Bolshy cob training!

[Lot1983]

Any ideas for groundwork exercises I can do with a bolshy cob? Ideally a DVD or I could watch as I learn much better seeing it done.

She is a dream to ride, BUT she has no respect for you on the ground, if she wants to walk nicely she will, if she wants to get somewhere quickly, well, you can just sort of hold on and prey for the best.

Over the winter I plan to get his perfect and will be popping up during my lunch break so can work with her in-hand up to five days a week (weekend for hacking!!!)

I was thinking about doing clicker training with her? She (being a cob!) is VERY motivated by food so think that this might be the way forward. I want to teach her.

1. Stand when tied up.
2. Stand to mount. (she circles round you or she will stand, pause for a couple of seconds and decide that's it done and move off, I want her to move off when I ask)
3. To lead and stop when I ask her.
4. To respect my space when I'm in her stable or field, as lovely as she is if she wants her head the other side of me I'd prefer her to move and not just push me out the way.
5. I want her to back up with the lightest of touches.

[jaime200679]

Hooray,

Someone else with a bolshy cob!!

Harry was very bolshy when I first got him 3 months ago. Although he still has his moments he has come on leaps and bounds. I have been very consistent with him - very firm (yet kind). I found the key thing to minimising the bolshy behaviour was clearly establishing myself as above him in the herd pecking order. Read somewhere on line that every time you see them you have to re-establish you role as being in charge (my natural instinct is to go and pamper him and spoil him with treats, so have to try not to do that). Also read that an easy way to do this is so start rubbing their withers imitating a horse grooming them (apparently only horses higher in pecking order would approach them and do this!) also if having problems to pinch the backs of their legs imitating a more dominant horse biting them (I only do this very gently though as hate the thought of hurting him!)

Funny because he loves but doesnt respect our YO, who has been far to kind to him, as a result I regularly turn up to hear that Harry has been lead half way across field and decided not to come in, so turned round pulled rope out of hands and galloped off - he hasnt dared try this with me yet and I have never once raised a hand to him! - famous last words, will probably get dragged around tonight

We also have various routines. When ever I open any gate or stable door he has to stand with gate open until he is asked to walk out of it - this took a few weeks of leading him back into it when he decided not to listen and being told no in a very stern voice - definately got the message now. This small step has meant he has started to respect me, he knows that not doing as he is asked results in things taking a lot more time then if he just does it in the first place, he also knows the difference in my tone of voice - stern voice, uh oh he's in trouble.

He is not allowed to walk in my space when being led - many people think this is being nervous, but actually i think its being bolshy and dominant. At first I carried a crop with me and showed it to him (never hit him) if he stepped within arms length of me, now we dont need to bother. I have tried some of the parelli round up techniques with him and this has kind of worked, also lunging at least once a week means that he knows if I ask him to walk or stand then he has to listen to my voice.

All this has meant that generally he no longer walks off when I mount, and is much more responsive to my commands (including back up!)

Definately still has his moments (but thats his lovely cheeky cob temperament that I wouldnt want to change!), but overall he has quickly stopped being rude and bolshy, and is now a lovely cheeky chap!

Sorry about long message, couldnt stop typing

[Lot1983]

No need to apologies, it makes interesting reading!

I’ve only just taken her on part loan (as of yesterday!) so I was already trying to establish walking when I ask and using voice commands, some times she is goods as gold and others she ignores you so I think it’s just a case of being consistent, even if she is good and calm, ask her to walk on or stop when I say so.

As I have loads of time for ground work I might try some really specific training with her but not sure what, I was thinking clicker??

It will be more difficult as you've only got her on part loan - obviously the owner has let her get away with these bad manners so probably won't enforce them when you're not there.
We sorted out the two bolshy cobs we had within days, by the time they left us a 7 year old child could hold, lead and ride them (and still do!).
You have to be very, very forceful with a cob, especially mares, so be dominant from the outset, be bossier than her.
With the leading/stopping when you stop problem, the best way I deal with that is by using either a dually, bridle or, for the bolshiest mare we had a chifney, walking in a straight line and then stop dead. If she runs over the top of you, push her straight back, beyond where you stopped, get her to stand and then walk on. It takes a few goes but they do get it. At first you can really bang your foot down as you stop as the noise often wakes them up. It's all about sharpening her up and getting her focused on you.
Our second mare was awful when tied up, she would just swing about and knock you over and the only way we could deal with it was on a chifney. You could probably do it just on a dually but Livvy was not at all responsive when we got her and was much too far gone to respect any of that! We tied her up to her headcollar as normal on a SHORT rope, with a sliphead over the top with a lunge line on the chifney. We then went about normal business keeping the lungle line in one hand, and everytime she moved we gave a little jerk and said "stand" - within a couple of days she as perfect and only ever needed the voice command again, and very rarely!

