Gaining a neglected horses trust & re building his interest

crabbypatty · #1 14th Jul 2009, 03:54 PM

I have a welfare case a TB age 9 years - have had him 2 weeks now, making great progress appearance wise and he is enjoying the attention , i am fussin over him greatly - continuously rubbing in lotions & potions etc into his wounds and scabby area's but he does give confusing messages but mostly he seems to love it, but not when he is enjoying his feed i guess he wants to just concentrate on his meal! Also i notice if i lower my head near to his muzzle he really doesnt like that, puts his ears back and looks like he may nip but hasnt as yet, i am trying to make friends with him e.g blowing gently up his nostrils and chatting softly but he isnt having any of it at this stage - I wonder why this is? I think i may be invading his personal space and he is not sure of me, would anyone agree on this? Ex racehorse so is used to having everything done with him nothing spooks him including the hosepipe and fly spray etc But today we had a breakthrough he actually did gallop up across the field excitedly when he saw me and i was not holding a bucket or anything! Was a real Black Beauty moment! Its early days i know and i do have the time & patience to give to him as he will be a cracking horse when fit mentally & physically, i just want to make a real bond with him. He was left in a field for 2 years and for 8 months of that noone went anywhere near him including the other horses, they ignored him totally, he was always stood aside from them all on his own, his mental state went down so much he never even looked to see anything going on around him even, e.g when the other owners at the livery yard came to get their horses in, he did not look their way or try to follow etc ( A lady at he yard he was at kindly gave me this info confidentially after he was removed) do feel this will have more effect on him long term than his physical wellbeing will have, as he is startin to gain weight and look better already. His mood has lifted noticeably but i want to really bring him alive. He is having 3 medium feeds a day, a vitamin supplement plus a probiotic supplement to sort out his gut. unlimited hay when in the stable during day beacause of the flies etc he loves his time in the stable, reluctant to come out again but that is improving greatly, i just stand in front of him with long lead rein and talk to him, eventually he just walks on. Hooves are in a terrible state, have had them trimmed but it will be a long time several terrible cracks almost upto the coronet band, cornucrescine rubbed in daily. I hear Biotin is good. Suggestions, advice all gratefully recieved. Thank you.

lisa+pilgrim · #2 14th Jul 2009, 04:24 PM

id say its just early days, you said he cut himself off from everything, people and horses, so its probably just that he enjoys his own company, it will take time for him to get use to having to share his life with you, when i bought pill, bit diff in sercumstances, he was unhandled and raw as they come, but i just sat and read in the stable with him for two weeks and waited for him to come to me, that way i knew i wasnt asking too much and he wanted my company.
i certainly wouldnt worry, he might just want to take it slowly and it has only been 2 weeks but you sound like youv bonded alraedy, id just give him some space when feeding atm just while your sussing each other out but i do agree, i like to be able to do what ever i need while they feed but you might just need to give him more time.
keep up the good work and keep us posted on your progress and WHERES THE PICS

Francis Burton · #3 14th Jul 2009, 05:01 PM

I'm so glad you have the time to take things slowly are prepared to be patient - that will definitely help!

You're on the right track, doing all the right things by the sound of it.

Lots of horses like to be left alone while they're eating, especially if they feel insecure (worried they might lose their food). I wouldn't worry about, and just leave him in peace at mealtimes.

Does he have an itchy spot, and have you found it? Finding where a horse likes to be scritched and then making his lip wibble is a great bonding activity.

Some horses don't like people blowing up their nostrils, so I wouldn't push that just in case. Find out what he's comfortable with - often benefit comes from simply being close and relaxed.

When you start to teach him things like leading and following, you might want to use more positive forms of training rather than putting a lot of pressure on him. Even if this seems less incisive and gets results rather slowly at first, it will be worth it in terms of building your relationship. You need to continue to be as sensitive to his emotional reactions and mood changes as you obviously are now, and keep working to strengthen the positive ones. As you learn what produces negative reactions, you can think about ways to work around them and to avoid making them worse. If you really need him to get something done or taught, being quietly persistent is the best way to do that, if possible. It will get easier as time goes on and eventually you will get away with being a bit more pushy and impatient - not that you really want to be pushy and impatient!

Hoof cracks - I'd caution against over-use of cornucrescine for this as it is a blister and can make the outer wall of the hoof grow too quickly. Maybe it's not such a risk with vertical cracks, but I have seen hoof separation occurring after cornucresine was used to treat a horizontal crack near the coronary band. Biotin is good - it will strengthen the whole hoof - I'd look for a supplement that also contains lysine and methionine.

