Is bitless an option??

[StephA]

I have been slowly removing all the bits and pieces Spirits last owners sent along with him (martingale, flash ect) and I wondered if I could go one step further and try him bitless?

He is very strong but he doesnt take off with me...he leans on the bit immensly. Its not that he has a problem with bits but I just wondered if I tried him without does that lessen my control?

Like I said, he is very strong and does like to power off if possibly but at the moment he cant actually run off with me...he is in a 3 ring gag at the moment (on the 2nd ring as he hasnt been ridden much and I dont want him running off with me in a fit of excitement...especially with mares coming into season at the moment)

I dont know what he was ridden in in Spain...he is scarred across his nose (where the noseband goes across) and behind his ears from whatever they WERE using and I dont want to bring back any bad memories. He was extremely scared of anything going behind his ears and I have only just got him to trust me putting on his bridle so would a bitless put alot more pressure on his poll and set him back again?

Is bitless an option?

Sorry for the long post

S x x

[MagicSix]

I ride bitless and was quite suprised by how much control I actually had over the horse + they also could not evade it as much (got one horse who would always try and get tounge over bit/open mouth/anything to evade so had all gadgets on like your guy, now ridden bitless and is fine). I ride one in a scrawbrig and one in a hackamore - both give the level of control I need for that horse

Try it in an enclosed area first, see how you and he get on then gradually work your way to less controlled areas eg. hacks. I think you will be suprised as to how much control you can get from a bitless

Good luck

[pedilia]

I think going bitless is trial and error for any horse, it i something I am considering for Storm as he is parrot mouthed, I am borrowing a friends crosspull to see how he goes in the school and will go from there.
I did first try him in just a headcollar with leadropes attached to get an idea of how he would be, is that an option for you?

One point to remember is that different styles of bitless bridles have different actions and apply pressure in varying places so worth researching first

[StephA]

Thanks for the replies.

I honestly dont think I would dare try him in just a headcollar...I value my life

How does the steering work as he does tend to suddenly decide he wants to turn around or if he does get close to the mares he uses all his strength to pull towards them...and his neck is like a (big) bulls.

S x

[xloopylozzax]

if it just the leaning that is an issue, then fix that before moving to bitless because they can still lean on what ever is (or isnt)there.
use half halts and lighten your seat to start with and if that doesnt work drop the reins and suprise them- they might trip/stumble even go down but they wont lean again if this happens and most likely they will just jolt forward and nose nearly hit ground (depending how bad the leaning is obviously)

or lift your hands or bridge the reins and plant your hands on his neck so he is only fighting against himself.

quite easy to fix though, if he is comfortable in his bit anyway i wouldnt change it especially if he doesnt like poll pressure as most bitless bridles have a lot of this.

[StephA]

The leaning isnt really the issue...more a working progess at the moment!

And there is no real reason I am considering other than seeing if there is anything I can do to chill him out when ridden. He does really chomp on his bit and he panics when he is having his bridle taken off and sometimes we have a bit of a tussle getting it out of his mouth...another working progress!!

Just seeing if I can do anything better for him. Although I dont know if poll pressure is going to screw him up.

S x

[xloopylozzax]

if he is improving then i would stick with what you have got, it will only confuse him if he is starting to understand one thing then you change it and he has to start from scratch again.

if he starts having problems or goes backwards then consider bitless but personally iwouldnt
have his teeth been done recently?

[StephA]

Yes they are pristine

I know what you mean about confusing him (its easily done).

Its hard to know what to for the best sometimes...

S x

[No_Angel]

I retrained my ex racer using a bitless, there is no confusion if you train for the different aids, there is no bit so you need to train the stop from nose pressure.

A rope halter is a great place to start, train back, stop and turn with it and then introduce ridden work with it, if you find you need more communication then you can 'upgrade' to another type of bitless, by then you should know how your horse reacts to nose pressure

[wrighty]

Hi Steph,

I had the same problems with my pony evading the bit plus he just was not happy and would shake his head and look uncomfortable. I had his teeth checked and rasped so I know this wasnt the cause.
I looked into going bitless and found the Dr Cooks Bitless Bridle. They have a 30 day guarantee on it so thought I had nothing to lose. Well to cut a long story short, the bitless bridle worked really well and stopped his head shaking and he was easier to control. The Dr Cook works in a different way to the hackamore as it is more of a pushing action rather than poll pressure (think this is right!).
I now alternate between using a happy mouth bit and his bitless as I am not really allowed to compete in certain driving competitions in bitless.

Good luck.

Carrie x

[Yann]

I hack my Tb in a Dr Cook, she can be strong sometimes and I actually have more control bitless as she tends not to drop behind the contact like she does bitted. Both of mine 'got' being bitless pretty much straight away.

However if your horse has had a bad experience with nose and poll pressure (is that contraption called a serrata?) then it might actually be a bad idea as it will act in both those places. With horses being 'into pressure' some will have a tendency to lean on that sort of bitless bridle too, possibly more so than a bit. On the other hand he might just breathe a huge sigh of relief It would be worth a try at the very least I would have thought.

