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  #1  
Old 17th Feb 2009, 04:27 PM
martinez martinez is offline
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How heavy is a IFOR WILLIAMS trailer?

Does any body know how heavy an Ifor Williams trailer is, the one at my yard can carry two horses. hoping to tow it ?
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  #2  
Old 17th Feb 2009, 04:28 PM
igloo igloo is offline
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Depends on the model:

http://www.iwt.co.uk/products/horse.htm
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  #3  
Old 17th Feb 2009, 04:35 PM
ameliet1971 ameliet1971 is offline
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I've got an Ifor Williams 505 Classic at it's unladen weight is 675kg. I can legally tow my 16.2hh TB with our Skoda Roomster 1.9TDI that has a legal towing capacity of 1,200kg.
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  #4  
Old 17th Feb 2009, 04:54 PM
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Ummm, the legal towing weight of a vehicle has nothing to do with the actual weight of the trailer+horse or the unladen weight, it is to do with the MGW/plated weight so you actually can't legally tow with your Skoda.....

It may sound daft but regardless of the fact you never tow that actual weight you will be classed as uninsured if you do tow
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  #5  
Old 17th Feb 2009, 05:15 PM
martinez martinez is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sophini View Post
Ummm, the legal towing weight of a vehicle has nothing to do with the actual weight of the trailer+horse or the unladen weight, it is to do with the MGW/plated weight so you actually can't legally tow with your Skoda.....

It may sound daft but regardless of the fact you never tow that actual weight you will be classed as uninsured if you do tow
-----------------------------------------------------
Ok thanks, new to towing. so what and how do you find the MGW/plated weight?
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  #6  
Old 17th Feb 2009, 05:31 PM
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Sophini Sophini is offline
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go to page 14 on this link http://www.iwt.co.uk/brochures/nhb.pdf which lists the maximum gross weight of the brand new Ifor williams

Or this website lists the slightly older versions http://www.horsetrailersales.co.uk/NewIforHB505.htm

So if the trailer your looking at is an Ifor willams 505 (one of the most common) it's MGW is 2340kgs. You then need to find how much your car/4x4 can tow which you can usually get from the manufacturers website...you wouldn't be able to use a Land Rover Freelander for example as it can only legally tow up to 2000kg but you can tow with a Jeep Cherokee which can tow up to 2800kg Guess what i just bought
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  #7  
Old 17th Feb 2009, 05:57 PM
ameliet1971 ameliet1971 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sophini View Post
Ummm, the legal towing weight of a vehicle has nothing to do with the actual weight of the trailer+horse or the unladen weight, it is to do with the MGW/plated weight so you actually can't legally tow with your Skoda.....

It may sound daft but regardless of the fact you never tow that actual weight you will be classed as uninsured if you do tow
We actually contacted trading standards with all the information they required before purchasing the Ifor Williams trailer.

They assured us we CAN legally tow the Classic with our TB on board, and that's good enough for me.
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  #8  
Old 17th Feb 2009, 06:06 PM
MrKia+Me MrKia+Me is offline
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If the ifor is a 505 model then the max weight that can travel is 2340kgs as plated on the A frame at the front of the trailer (well thats what mines is and mines is a 505 hunter)

You can have the trailer replaited if you wish.

Nikki xxxx
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  #9  
Old 17th Feb 2009, 08:05 PM
wonkeywoody wonkeywoody is offline
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Quote:
They assured us we CAN legally tow the Classic with our TB on board, and that's good enough for me.
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I think you should check with your insurance company. As correctly said already, the Freelander is not legal, and it is a much bigger, heavier vehicle than the Roomster!
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  #10  
Old 17th Feb 2009, 08:08 PM
Niv2 Niv2 is offline
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I think you will find it depends on whether you driving licence is just B or B+E. If you are B And this will be anyone who has passed their test since 1997, then there are strict limitations on what you can tow and then MAM comes into play. If you passed your test prior to 1997 or have taken a supplementary test to get the "E" on your licence, then you do not need to have your trailer "plated" etc and the regs are a little less rigorous.

It is very difficult to sort out the regs as they have not been presented in an easy to understand way, but this is my understanding.

Thus ameliet1971 may be ok with her skoda but i fear that the weight of the IW 505 is nearer 900kgs so with a 16.2hh TB in it weighing approx 500 - 550 kgs, she will be over the towing limit for that car.
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  #11  
Old 17th Feb 2009, 08:12 PM
wonkeywoody wonkeywoody is offline
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Quote:
And this will be anyone who has passed their test since 1997, then there are strict limitations on what you can tow and then MAM comes into play
As this is a safety regulation then surely it doesnt matter when you passed your driving test, (and got trailer test as necessary) it is there because the towing vehicle has not only to be capable of actually pulling and stopping the towed weight but also holding the road if a trailer goes snaking etc behind you?
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  #12  
Old 17th Feb 2009, 08:27 PM
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Nookster Nookster is offline
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My understanding is passed after 97 - need tow test and can't tow anything over 3.5 tonne which doesn't cover horse trailers unless replated.

As standard for all towers no matter when you passed the rule of car must be able to tow the MAM of the trailer applys. So discovery can tow 3500kg and trailer MAM 2600kg this combination would be legal. A vehicle with only tow capacity of 2000kg towing a trailer of 2600kg would not be legal.


ameliet1971 - would look again at your combination as afraid is not legal - not the unladen weight that needs considered in the calculation but the MAM whether carrying no horses, one or two horses. The vehicle has to be more or equal to the MAM of the trailer.
Not sure trading standards info is correct - best contacting DVLA, Police and your insurance company for valid information - sadly these are the ones that will be prosecuting you if anything happened
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  #13  
Old 17th Feb 2009, 09:32 PM
Niv2 Niv2 is offline
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Originally Posted by Nookster View Post
My understanding is passed after 97 - need tow test and can't tow anything over 3.5 tonne which doesn't cover horse trailers unless replated.

