Help - he's impossible to lead!

clarabella_78 · #1 18th Oct 2008, 08:49 PM

Having got over (well, kind of) the nappiness when riding, I'm still having issues with leading Murphy. If anything he's getting worse. He will not walk with me, he just plants his feet and won't budge. Tempting him with a treat seems to work, but I don't want to get in the habit of that. He's too big for me to budge by brute force. A slap on the bum with the end of the leadrope gets him going, but it's such a battle I am getting really tired of it. This is both bringing in from the field and putting him back out.

Any thoughts as to what could be causing this? He's done it ever since I got him, some days worse than others. Today he was a nightmare!

lauraandharvey · #2 18th Oct 2008, 08:50 PM

have you had the normal checked? back and teeth mainly

is there something in his field that he doesnt like?
is he been bullied?

charlie1980 · #3 18th Oct 2008, 08:52 PM

when I first brought my big boy you could not lead him anyway at all, he would plant his feet and stand and no pushing and pulling would make him budge, infact one would be one end someone else the other.......

I used to do the leadrope on the bottom, used to sometimes work.

I now turn his head away from me and is needed on a bad day use a schooling whip, normally just carrying it will have him walking, he now leads 95per cent of the time perfectly, but still gets stubborn 5 per cent.
I dont think he had ever been lead properly at all.

clarabella_78 · #4 18th Oct 2008, 08:54 PM

He was vetted when I got him and he's done it since day 1 so I'm confident it's not pain.

I have resorted to carrying my schooling whip, but I just don't like having to do it, I'd rather figure out why he's doing it and sort it out that way.

clarabella_78 · #5 18th Oct 2008, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lauraandharvey

is there something in his field that he doesnt like?
is he been bullied?

A good idea L&H, but would that explain reluctance to leave the field as well as to return to it? I don't see any evidence of bullying or the like, just the usual face pulling at dinner time.

#6 18th Oct 2008, 08:55 PM

Don't tempt him with treats, I know people who started doing that 2 years ago with their 2 year olds and guess what...they're still doing it!

It's rewarding the behaviour you don't want which won't get you anywhere and will cost you a fortune!
The best way I have found is as soon as he stops push him back, you will have to be very bossy with him, make him go quite fast so that you own reverse gear! When he is respecting that, look forwards, walk forwards and (if it were me) give him a tap with a schooling whip. If he doesn't move, give him another one and if he still doesn't walk on then go back to pushing him back, don't just let him stand and move in his own time.
Well done for overcoming his napping problems when ridden BTW

eml · #7 18th Oct 2008, 08:56 PM

Has he ever been taught to lead...it is not a naturally inborn thing. If so how was he taught. We have had endless frustration trying to get a horse to walk with us at its shoulder only to find it had been taught to follow.

lauraandharvey · #8 18th Oct 2008, 08:59 PM

i agree with eml

harvey follows like a puppy.
walk in his field with him?
take him for walks up the track let hm graze ask him to walk on

if you carry a crop
hit your boot not him
xx

clarabella_78 · #9 18th Oct 2008, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eml

Has he ever been taught to lead...it is not a naturally inborn thing. If so how was he taught. We have had endless frustration trying to get a horse to walk with us at its shoulder only to find it had been taught to follow.

Hm - not sure actually. I guess I'm just assuming he knows what he should be doing. I bought him from an RS.

eml · #10 18th Oct 2008, 09:25 PM

Many RS ponies/cobs will be used to being handled as a herd. If led it may have been with lots of others so you need to start leading training from the beginning.

The biggest problem with ex RS ponies is nappiness in one form or another . They just like to work with the herd. We frequently buy in ponies who have been sold from RS to private homes and really don't like it.

clarabella_78 · #11 18th Oct 2008, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eml

Many RS ponies/cobs will be used to being handled as a herd. If led it may have been with lots of others so you need to start leading training from the beginning.

The biggest problem with ex RS ponies is nappiness in one form or another . They just like to work with the herd. We frequently buy in ponies who have been sold from RS to private homes and really don't like it.

Thanks eml, I'll work on it. Any advice on how to start? Not something I've had to do before.

Yann · #12 18th Oct 2008, 09:44 PM

This is a situation where a bit of basic NH type stuff could be very useful, a training halter to give you a bit more say and make your yes and no clearer can make a big difference. There are books by the likes of Kelly Marks or Richard Maxell for example which contain exercises will help you get started.

clarabella_78 · #13 18th Oct 2008, 10:04 PM

Thanks Yann - I'll have a look now.

beating_hooves · #14 18th Oct 2008, 10:21 PM

When he stops, try pulling him at an angle which will mean that he'll lose balance and have to step forward (well diagonal).

Doesn't always work though.

FayeObs · #15 19th Oct 2008, 10:02 AM

I agree with the Stormj comment about treats, they expect it and if anything i think it encorages them to behave like that cause they'll get a reward.

I also agree with the stepping back comment, that reinforcement that youre in charge and control him/her aswell as pushing them to the side by pushing on the top of their neck?

I was reading the other day about napping and one lady suggested (if you have time) standing there until they move? they know exactly where you're wanting especially if its to the same field every day! she was really upbeat about this approach? some of the ones i take to the field dont move, but they're getting better because i dont personally *** bit them, i reward them WHEN i get to the field so they know theyve got to get there first!!!

puzzles · #16 19th Oct 2008, 12:27 PM

Spending time doing groundwork should help enormously: teaching your horse to back up, move sideways, come towards you and yield his hindquarters will all help you when you're leading. Also, picking up his hooves and rotating them slowly will give him the idea that you are his leader, reinforcing this will repetitions of these exercises.
Splash was always tricky leading to and from the field (primarily because he was frightened of the gate and electric fencing), especially towards.
I spent a lot of time teaching him the above exercises (most of which was spent repeating them as he learned very quickly) which all helped to get him to and from the field. No amount of force will work, and mostly likely will make your horse worse as he learns that being led means a difficult time for him. You need to make it into a positive experience for your horse, he can't learn when he's stressed and emotional.
x

clarabella_78 · #17 19th Oct 2008, 03:38 PM

Thanks Puzzles, I agree - carrying on like this will only make things worse. I'll try some groundwork exercises and let you know how it goes.

Skippys Mum · #18 19th Oct 2008, 04:42 PM

I bought a Monty Roberts dually headcollar which comes with a dvd and some instructions. I then did a bit of in hand work - moving backwards, sideways, stopping and starting when I did - and he is now much much better behaved, not just in hand but in general.

got to be worth a try

Cazie · #19 19th Oct 2008, 06:39 PM

Don't get into a tug of war with him.. he'll always win and if he is being obstinate, the more you pull, the more he'll say no.. it has to be his idea to move forwards.... when he plants himself, don't automatically tighten the rope, but keep it loose and immediately be there with the schooling whip, to reinforce that you would like him to move forwards.

Never allow him to graze as was suggested, you'll only end up with more problems.

I'd definitely go along the lines of the NH route

Good luck.

Sticky's GF · #20 19th Oct 2008, 06:57 PM

I can highly recommend a pressure halter, the thin rope variety (they are not expensive).

My horse used to be nappy under saddle, we overcame that, but he was v bad (and still has his moments) in hand, i.e. if he is the first to come in from the field (10 horses together) or if there are several on the yard and I want to turn him out before the others he makes a bit of a fuss and tries to plant himself.

This is where the pressure halter comes into its own. Whereas before he used to plant and if I pulled he pulled harder and went backwards, or at worse reared up, now it is just not quite comfortable enough for him to pull against me so he might resist for a few seconds but then off he moves again, and as soon as he does the pressure is released.