[Sticky's GF]

I haven't ever used a bitless bridle, but there is no harm in trying him. Got to keep experimenting to find out what works for you/your horse.

I didn't know yr chap came from spain? I'm still scarred from my holi in marbella a few yrs back, went to see a spanish horse display but we didn't know the date so turned up at the stables. There they were, must have been about 30 horses in stalls, all scarred across their faces....was awful. When I saw the show I realised why, they are basically strapped into position, a nasty rip off of how to do it properly....

[StephA]

Yup he came over from that exact place about 18 months ago bless him. Was stood in a little tin shed on top of a big hill

Apparently at one point they had wire wrapped round his head in an attempt to make him 'work' to thier standards and strap him down...hateful

Cant really see them on this I dont think...his hair covers alot of them


Yann - Im really not sure what they were using on him or if it even had a name but he does have scars across his nose and round behind his ears. He doesnt seem botheres about his nose but he is touchy about his ears...he is 1000% better than he was though so I just dont know.

I just feel that he would benefit from the least bits and bobs possible...he is just the type of horse who hates clinky, fiddly, in his face stuff if you get me and I feel he is owed the best I can possibly give him.

My try and borrow one and see what happens

S x x

[StephA]

Trying to post a pic but cant flippin work it out!

Its saved on Adobe but I cant find the URL...how do I do it?

S x

[wedney]

Not all bitless bridles use poll pressure.

Mechanical hackamores use the most poll, nose and chin pressure and are the strongest.

Crossunders use pressure around the whole head so pressure on the poll and nose is minimised.

Indian bosals and scawbrigs just use pressure around the nose.

Rope bridles (rope hackamores, the enduro) etc are designed to be used without a contact (neck reining) and are therefore the lightest.

There also bitless bridles which allow the use of a bit to help with the transition to bitless for those who feel nervous about giving up the bit.

With over 30 different bitless bridles on the market there should be something to suit every horse but sometimes it does sometimes take a bit of trial and error to find the right one.

Good luck

[StephA]

HI Wedney...thanks for your help.

Do you have any idea what the 'transition' bitless is called or where I could find one?

That seems a good way to start.

S x

[capalldubh]

With some of the bitless (rope halter for example), you could use your regular bridle with bit, plus the halter and use two sets of reins - so try introducing riding off the pressure and release of the rope halter but still have the regular bridle there as back up until you are sure you are being understood

I use a scawbrig, but it operates entirely off nose pressure (friend pointed out last week it is a bit like curb action but without a bit - when you lift the rein, the noseband tightens slightly). I can see how that might not be something Spirit likes at all - on the other hand, it doesn't hurt (it can't physically get that tight) so he might be fine with it. The Dr. Cook is similar, except that when you lift the rein, it tightens slightly around the whole head. Some horses do not like the feeling of their head being constricted and feel trapped - it's really trial and error (and the Dr. Cook gives you a chance to return it if it really doesn't work).

If you haven't ridden in a rope halter with reins before, you might find it a bit weird and probably worth getting a lesson - but I am considering this for shows where a bridle and bit are required - so just bridle with snaffle and no noseband with a rope halter underneath - regular reins attached to the snaffle and rope reins attached to the halter.

ETA - do a search for Libby's bridles, I think they do one you can use bitless and with a bit?

By the way, saw your pictures of Spirit on the other thread - you should definitely be proud, he is beautiful and if he can come through such a horrible start to life with as few niggles as he has, he is a pretty special boy

[Island_Girl]

About 2 years ago or maybe longer, I changed both my ex polo ponies to Dr Cooks bitless bridles from www.bitlessbridle.co.uk. I tried one of them first and got such good results that I changed the other over.

I used to have awful trouble as both had been used to having harsh bits, standing martingales and even draw reins for control, and they were very evasive when I tried to stop. I tried them over the years in a french-link snaffle, ordinary snaffle, 3 ring snaffle, cheltenham gag and had the same problem with each. Alternating from head in the air, head on the floor, violent head-shaking, tongue over the bit and out of the side of the mouth, etc.

I've only got one of the girls now as the other lost her sight at the end of last year. I now have a traditional cob who I have changed to the Dr Cooks and he goes really well in it as well. I would recommend it to anyone and would use it on any horse.

[StephA]

Thank you...he is a head turner...he loves it haha!

Your right...I think that pressure all around his head would scare him silly...if he pulls on his head collar when tied he freaks so im not sure that would be right for him.

I may see if I can send off for an 'expert' opinion from a company.

I do think he would be ok with nose pressure though...

He does do a fair bit of head shaking and throwing his head down as well Island Girl. I will look up the Dr Cooks

S x x

[Sticky's GF]

Now I know where he came from, I totally know where you are coming from re: less is more. My only concern with a bitless would be that with all the gadgets he had to endure before, spreading the pressure might be too claustrophobic if you know what I mean?

I school/hack my chap (when our RI isn't watching ) in a sprenger dynamic bit (ultra mild slim bit), no noseband and sometimes martingale sometimes not. He seems very happy in this outfit.