As standard for all towers no matter when you passed the rule of car must be able to tow the MAM of the trailer applys. So discovery can tow 3500kg and trailer MAM 2600kg this combination would be legal. A vehicle with only tow capacity of 2000kg towing a trailer of 2600kg would not be legal.
No. MAM only applies to those who passed test after 1997. From 1 January 1997, new category B (generally held as 'normal' car entitlement) vehicles may be coupled with a trailer up to 750kg Maximum Authorised Mass allowing a combined weight of up to 4.25 tonnes MAM OR a trailer (for example a tourer) over 750kg MAM provided the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle, and the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes MAM. This would mean that many drivers who possess only a category B on their licence would be able to tow a trailer provided it was not heavier than their car, and that car and caravan combined, does not weigh more than 3.5 tonnes.

This does not apply to those who passed it before this time or who have taken supplementary test where the MAM of the trailer can exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle providing that the total weight being towed does not exceed the weight of the towing vehicle.... the way the regulations are explained and set out are not clear or easy to understand.
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  #14  
Old 17th Feb 2009, 09:37 PM
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Haven't you just said what i said?

It basic terms the max capacity of the trailer has to be equal to or less then the max of the tow vehicle if your towing
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  #15  
Old 18th Feb 2009, 05:07 AM
BlueWicked BlueWicked is offline
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ameliet1971, you are definately NOT legal. See my sticky thread on towing laws.

The DVLA will only advise about B+ E requirments.... (they are after all, just the licensing body ;

You need to speak to VOSA regarding the legalities of the weight ratios of your tow vehicle & trailer. It is VOSA who may pull you in and stop you at a checkpoint.
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  #16  
Old 18th Feb 2009, 07:29 AM
Niv2 Niv2 is offline
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Originally Posted by Nookster View Post
Haven't you just said what i said?

It basic terms the max capacity of the trailer has to be equal to or less then the max of the tow vehicle if your towing
I heard you and you are correct in what you say up to a point.....this applies if you only have a Cat B licence (ie a licence gained after 1 Jan 1997. If you only have a cat B licence then the following applies:- Motor vehicles with a MAM not exceeding 3500kg having not more than eight passenger seats with a trailer up to 750kg. Combinations of towing vehicles in category B and a trailer, where the MAM of the combination does not exceed 3500kg and the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen mass of the towing vehicle.

However, if you have a Cat B + E licence ie passed your test before 1 Jan 1997 or have taken a supplementary test to gain Cat E, then you are permitted to drive any combination of car trailer (providing that the gross weight towed does not exceed the towing capacity of the vehicle) as follows:- Combinations of vehicles consisting of a vehicle in category B and a trailer, where the combination does not come within category B.

This can all be found on http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring...ons/DG_4022547
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  #17  
Old 18th Feb 2009, 07:49 AM
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Nookster Nookster is offline
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Originally Posted by BlueWicked View Post
It is VOSA who may pull you in and stop you at a checkpoint.
I never used to believe that VOSA did this you know – never saw them in 11 years on the road so to say. UNTIL the other month on the A71 into Edinburgh – they had set up a checking point in a lay-by and had numerous vehicles stopped to check including a horse trailer combination! Was rather surprised but confirmed what I didn’t think was true does happen. Was having a good rubber necking session

Quote:
Originally Posted by Niv2 View Post
I heard you and you are correct in what you say up to a point.....
Read your post and agree with what your saying but do feel we are just re iterating each other in different forms
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Last edited by Nookster; 18th Feb 2009 at 07:51 AM.
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  #18  
Old 18th Feb 2009, 08:00 AM
Niv2 Niv2 is offline
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Nookster.....point well made regarding our discussions!....the DVLA have made it an overly complicated system to understand....it would have been far better to have restricted drivers who passed their test after 1 Jan 1997 to tow single axle unbraked trailers only and to insist on a further test if they wanted to tow a braked trailer instead of having all the complicated calculations regarding MAM

There I have said my bit and now I will be quiet on this subject!

Regards!
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  #19  
Old 18th Feb 2009, 09:51 AM
ameliet1971 ameliet1971 is offline
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I would just like to thank you all for drawing my attention to the legal weight limits when pulling a trailer.

When I contacted Trading Standards and they confirmed my car was legally capable of towing the Ifor Williams Classic, I had no reason to doubt them untill now!!!!

Thanks to their unreliable information, I've been putting my both my own and my horse's welfare at risk each time I've travelled him in it, and that really annoys me.

It now looks like putting my Roomster in part exchange for a vehicle that IS capable of pulling my IW.

Many, many thanks to you all once again, because without your advice I would have been none the wiser untill I either had an accident or the police pulled me over!!!!
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  #20  
Old 18th Feb 2009, 12:46 PM
BlueWicked BlueWicked is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nookster View Post
I never used to believe that VOSA did this you know – never saw them in 11 years on the road so to say. UNTIL the other month on the A71 into Edinburgh – they had set up a checking point in a lay-by and had numerous vehicles stopped to check including a horse trailer combination! Was rather surprised but confirmed what I didn’t think was true does happen. Was having a good rubber necking session
D
lol, (jumps up & down going. "SEEEeeeee!" ) ha ha, they are ALWAYS on the A90

ameliet1971; - so glad to hear someone who finally listens , thanks for your nice words... after all, the only reason i started harping on about it (&got the sticky put up) was because i was attempting to help people having been caught out myself & ending up doing DAYS of researching to get to the truth I just wanted to maybe save others going though all that bloomin hassle
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