Are manners, turnout and presentation not taken into consideration??

(Just so you all know, my pony has really good conformation and won his arab class in the class before)

Is it maybe because he has just turned 15??

I just dont know, I consider myself to be quite a good all round show rider and handler but Im not sure on what the judges look for in veteran
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  #2  
Old 26th May 2008, 10:03 PM
rtk rtk is offline
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Its the same as every other class I'm afraid, it depends on the judge.

Some judges just judge whats in front of them regardless of age so the 15 year olds will always beat my 32 year old. Some go for the oldest regardless of how well they do.

Good judges will balance age against other things. In affiliated veteran classes they split into 3 age groups and mark each part seperately. So much for turnout and then marks for walk, trot canter etc. I think they also mark for attitude, as in "does the horse want to be here".

I've seen some pretty bad judging at affiliated and some excellent judging at local level so even with the criteria laid down judges dont always get it right.

If my oldie doesn't behave correctly (most of the time actually) I would expect him to be last regardless of whether he's twice the age of the others.
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  #3  
Old 26th May 2008, 10:11 PM
lorna01 lorna01 is offline
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I love showing so much but this sort of malarky realy does put you off doesnt it...
A judge on the same day in a different class, they had to split M&M and she told a girl with us to put her exmoor X into the large breeds section, she then proceeded to place 1st-5th dales or fells with all the others shoved on the end in any order (she also did this to me 2 years ago when I had my sec.D under her)

I think its about time certain people got a good kick up the bottom and to start judging fairly!!!

Thanks for the help XX
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  #4  
Old 27th May 2008, 01:45 PM
highamreb highamreb is offline
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i put a post on here about our weekend showing, it turns out all showing judges seem to be biased, its not how ** turned out its who you know!!!!
oh, dont get me started i have only just calmed down,
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  #5  
Old 27th May 2008, 05:48 PM
rtk rtk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by highamreb View Post
i put a post on here about our weekend showing, it turns out all showing judges seem to be biased, its not how ** turned out its who you know!!!!
oh, dont get me started i have only just calmed down,
I know how annoying it can be when judging is terrible. However I dont think this is always the case, its just the bad ones you remember.

The worst one I have seen was actually in affiliated showing. We never expected to win the class but were pulled about half way down a large line up, so the judge didn't hate our pony. Our girl did a foot perfect show but when the judge was looking at her she asked our daughter how old she was. Daughter told the truth (15, it wasn't a veteran class) the judge told daughter she should have lied . She then put her last below a pony which had put in a rodeo display, another which ran off during its show and a couple which had wrong legged the whole class.

On the plus side we have had loads of help and encouragement over the years. We started off doing family pony etc and it was only because of the comments and advice from judges (and another forum) that we decided to try to go higher, bought more horses, even brought my old veteran out occasionally

We have had so much pleasure from our showing, its worth the odd annoyance, must be or we wouldn't still be doing it.

Last edited by rtk; 27th May 2008 at 06:12 PM.
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  #6  
Old 27th May 2008, 10:02 PM
lorna01 lorna01 is offline
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I totally agree rtk, I have also had a good old go at showing with some success...you gotta take the bad with the good and enjoy the good rather than dwell on the bad...The world of showing and any other disipline will hopefull be mor fair one day
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  #7  
Old 28th May 2008, 12:42 AM
BIrish BIrish is offline
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OP - I find the Veteran classes even more bonkers than the afflicted stuff.. Had some mad results in VHS classes - culminating in watching a clearly unsound horse win a class at their champs.. I am not a member anymore (plus I am petty - the entries were expensive, we trekked all the way to Arena UK, froze to death and went section reserve champ and didn;t even get a rosette! So scabby!)
Veteran judges have a hard job (no excuse though forplainly pants judging) - horses of varying type/breed in the ring, the only common denominator is age.. and they seem to pretty much ignore horses under 18..

I love my showing - even with the total madness of the judging.. and it doesn't always get better as you go affiliated..

My 19yo TB competed with younger horses up until last year when we moved from the UK - I am ashamed to say that I have on a couple (just a couple)of occasions lied about his age - as I knew the judge would not consider him against the younger horses if his real age was known..

As hack classes here (Ireland) are far and few between he is now doing LW Hunters (!) and TB classes for fun under his real age! The judges here don't seem to discriminate on age

Have a year to go before my Worker/proper LW comes out next season but am already madly excited!