That's just a few ideas.. I'm sure there will be many others. I wish you the best of luck with your TB!

amberleystar · #4 14th Jul 2009, 07:52 PM

Sounds like he's found a lovely home with you! Sounds like you are doing all the right things too, but he needs lots and lots of time. Take everything really really slowly and spend lots of undemanding time with him - time where you can just 'be' like horses do with each other in the field, a very good way to bond with a horse. He has to learn to trust all over again. And he doesn't know how good life can get yet, I'm guessing a lot of his experiences have been rather negative ones. You'll look back on this in a years time and realise how far you've both come. Enjoy the journey and all that it teaches you...

crabbypatty · #5 15th Jul 2009, 12:20 PM

Thank you all so much, i am new on here and am finding people so kind & helpful, i have had horses & ponies all my life but find there is always more to learn and also i have never had a TB of my own before TB X - yes - but maybe this will be a whole new ballgame for me, all advise gratefully accepted! Have exercised perfectly behaved TB's for other people but its different. I am going to try just sitting in the stable or field with a book, see what he makes of that. If he were a person i would say he is depressed, i hope its no more than that altho thats bad enough. He does always look very pleased to see me now, so thats big progress i think! he soon loses interest in me again but at least its there initially! Shall cut down on the cornucrescine and research hoof supplements possibly Biotin. Shall try to put a couple of Before & After pics on here tonight, see if anyone can notice a difference, i can but it maybe me being hopeful.

Have renamed him Phoenix, fresh start etc

crabbypatty · #6 15th Jul 2009, 12:26 PM

Thanks so much shall look for that itchy spot! Have found it with my sons pony he relaxes so much he leans on me! What a great idea, shall try behind the ears first....

specaloo · #7 16th Jul 2009, 10:30 AM

Hi, I`ve just found my new boys itchy spot too (under his thick afro mane)!

& it`s certainly helped us bond. He wasn`t quite as neglected as your boy sounds, but when he came to me 6weeks ago, he was a little underweight had a dull coat, full of scurvy, a split lip,full of scars & marks from bad fitting tack & what looked like whip marks on his sides,

He was also fairly headshy but has improved hugely since I`ve had him, although he still pulls back when trying to put his bridle on, once it`s on tho he`s very relaxed! He didn`t like kisses on his muzzle either but has come round to those aswell!!
It`s been a wake up call for me though as I`m used to 16yrs+ ploddy old cobs who u can do anything with & now I have a 4yr old fairly green li`l man!

I`d like to do clicker training with him too but he`s a bit food aggressive so have to find other means of reward! He also, like yours, gets agitated when he`s eating his dinner so I just stand quietly & un-obtrusively facing away from him at his stable door, hopefully he`ll get the message that he doesn`t have to fight for his food or that it`s not getting taken away from him!

Anyway, Best of luck with your boy, you`ll get there eventually!! can`t wait to see before & after pics, I`m goin to try get some of Toby on his 1st day here, then some of now too! :O)

crabbypatty · #8 16th Jul 2009, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by specaloo

Hi, I`ve just found my new boys itchy spot too (under his thick afro mane)!

& it`s certainly helped us bond. He wasn`t quite as neglected as your boy sounds, but when he came to me 6weeks ago, he was a little underweight had a dull coat, full of scurvy, a split lip,full of scars & marks from bad fitting tack & what looked like whip marks on his sides,

He was also fairly headshy but has improved hugely since I`ve had him, although he still pulls back when trying to put his bridle on, once it`s on tho he`s very relaxed! He didn`t like kisses on his muzzle either but has come round to those aswell!!
It`s been a wake up call for me though as I`m used to 16yrs+ ploddy old cobs who u can do anything with & now I have a 4yr old fairly green li`l man!

I`d like to do clicker training with him too but he`s a bit food aggressive so have to find other means of reward! He also, like yours, gets agitated when he`s eating his dinner so I just stand quietly & un-obtrusively facing away from him at his stable door, hopefully he`ll get the message that he doesn`t have to fight for his food or that it`s not getting taken away from him!

Anyway, Best of luck with your boy, you`ll get there eventually!! can`t wait to see before & after pics, I`m goin to try get some of Toby on his 1st day here, then some of now too! :O)

Wow thanks that has really helped me, have not found the itchy spot 2day but only tried the obvious behind the ears and the forehead etc altho he does relax a bit, but he looks very happy to see me now which is lovely, he is food obsessive too as yours is, i presume he wasnt used to gettin much if any, he is funny when eatin - grabs at the food, diggin in takin several snatches at once and gettin so much in his mouth he cant possibly chew it and it falls out again. Good luck with your boy, its so sad when these horses get a bad start but if they can get a fresh start with us then its all worth waiting for i guess

specaloo · #9 17th Jul 2009, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crabbypatty

, he is food obsessive too as yours is, i presume he wasnt used to gettin much if any, he is funny when eatin - grabs at the food, diggin in takin several snatches at once and gettin so much in his mouth he cant possibly chew it and it falls out again.