To get them respecting your space I like a Dually, start with the walk/stop exercise, then start moving the quarters - she should move them without you touching them - start by pointing a whip at her quarters and simultaneously turning her head and saying "over". If she doesn't move just give her a prod in flank, not hard but just enough to remind her that you are there, and tell her again. When you can do this either way, start with backing up, making sure you release the second she starts doing it, you want her as light as possible in yor hand. I then progress to moving the shoulders over which they find more difficult but it is possible!

For the fidgeting when you want to get on, it's just repetition, repetition, repetition! Have a set process, and every time she moves it starts again. In the end she will get bored and stand still. So even if you're half on and she starts to move, jump off, put her back where you started (that is the most important bit) and start again. She has to realise that it's not getting her anywhere.

Also make sure when you go into her stable she backs up before you open the door, so she knows that it is your space and you don't want her in it!

If you want any more help feel free to PM me, our two have beautiful manners now, but it was a bit of trial and error at first to get it right! good luck with your girl, keep us updated!

[Lot1983]

StormyJ, her owner has basically had her sat in a field all summer, she was worse when they first got her but as she's not done anything she's gone back a little bit. I can borrow a pressure halter and that seems to be the over-riding opinion ATM that I should get her in that. I wouldn't be happy trying her in a chifney to be honest so hopefully the halter will be enough, if I have her tied normally then have another rope attached to the bose band part of the pressure halter??

[wonkeywoody]

www.iceryder.net
click on ground work then on 7 games.

[Madame_Sarah]

I would definitely not use a chiffney bit on any of my horses, regardless of their behaviour - if a horse doesn't want to do something, regardless of how cruel you are to it and how strong a bit you put in its mouth, it won't do what you want it to.

I use the "Equine Ethology" method of La Cense - perhaps you would find that interesting. It first focusses upon personal space/establishing boundaries, then moves on. Standing still is also addressed by asking her to keep moving her feet until she realises that it's easier to keep them still, because you're going to keep moving her hind quarters, or backwards and forwards, until she keeps still.

Try not to think of your "bolshy female cob" as that, try to imagine her as a horse who doesn't understand that you control where she puts her feet, and that she needs to learn not to run you over - that can only come if you prove to her that your "phase 4"/strongest action is far scarier than any other frightening object that might cause her to seek comfort in your space. Your phase 1 suggests, 2 suggests strongly, 3 insists, and 4 insists with more energy; phases 1-3 just remind her of what you're capable of, and the increasing energy builds without getting emotional - she won't understand anything but energy.

Sarah

I think that would work just as well, I only use chifneys as a last resort.
When we got Livvy she was terrible, her old owner was terrified of her and literally let her walk all over her - when she had a potential buyer come to view her, she went to undo the stable door and Livvy bashed it down and ran off! So we really didn't have a choice as she was so rude and bargy. The only other times I've used one was on my loan pony when I was 13, she kept running off on the ground and I wasn't strong enough to stop her in even a bridle, and on Gabe for loading as he rears when he doesn't want to go on and I don't like having 16.3hh of Irish horse above my head!
A pressure halter should be fine on her if she's willing to work with you and responsive enough to respect it.
Good luck!

[Madame_Sarah]

Oh, if you learn best by watching/hands-on approaches, my teacher, Sophie Best, is available for lessons with you and your horse. She has a teaching certificate from La Cense (recognised by the French Association).

www.sophiebest.webs.com is her site; she is reasonably-priced, and happy to travel, as well as being thoroughly knowledgable, experienced and approachable.

Sarah

[Lot1983]

Right going up to the yard at lunch time, I've borrowed a pressure halter and borrowing the instructional DVD to watch this evening! I've also ordered a clicker so might start target training.

wonkeywoody I shall look at the link tonight, work is telling me that site is restricted as it's to do with gambling, very odd (although to be fair my work computer once accused a different horse forum of being porn!!)