Last edited by BIrish; 28th May 2008 at 12:47 AM.
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  #8  
Old 28th May 2008, 01:42 PM
xloopylozzax xloopylozzax is offline
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personally i dont like veteran showing in general, ok at very local have a go level, but for qualifiers and the like it is silly really (IMHO) if a horse is good enough to show, then you shouldnt need a separate class, if they wouldnt get a look in in a normal class, then they are past their best and should go out on a high not as a crippled 20 something been dragged/pushed around the ring and rugged and corned up to the eyeballs to keep some condition on it.

just my opinion and i can understand why some people might like to do this, but i would never enter a veteran class, unless at a very local show (livery yard type show) and i entered other normal classes aswell and didnt finish bottom of the line, just to boost entrys a bit.
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  #9  
Old 28th May 2008, 05:38 PM
rtk rtk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xloopylozzax View Post
personally i dont like veteran showing in general, ok at very local have a go level, but for qualifiers and the like it is silly really (IMHO) if a horse is good enough to show, then you shouldnt need a separate class, if they wouldnt get a look in in a normal class, then they are past their best and should go out on a high not as a crippled 20 something been dragged/pushed around the ring and rugged and corned up to the eyeballs to keep some condition on it.

just my opinion and i can understand why some people might like to do this, but i would never enter a veteran class, unless at a very local show (livery yard type show) and i entered other normal classes aswell and didnt finish bottom of the line, just to boost entrys a bit.

LOL Wish you could see my 32 year old dragging us around.

Your right though he was never good enough to show and only slowed down enough to make it even slightly safe to try when he was 29.

We love it though, we are very proud that the old git can still run off with us in the ridden, drag us round the in hand (thats assuming he has 4 legs on the floor). And when he happens to behave and we win something he gets far more fuss made of him than the younger ones in far bigger classes

He would be well fed and rugged whether we showed or not, he's the equivalent of 96 in human years and deserves a bit of comfort.

Veteran showing used to be idiot owners like me being really proud of their oldies, its becoming a bit serious now with producers and ex top class show and event horses.

I've posted these before but not to miss an opportunity to show my old man off here he is again. Rocky aged 32, at one of the few shows he behaved at, he won.



Just before he tried to run the judge and stewards over when he decided that gallop shouldn’t be banned in veterans (show jumper from our yard riding ) look at that action for an oldie



Here is the pair of them having a well earned rest after he finally stopped




Last edited by rtk; 28th May 2008 at 05:40 PM.
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  #10  
Old 4th Jun 2008, 09:16 PM
Jenny2502 Jenny2502 is offline
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Wow!!!
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  #11  
Old 5th Jun 2008, 09:57 PM
lorna01 lorna01 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xloopylozzax View Post
personally i dont like veteran showing in general, ok at very local have a go level, but for qualifiers and the like it is silly really (IMHO) if a horse is good enough to show, then you shouldnt need a separate class, if they wouldnt get a look in in a normal class, then they are past their best and should go out on a high not as a crippled 20 something been dragged/pushed around the ring and rugged and corned up to the eyeballs to keep some condition on it.

just my opinion and i can understand why some people might like to do this, but i would never enter a veteran class, unless at a very local show (livery yard type show) and i entered other normal classes aswell and didnt finish bottom of the line, just to boost entrys a bit.
He he he, totally disagree with you there.

its not necessary that older horses have to have a seperate class but it does make it more fun to have other classes to enter too. My pony certaintly aint rugged up and hidden and holds condition really well, any one with horses like that shouldnt be entering any sort of show or competition.

I think its brilliant that there are classes for veterans out there and cant wait till my mum is better and i can gave a go at some affiliated stuff- won arab stuff and want to have a go at something else-unfortunately cant afford a nice expensive horse that will do anything else so the crippled 15 yearold arab it is for me till i win the lottery.

the majority of veterans i know are more firey and forward going, more desire to go that babies he he-dont always judge a book by its cover
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  #12  
Old 7th Jun 2008, 11:47 PM
lorna01 lorna01 is offline
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Does my boy look past it???

http://www.newrider.com/forum/attach...1&d=1212881874
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  #13  
Old 9th Jun 2008, 10:57 AM
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chapsgal chapsgal is offline
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Was your class a local veteran class of was a VHS class?

if local then yes - conformation, manners, turnout, way of going etc are all taken into account - aswell as 'judged preference'

I have a preference in horses personally but I NEVER put my preference into the class, I go for the horse that genuinely did a better show, and fitted all of the above..

If you did a VHS class then yes its a pionts system looking at marks out of 60 for manners, way of going and suppleness for age..
then marks out of 40 for condition, turnout for breed etc..

I always mark as I see the horses, some judges will pick a horse they want to win and 'doctor the points' (ive seen it happen when stewarding/probationing)

this i do NOT do, once I ve dont the points I then mark comparitively as I go along the line..the winner is the one with the highest points THATS IT.

If a VHS show then you dont get marked on conformation.
As for manners, Id expect every horse at 15+ to at least know basic manners..one I judged at weekend was a lovely horse, was 19 and would not stand still, it cantered on trot out..tried biting the handler..etc lots of things let it down and he was at the bottom of the line. I did tell him the marks were lost on manners, but condition etc was all fine..


hope that helps
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