Hahahaaaaa, & Toby,

but he stuffs a few mouthfuls in then turns away as if he`s been caught doin something naughty!! the people who sold him said he was only on grass & hay so maybe he just knows he`s onto a good thing & wants to make sure he gets ALL of it!! one thing i have done with him though (not sure if it will help in the long run) is before i give him his dinner i make him back up away from me, even just a step, just to learn his manners, it`s worked so far!

quarryhorse · #10 18th Jul 2009, 07:27 AM

Hi there,

He sounds a lucky boy to have found a caring sensitive home at last.

Like you say it is early days and it sounds like he has been quite depressed and this will take a good while to lift. We have recentily taken on a rescue pony who is nervous of people and underweight etc having been tethered by chain for the last year on a gypsy camp and deprived of grazing and water. We are taking things VERY slowly with him. Scratches are working wonders with him and have been the tool I have used to start the process of him learning that human touch can be pleasurable and of value. Your boy may not like you going to the end of his nose as he can't see you well there and as it is early days he probably doesn't yet trust enough for you to go in areas where he can't see what you're doing.

I agree with Francis Burton about the positive approach he has mentioned and this is what we are doing with our little rescue.

Good luck with him and above all, enjoy your time slowly making friends with him and try to avoid rushing things.

crabbypatty · #11 22nd Jul 2009, 10:35 PM

Thank you Quarryhorse, have had a breakthrough the last couple of days, he is nuzzling me, didnt do that before. Have also found out sadly today whilst trying to trace his history that as well as being very neglected in his last home he also was neglected terribly at the home before that as well & arrived full of redworm at his last home where it all went downhill again after a good start, no wonder its taking a while poor soul. I hope there is no long term worm damage and thats why he is depressed (lethargic etc). Took a lovely photo of him today literally galloping flat out up the field to see me, he does this everyday now & whinnies to me, so i think real progress is being made! Good luck with your sweet pony, if only they could talk.... But then again, i dont think i could bear it bless them....

Salsero's mum · #12 23rd Jul 2009, 12:01 PM

Hi. So glad things are starting to settle, am new to this message board so am having to read all the messages to get the picture! My horse didn't like me putting my face close to his muzzle at first, the smells of coffee,meat, herbs etc must have been very alien to an animal with such a sensitive sense of smell - he will let you know when he trusts you enough to get that close. Have you tried looking on the Intelligent Horsemanship website to see if there is a Reccomended Associate near you?

crabbypatty · #13 23rd Jul 2009, 09:30 PM

Thank you, dreadful news today tho, good job we dont know *** the next day will bring, damn barb wire, basically will take at least 3 months for him to heal, laser treatment allsorts, completely shredded his hind legs, am so gutted, poor Phoenix

specaloo · #14 23rd Jul 2009, 09:39 PM

Ohhh Noooo...god how horrible for you both

hope he recovers ok...x

Salsero's mum · #15 24th Jul 2009, 08:47 AM

Horses eh? bit of an extreme way not to get turned out in the field. There is a positive side to most things though. being an ex racehorse he will be used to being in and you will be able to form a really strong bond with him and as he recovers you can start his retraining as a ridden horse from scratch. Get some professional advice on his diet, as you want him to gain condition slowly but not get stupid while he's in. My horse spent nine months on box rest due to a ligament injury, I had some products from Indian Herbs Equine which really helped keep him sane and helped his recovery no end. Walking him twice a day was hard work but at least I wasn't on the poo-picking rota!

Francis Burton · #16 24th Jul 2009, 04:40 PM

Oh, what an awful thing to happen!

Damn barb wire indeed! My TB Lucky managed to scape his side quite badly as a 2yo in a field that had dry stone walls most of the way round and just a short stretch of barbed wire. It's such pernicious stuff and with thoroughbreds being above average accident prone, it's not really a surprise when it happens - but still heartbreaking and infuriating. After that I was careful to avoid grass livery in farmers' fields with barb wire. Fortunately no serious damage was done and Lucky made a full recovery. But it did take some weeks of tending wounds - and we got through a couple of canisters of purple spray (in the days when 'purple spray' contained a real antibiotic).

Anyway, I hope Phoenix heals as fast as possible and that you can turn this incident into an opportunity to strengthen your bond with him and to get him comfortable about being handled.